CDG Airport Security refused Gate Access without Seeing Return Ticket
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CDG Airport Security refused Gate Access without Seeing Return Ticket
Interested in views on this one please.
Just back from the USA.
I was forced to transit via CDG on the outward journey to JFK. On arrival at the Gate for the onward flight to JFK, the airport security guard would not let me pass until I produced a copy of the return portion of the ticket on the dubious grounds that it was their responsibility to ensure I had a return ticket before travelling.
I asked her on what grounds she was refusing me access to the aircraft bearing in mind I had a valid boarding pass I had an ESTA registration, it is the airline's responsibility to ensure passengers are correctly documented, and the decision on entry to the USA is within the gift of the CBP at JFK and not a security guard at CDG, whose responsibility is to look after security not decide on immigration issues !
I also asked her how she did not know I was actually making a one-way journey, which of course would mean I could never comply with her request !
None of this actually cut any ice and we reached a standoff, which was only resolved by my going to the Delta desk agent and they printing off a copy of the e-ticket to show this woman. The desk agent (French) could not give me any reason for the request, only giving me the typical French shrugged shoulders and "what can I do ?" answer.
I would be interested in views as in 30 years of travelling I have never encountered such a request from airport security.
Just back from the USA.
I was forced to transit via CDG on the outward journey to JFK. On arrival at the Gate for the onward flight to JFK, the airport security guard would not let me pass until I produced a copy of the return portion of the ticket on the dubious grounds that it was their responsibility to ensure I had a return ticket before travelling.
I asked her on what grounds she was refusing me access to the aircraft bearing in mind I had a valid boarding pass I had an ESTA registration, it is the airline's responsibility to ensure passengers are correctly documented, and the decision on entry to the USA is within the gift of the CBP at JFK and not a security guard at CDG, whose responsibility is to look after security not decide on immigration issues !
I also asked her how she did not know I was actually making a one-way journey, which of course would mean I could never comply with her request !
None of this actually cut any ice and we reached a standoff, which was only resolved by my going to the Delta desk agent and they printing off a copy of the e-ticket to show this woman. The desk agent (French) could not give me any reason for the request, only giving me the typical French shrugged shoulders and "what can I do ?" answer.
I would be interested in views as in 30 years of travelling I have never encountered such a request from airport security.
If an airline carries a passenger into the USA (and many other countries) and that passenger is refused entry the airline is obliged to carry them out again (and the airline will probably be fined as well). In the days of paper tickets proving you were going to leave again was easy. These days passengers are supposed to carry a copy of the paper ticket receipt (which is not the itinerary that some agencies hand out) for that purpose. When ET first appeared the USA was quite strict about demanding receipts and I know a few people were returned (including two very senior IBM employees).
My experience has been that the receipt is hardly ever asked for anywhere but that doesn't mean I can ignore the requirement to carry it so I do. Simple.
My experience has been that the receipt is hardly ever asked for anywhere but that doesn't mean I can ignore the requirement to carry it so I do. Simple.
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Hartington, thank you and I appreciate what you say.
The whole point of an e-ticket though is to reduce the need for paper tickets and in the particular circumstances my travel needs had changed during a period when I was not able to print out the ticket anyway. Normally I do have it but have never been asked before as the airline obviously has all the information they need from their reservation system.
My question though relates to the right of the security guard to become involved in what is in effect an airline and immigration issue.
The whole point of an e-ticket though is to reduce the need for paper tickets and in the particular circumstances my travel needs had changed during a period when I was not able to print out the ticket anyway. Normally I do have it but have never been asked before as the airline obviously has all the information they need from their reservation system.
My question though relates to the right of the security guard to become involved in what is in effect an airline and immigration issue.
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My question though relates to the right of the security guard to become involved in what is in effect an airline and immigration issue.
Why not help the person do their job next time by carrying the details or is your beef that a mere pleb asked you instead of a senior customs officer or airline employee?
Maybe AF have had too many people turned back recently from the USA specifically for not having the ET receipt.
One of the reasons why the airlines went ET was that it saved them the not inconsiderable cost of printing tickets (specialised and hence expensive). It also saved them money in not having to handle paper. But the general idea of reducing the use of paper was not really one they thought about.
