Swiss 146 engine explodes at London City
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Just out of interest
Sooooooo, heard a lot of stuff on here.
Is there much/any evidence of personal items being pilfered/stolen from aircraft that have had to evacuate??
Concrete evidence, from YOUR experience, not second hand ("I had a friend who...")
As I say, just curious.....
Is there much/any evidence of personal items being pilfered/stolen from aircraft that have had to evacuate??
Concrete evidence, from YOUR experience, not second hand ("I had a friend who...")
As I say, just curious.....
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"Just for the record, If I'm standing waiting for people in front of me to get out, I see no fire then I'm probably going to take my bag.""
Like the bloke on QF32 ?
From memory didn't one of the CC take the bag and throw it across the cabin when the passenger didn't comply with instructions ?????
Like the bloke on QF32 ?
From memory didn't one of the CC take the bag and throw it across the cabin when the passenger didn't comply with instructions ?????
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There is one further reason why all the doors were opened; It creates a through draught of breathable air in the case of a fire.
The Manchester aircraft had both its back doors closed, and that was the region of maximum fatalities.
Ooh, and I think those who are really 'Professional' would want to be the last to leave the plane, after making sure no-one was left stuck in their seat.
The Manchester aircraft had both its back doors closed, and that was the region of maximum fatalities.
Ooh, and I think those who are really 'Professional' would want to be the last to leave the plane, after making sure no-one was left stuck in their seat.
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Having never been on a 146, I have no idea how large the overhead bins are. But I suspect that the standard roll aboard bags need to be gate checked like a CRJ. So it is entirely possible that people simply exited the bag with stuff that was either on their lap or at their feet. Maybe in some instances, taking it actually helps the person sitting next to you avoid tripping over it?
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For those intent on taking their cary-on luggage with them. British Airtours Flight 28M was mentioned earlier. I'd like to go back a bit further.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Jane_Harrison
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOAC_Flight_712
Pay particular attention to the bit about Katriel Katz.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Jane_Harrison
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOAC_Flight_712
Pay particular attention to the bit about Katriel Katz.
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"Ooh, and I think those who are really 'Professional' would want to be the last to leave the plane, after making sure no-one was left stuck in their seat."
No! They don't WANT to be. What they WANT is to get as far away from the aeroplane as possible. What they WANT is to save themselves. What they WANT is to go home that night and hug their kids. What they DO is stand there, yelling commands, coordinating the evacuation and getting bloody frustrated at people who waste time (their own and ultimately the crews') by dragging their bags and clobber to the exit, only to stand there in dull surprise, wondering how they're going to get themselves plus luggage down the slide!
No! They don't WANT to be. What they WANT is to get as far away from the aeroplane as possible. What they WANT is to save themselves. What they WANT is to go home that night and hug their kids. What they DO is stand there, yelling commands, coordinating the evacuation and getting bloody frustrated at people who waste time (their own and ultimately the crews') by dragging their bags and clobber to the exit, only to stand there in dull surprise, wondering how they're going to get themselves plus luggage down the slide!
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RobertS
Swiss usually manage fit a full load of pax and their carry-on in the cabin but its a tight squeeze especially if your seated under the wing. I travel frequently between Zurich and City and can tell you the 146 is usually rammed full of pax with jackets, overcoats, laptops, briefcases, trollies, ridiculously oversized umbrellas and shopping bags galore.
Swiss usually manage fit a full load of pax and their carry-on in the cabin but its a tight squeeze especially if your seated under the wing. I travel frequently between Zurich and City and can tell you the 146 is usually rammed full of pax with jackets, overcoats, laptops, briefcases, trollies, ridiculously oversized umbrellas and shopping bags galore.
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"by dragging their bags and clobber to the exit, only to stand there in dull surprise, wondering how they're going to get themselves plus luggage down the slide!"
And when they hit the concrete at a higher velocity than normal because of the extra weight of the bag and not being able to prepare for "landing", no wonder people get injured.
And in regards to your first part,, takes courage to stand and wait.
And when they hit the concrete at a higher velocity than normal because of the extra weight of the bag and not being able to prepare for "landing", no wonder people get injured.
And in regards to your first part,
, takes courage to stand and wait.
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Personally I'd ban duty free booze from aircraft luggage, you have the injury possibility from flying bottles in a crash, fire risk, extra fuel burn etc, sell it at the departure airport by all means, but make it a voucher redeemable at your destination.
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Custodial Sentences for Accident Victims! That should work well ...
Interesting to note so-called aviation professionals baying for lengthy "custodial sentences" to be imposed upon passengers unfortunate enough to be caught up in a terrifying evacuation situation. Increasingly we see media witch-hunts and public vendettas in pursuit of "revenge" sentences against aircrew, marine crew, bus / train drivers, ATC staff etc who have the misfortune to be involved in an accident. I strongly believe that a decent society should resist this lust for revenge punishments unless true criminal activity (eg. drunkenness, drug-abuse) is a causal factor in the accident.
