Lufthansa and cabin safety
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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Lufthansa and cabin safety
Interesting experience flying back from Frankfurt to Geneva this evening on LH 1226. Boarding was delayed 15 mins and there was apparently a change of aircraft that meant some seats had to be reassigned (if I understood the not-terribly-clear automated announcement). No problem with that, and in due course we were bussed out to a waiting 737-500. Usual boarding chaos as everyone gets on from front and rear stairs, and attempts to stow their grand pianos, fridges, billiard tables, etc. It's cold, so lots of heavy coats to stow too. Flight is full to the brim, and needless to say, there's not enough room for all the carry-on. Also some confusion about seats, presumably stemming from the aircraft change.
So various pax are standing faffing about in the aisle, which is also littered with a collection of bags. And... off we go! Push back, engines start, taxi. Cabin crew, who hitherto had been following the "discretion is the better part of valour" approach to helping the pax get settled, suddenly appear and tell people to just sit down wherever they can. Result: people end up jammed in seats along with their bags.
I was in 20D and had a good view of the gentleman across the aisle in 19C, who had a max-cabin-size roller case jammed upright between his legs, and a good size daypack stacked on top of that. Neither he nor the unfortunate pax in 19 A and B would have had much chance in an evacuation. Cabin crew were fully aware of this, and did nothing - he stayed like that the whole flight. I imagine there were others similarly encumbered, but I couldn't see.
So, my questions to PPRuNe gallery:
1. Is this normal for LH? I've never seen such a performance on any other airline, and I've flown on some pretty dodgy ones. But maybe it's no big deal.
2. Should I report it to someone? If so, to whom? Flight safety dept at LH?
So various pax are standing faffing about in the aisle, which is also littered with a collection of bags. And... off we go! Push back, engines start, taxi. Cabin crew, who hitherto had been following the "discretion is the better part of valour" approach to helping the pax get settled, suddenly appear and tell people to just sit down wherever they can. Result: people end up jammed in seats along with their bags.
I was in 20D and had a good view of the gentleman across the aisle in 19C, who had a max-cabin-size roller case jammed upright between his legs, and a good size daypack stacked on top of that. Neither he nor the unfortunate pax in 19 A and B would have had much chance in an evacuation. Cabin crew were fully aware of this, and did nothing - he stayed like that the whole flight. I imagine there were others similarly encumbered, but I couldn't see.
So, my questions to PPRuNe gallery:
1. Is this normal for LH? I've never seen such a performance on any other airline, and I've flown on some pretty dodgy ones. But maybe it's no big deal.
2. Should I report it to someone? If so, to whom? Flight safety dept at LH?
Join Date: Jun 1999
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No, it´s not normal for Lufthansa and should be reported to the authorities as a clear breach of safety regulations. Rushing to meet a slot I would guess, nevertheless NOT acceptable.
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I'm not too sure this is abnormal for Lufthansa. On the way back from Dubai the acft was pushed back into position at the gate due to a technical problem. Since the delay was going to be over an hour and it was about 1 am, I put my seat back and went to sleep. When we got going again, I couldn't put the seat up again and got the attention of a FA. I made it clear to her what was going on but she just shrugged her shoulders and carried on talking to her colleague next to her, completely ignoring me.
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The grounds being...?
I was not surprised to read that they refused to comment on the Av Herald's recent article about oil fumes on board one of their A380s, although this refusal to comment is more or less the opposite of industriousness.
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At least Ryanair seems to enforce its hand luggage policy most of the time. Yet I see people on the 'legacies' struggling to board with three or four pieces, and rarely will either gate staff or cabin crew intervene.
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I find this problem all the time in Europe.
Folks fly long haul in premium cabins on airlines like BA that have generous luggage rules, then transfer to a low coster to continue their trip within the UK, and then show up with the premium pax long haul luggage on the short haul.
Not an excuse. But I think that's what often happens. No planning ahead to the low-cost short haul leg.
I've done this a lot of times, and plan for the short-haul on eJ or Flybe when leaving home, so don't run into that big luggage hassle on the second leg.
Folks fly long haul in premium cabins on airlines like BA that have generous luggage rules, then transfer to a low coster to continue their trip within the UK, and then show up with the premium pax long haul luggage on the short haul.
Not an excuse. But I think that's what often happens. No planning ahead to the low-cost short haul leg.
I've done this a lot of times, and plan for the short-haul on eJ or Flybe when leaving home, so don't run into that big luggage hassle on the second leg.
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Only difference is a small child doesn't usually swear or threaten to sue. Check in or boarding staff, already cut to the bare minimum in a lot of airports, are under so much pressure to get the flights out on time that any kind of lengthy confrontation is avoided at all costs. If passengers followed the rules or didn't totally overact when they were being enforced then there would be room for everyone's bags on board!
Paxing All Over The World
Spot on edi_local. As it happens, yesterday (Wed 11th) I was on Lufty in Y for LHR~MUC on a 319.
The cabin service was everything I have come to expect of them = great, polite and smiling. This, despite the folks who boarded before their row was called and stuffed large bags into ANY locker they could find.
I expect that the return in a few days will be just as good. Now, back to the Glühwein.
The cabin service was everything I have come to expect of them = great, polite and smiling. This, despite the folks who boarded before their row was called and stuffed large bags into ANY locker they could find.
I expect that the return in a few days will be just as good. Now, back to the Glühwein.
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Response from Lufthansa
So I used LH's online feedback facility to complain. This is the reply I just got:
Thank you for your online feedback dated 5 December 2013. We appreciate your patience whilst awaiting our reply.