One of the reasons why the airlines went ET was that it saved them the not inconsiderable cost of printing tickets (specialised and hence expensive). It also saved them money in not having to handle paper. But the general idea of reducing the use of paper was not really one they thought about.
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Not all passengers require a return ticket to enter the US. Obviously US citizens / green card holders do not. Canadians (who can transit the US by surface) do not either. Diplomats, UN employees, who may be resident in US without a green card, etc. would not require one. I'd be surprised if a security guard would know all of the rules.
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skipness one echo - Late night ? 
Couple of points.
Presumably you are a citizen of an EU country ? If so you have absolute right to travel within the EU without restriction therefore I find your comment about FRA very strange. I was not treated in that way when I last travelled from FRA.
The right of the USA to require proof of when you intend to leave is the job of the CBP agent in the USA, and does not extend any right to a security guard in Paris to demand this information.
Airlines are responsible for checking you have a valid passport and visa - and for some Countries a return ticket. This is done at checkin, not at the gate. If you don't meet the criteria you don't get a boarding pass, hence your eligibility to travel has already been ascertained by the airline.
Security is there for precisely that, and I have no doubt that the security woman at CDG would be completely unfamiliar with the many different Visa types applicable to the USA. As I pointed out above issue of the boarding pass confirmed that I met those requirements
My work sometimes means that I go to the USA and then travel on to another destination before returning to the UK. Sometimes this destination depends on what happens in the USA. I therefore do not always have a return ticket.
Couple of points.
Presumably you are a citizen of an EU country ? If so you have absolute right to travel within the EU without restriction therefore I find your comment about FRA very strange. I was not treated in that way when I last travelled from FRA.
The right of the USA to require proof of when you intend to leave is the job of the CBP agent in the USA, and does not extend any right to a security guard in Paris to demand this information.
Airlines are responsible for checking you have a valid passport and visa - and for some Countries a return ticket. This is done at checkin, not at the gate. If you don't meet the criteria you don't get a boarding pass, hence your eligibility to travel has already been ascertained by the airline.
Security is there for precisely that, and I have no doubt that the security woman at CDG would be completely unfamiliar with the many different Visa types applicable to the USA. As I pointed out above issue of the boarding pass confirmed that I met those requirements
My work sometimes means that I go to the USA and then travel on to another destination before returning to the UK. Sometimes this destination depends on what happens in the USA. I therefore do not always have a return ticket.
TG in BKK refused to accept my wife (EU national, 6 months stay in NZ without a visa) for carriage to AKL without sighting an onward ticket from New Zealand.
QF refused to accept me (NZ national) for carriage to LAX without sighting a physical (I had my eticket on my smartphone..) onward ticket out of the US. DNATA in SYD then charged me something like $15 for the privilege of printing a single page....
And the gate security guy in FRA (sole task: compare boarding pass with passport and tick the boarding number on a list) starting asking about the reason and duration of my visit to the UK. Quick word with the LH gate manager sorted that out.
QF refused to accept me (NZ national) for carriage to LAX without sighting a physical (I had my eticket on my smartphone..) onward ticket out of the US. DNATA in SYD then charged me something like $15 for the privilege of printing a single page....
And the gate security guy in FRA (sole task: compare boarding pass with passport and tick the boarding number on a list) starting asking about the reason and duration of my visit to the UK. Quick word with the LH gate manager sorted that out.
Last edited by RevMan2; 23rd Jun 2013 at 20:22.
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I have never been fooled by this e-ticket nonsense, or indeed any e-something or other. This whole thing is designed as an economic exercise not electronic exercise. The whole cost is passed on to us the buyer of the service. I carry every piece of paper which is a copy of what has been sent to me because I am paranoid over the virtual world not working. Luddite I know but I don't like to be caught out. I miss those small little paper tickets, everything could be kept in my wallet. Now I need a filing system to travel!
But the airline industry is not the only one which behaves like this and of course it is here to stay.
But the airline industry is not the only one which behaves like this and of course it is here to stay.
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Presumably you are a citizen of an EU country ? If so you have absolute right to travel within the EU without restriction therefore I find your comment about FRA very strange. I was not treated in that way when I last travelled from FRA.
The whole cost is passed on to us the buyer of the service.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 24th Jun 2013 at 21:52.