However, if instead we as an industry advocate an environment in which Captain Hitler of Pol Pot Airways campaigns to have his panicked PASSENGERS incarcerated for picking up a bag … well, what chance has common sense got where aircrew arrests / charges are concerned? Do you really want a vindictive society in which aircrew and passengers lobby to see each other jailed following tragic accidents? Think about what you are saying, and be very careful what you wish for.
However, if instead we as an industry advocate an environment in which Captain Hitler of Pol Pot Airways campaigns to have his panicked PASSENGERS incarcerated for picking up a bag … well, what chance has common sense got where aircrew arrests / charges are concerned? Do you really want a vindictive society in which aircrew and passengers lobby to see each other jailed following tragic accidents? Think about what you are saying, and be very careful what you wish for.
Last edited by Shed-on-a-Pole; 30th Mar 2014 at 02:56.
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Luggage and elbows in the cabin
Hi guys and girls!
I used to be cabin crew for SWISS, and have deadheaded or flown privately on this 4-engine aircraft which is lovingly known as the "Jumbolino". It's quite narrow inside and when it is max PAX (which on London flights it usually is) then it is already tight to get through during boarding. I can't imagine what it was like during evacuation when everyone got up AND took their luggage out! Surely there were elbows and bags going into each other's ribs! However, until they REALLY understand the imminent danger of an evacuation, they will not abandon their bags. The "90 secs" rule is something they just don't (want to) grasp. Perhaps it should be part of the in-flight video: "Remember, in the case of an evacuation, you have exaclty 90 seconds before we blow up." Lol.
Also, hats off to my ex.colleagues at SWISS: I now they are very serious about safety and did an excellent job in the cockpit and cabin to keep everyone safe!
I used to be cabin crew for SWISS, and have deadheaded or flown privately on this 4-engine aircraft which is lovingly known as the "Jumbolino". It's quite narrow inside and when it is max PAX (which on London flights it usually is) then it is already tight to get through during boarding. I can't imagine what it was like during evacuation when everyone got up AND took their luggage out! Surely there were elbows and bags going into each other's ribs! However, until they REALLY understand the imminent danger of an evacuation, they will not abandon their bags. The "90 secs" rule is something they just don't (want to) grasp. Perhaps it should be part of the in-flight video: "Remember, in the case of an evacuation, you have exaclty 90 seconds before we blow up." Lol.
Also, hats off to my ex.colleagues at SWISS: I now they are very serious about safety and did an excellent job in the cockpit and cabin to keep everyone safe!
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The problem is that the airlines want as much as possible of the cargo space free for profitable freight, and for many passengers this now means that the more they can get in the cabin the less they have to pay in surcharges. If they CAN grab their bags they will. The BCs might not be keen on smaller overhead lockers as that would cut freight capacity.
Perhaps corporate bean counters should admit to some responsibility for this behaviour.
Yeah I know, "dream on"!
Perhaps corporate bean counters should admit to some responsibility for this behaviour.
Yeah I know, "dream on"!
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At the lower cost end of the market, it's nothing to do with freight, because they don't carry any. It's about reducing airport service costs and time on the ground. Bags in the hold take time and money to load and unload.
Avoid imitations
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This airline travel sounds far too dangerous for my liking. They treat you like a criminal, take half your stuff off you then charge you a fortune to buy exactly the same things, herd you like cattle, cram you into seat next to some fat sweaty bloke, the engines blow to smithereens, then you go to jail for getting off in a hurry.
Happy holidays, chaps.
Happy holidays, chaps.
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500N
And when they hit the concrete at a higher velocity than normal because of the extra weight of the bag
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Fortunately, during my life I have spent time and effort remaining fit, strong and healthy.
The result of this is that I am likely to be sprightly when exiting the burning aircraft.
Some people have led sedentary lives. They are fat and unfit. They will take much longer to exit the aircraft. Probably longer than me whilst collecting my bag.
Their selfishness in not maintaining an acceptable fitness level shows astonishing arrogance.
Their tardiness in vacating the aircraft will undoubtedly lead to deaths in the event of an evacuation being required.
I vote we ban fatties from air transport.
People such as myself may slow things down because we may collect our bags.
Fatties will, thus the only safe option is to ban them.
Next, children and the disabled....
The result of this is that I am likely to be sprightly when exiting the burning aircraft.
Some people have led sedentary lives. They are fat and unfit. They will take much longer to exit the aircraft. Probably longer than me whilst collecting my bag.
Their selfishness in not maintaining an acceptable fitness level shows astonishing arrogance.
Their tardiness in vacating the aircraft will undoubtedly lead to deaths in the event of an evacuation being required.
I vote we ban fatties from air transport.
People such as myself may slow things down because we may collect our bags.
Fatties will, thus the only safe option is to ban them.
Next, children and the disabled....
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evacuation was ordered from the flight deck, according to media reports of pax accounts. In the absence of more credible sources, this seems likely. No need to second-guess if it should or should not have been ordered, as long as we obviously know close to nothing, and don't know what the crew knew. Four people were lightly bruised, and got medical help on site. I see nothing highly unusual, and all I assume at this time is - job well done, by the pilots, cabin crew, emergency services and atc.