It was with great regret that we learned of the situation you describe onboard Lufthansa flight LH1226 from Frankfurt to Geneva on 4 December 2013 where you mention that the appropriate safety measures were not taken. We certainly understand how upsetting the situation must have been for you, especially since you expect a convenient and reliable service from us. Please accept our most sincere apologies for any inconvenience this situation may have caused you and your fellow passengers.
As stated in your feedback, you are anxious about the safety of our flights. As safety is of paramount importance to Lufthansa, we have uniformly regulated selection criteria and training standards worldwide in order to ensure that all the members of our cabin crew are qualified and well trained. We are therefore very sorry to learn that this was not the case on 4 December 2013. Our cabin crew are expected to do everything possible to hold inconvenience to a minimum and we regret that the way the situation was handled on board was not in line with our usual high standards. It was obvious that we at Lufthansa, who pride ourselves on a long-standing record of commitment to quality and safety, have given you a cause to be disappointed.
Nevertheless, there are a lot of influences to consider, and of course we cannot predict the results in advance. However, we can only hope to assure you that your complaint has been copied in to the relevant department concerned and in to our Senior In-Flight Management as this gives us an opportunity to address your issue. On behalf of Lufthansa, may we apologise once again for the problems surrounding this journey. We do very much hope that we will have the opportunity to reassure you of our usual high standard of service.
Thank you for your valuable feedback regarding Lufthansa’s cabin safety procedures and cabin crew awareness, your feedback has attracted our interest. Therefore, we have taken the opportunity to address this matter internally to the responsible departments. We will analyse our current service procedure and consider changes in order to accommodate your expectations.
Direct feedback from our most loyal passengers is always greatly appreciated as your comments and observations give us the chance to further improve the services we offer to our passengers. We thank you for raising this issue with us and presenting us with the opportunity to pursue this matter. Although, we realise this situation may have compromised your faith in Lufthansa, we remain hopeful that you will afford us the opportunity to regain your confidence on a future flight.
It was with great regret that we learned of the situation you describe onboard Lufthansa flight LH1226 from Frankfurt to Geneva on 4 December 2013 where you mention that the appropriate safety measures were not taken. We certainly understand how upsetting the situation must have been for you, especially since you expect a convenient and reliable service from us. Please accept our most sincere apologies for any inconvenience this situation may have caused you and your fellow passengers.
As stated in your feedback, you are anxious about the safety of our flights. As safety is of paramount importance to Lufthansa, we have uniformly regulated selection criteria and training standards worldwide in order to ensure that all the members of our cabin crew are qualified and well trained. We are therefore very sorry to learn that this was not the case on 4 December 2013. Our cabin crew are expected to do everything possible to hold inconvenience to a minimum and we regret that the way the situation was handled on board was not in line with our usual high standards. It was obvious that we at Lufthansa, who pride ourselves on a long-standing record of commitment to quality and safety, have given you a cause to be disappointed.
Nevertheless, there are a lot of influences to consider, and of course we cannot predict the results in advance. However, we can only hope to assure you that your complaint has been copied in to the relevant department concerned and in to our Senior In-Flight Management as this gives us an opportunity to address your issue. On behalf of Lufthansa, may we apologise once again for the problems surrounding this journey. We do very much hope that we will have the opportunity to reassure you of our usual high standard of service.
Thank you for your valuable feedback regarding Lufthansa’s cabin safety procedures and cabin crew awareness, your feedback has attracted our interest. Therefore, we have taken the opportunity to address this matter internally to the responsible departments. We will analyse our current service procedure and consider changes in order to accommodate your expectations.
Direct feedback from our most loyal passengers is always greatly appreciated as your comments and observations give us the chance to further improve the services we offer to our passengers. We thank you for raising this issue with us and presenting us with the opportunity to pursue this matter. Although, we realise this situation may have compromised your faith in Lufthansa, we remain hopeful that you will afford us the opportunity to regain your confidence on a future flight.
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No doubt mostly written by software after a minimum amount of information entered. i.e. Name, flight number, date and 'safety measures not taken' concern.
Doesn't give me any confidence that anything will be done other, perhaps, that your complaint will be reported with all others to senior management. i.e. X% of complainers identified safety concerns ...
I think LH can do better than this.
Doesn't give me any confidence that anything will be done other, perhaps, that your complaint will be reported with all others to senior management. i.e. X% of complainers identified safety concerns ...
I think LH can do better than this.
An appropriate response would have been:
Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
We both know it shouldn't happen
The incident has been reported to our company's postholder for flight safety.
There will be consequences for the crew involved.
We'll make sure it doesn't happen again.
This "most sincere apologies for your inconvenience" crap really rankles and makes you think (know..)you're not being taken seriously
Time for the response to be shunted up the ladder. Carsten Spohr is CEO of the passenger airline and a qualified line pilot. Email convention: first name.last [email protected]
He'll sort it.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
We both know it shouldn't happen
The incident has been reported to our company's postholder for flight safety.
There will be consequences for the crew involved.
We'll make sure it doesn't happen again.
This "most sincere apologies for your inconvenience" crap really rankles and makes you think (know..)you're not being taken seriously
Time for the response to be shunted up the ladder. Carsten Spohr is CEO of the passenger airline and a qualified line pilot. Email convention: first name.last [email protected]
He'll sort it.
Actually an appropriate response would have been:
If you considered it a threat to the safety of passengers, crew or aircraft why did you say nothing at the time?
If you considered it a threat to the safety of passengers, crew or aircraft why did you say nothing at the time?
"I must have misunderstood, no-one can be THAT dim..."
And then counts to 10 before responding....