Unfortunately Rail Engineer, it's still quite often the case, give someone a uniform & a big hat & they consider themselves God & their word is immediately law!
Fair to say though, that recently when I travelled from AKL to & from the UK the via SIN, security & customs personnel right the way through, were professional, considerate & polite. Perhaps the penny is at long last starting to drop, but as you found at CDG, a long way to go yet.
Regards.
Fair to say though, that recently when I travelled from AKL to & from the UK the via SIN, security & customs personnel right the way through, were professional, considerate & polite. Perhaps the penny is at long last starting to drop, but as you found at CDG, a long way to go yet.
Regards.
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Paper tickets were accountable documents. Blank tickets each had a potential maximum value of some 10s of thousands of dollars/francs/pounds. Completed tickets had the value written on them and, depending on the tariff, could be refunded/rerouted/reissued, without too much difficulty. If you lost a paper ticket getting it reissued required you to indemnify the airline against any loss.
They were expensive to print, to store securely and to transport. Travel agents had to have a safe on their premises.
Lower costs to the airline mean lower fares, not higher airline profits.
They were expensive to print, to store securely and to transport. Travel agents had to have a safe on their premises.
Lower costs to the airline mean lower fares, not higher airline profits.
The more I think about this the less I understand the problem. In these days of electronic tickets and online checkin someone has to verify the eligibility of us (the passenger) to travel.
The point is that the gate is the point of no return (some of us will have bypassed checkin because we did it online and we don't have hold baggage) and the gate staff have enough on their plates. Why does the check have to be done by airline staff? If the security staff can do it why not train them to do so?
The point is that the gate is the point of no return (some of us will have bypassed checkin because we did it online and we don't have hold baggage) and the gate staff have enough on their plates. Why does the check have to be done by airline staff? If the security staff can do it why not train them to do so?
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Boarding cards shouldn't be issued if the passenger hasn't provided the APIS / ESTA information. If missing the passenger needs to check-in with airline staff and they can check for documents.
APIS doesn't validate the existence of 'return or beyond ticket'. That information may be on the PNR, but security staff are unlikely to have access to that.
On the other hand an e-ticket would be very easy to forge, so having a paper copy doesn't prove a ticket exists.
Curiouser and curiouser ...
APIS doesn't validate the existence of 'return or beyond ticket'. That information may be on the PNR, but security staff are unlikely to have access to that.
On the other hand an e-ticket would be very easy to forge, so having a paper copy doesn't prove a ticket exists.
Curiouser and curiouser ...
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I'd be surprised if a security guard would know all of the rules.
But, ExxB, if only certain countries require "special processing" then the guards could probably be trained for MOST situations if not all.
I've never had a problem with security at the gate (in the sense that they've looked at passport and boarding pass and never stopped me) If they did ask for my ticket receipt I might sigh but I know where it will be and I'll dig it out.
I've never had a problem with security at the gate (in the sense that they've looked at passport and boarding pass and never stopped me) If they did ask for my ticket receipt I might sigh but I know where it will be and I'll dig it out.
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Guys guys guys, we're not party to what is going on on the day. It may well be that as aresult of some intel there was a "security" situation and that the security staff were instructed to check return receipts that day (or that week or whatever).
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I think that you will find that G4S and other such companies employ people specifically for this purpose. They are actually trained in travel documentation and know a lot more than those on check-in. In fact the airline staff will often ask the security people if they have a query.
These people often used to work for specialist companies as IAS, ADI and such like before they were taken over. The airlines employ them to check documentation at the gates specifically to do a final check on all passengers which will then include transit pax, who will have bypassed check-in.
It really does not have anything to do with US Immigration, it is purely to ensure that the airline can be sure that the passenger is not going to be refused entry to the US and any associated repercussions.
These people often used to work for specialist companies as IAS, ADI and such like before they were taken over. The airlines employ them to check documentation at the gates specifically to do a final check on all passengers which will then include transit pax, who will have bypassed check-in.
It really does not have anything to do with US Immigration, it is purely to ensure that the airline can be sure that the passenger is not going to be refused entry to the US and any associated repercussions.
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I have had the same request at CDG. Its french arse covering of the worst and ill informed type. None of their business if I have a return ticket. They are responsible for ensuring one is eligible to enter, sure, but the minimum wagers put on the checking have no clue about circumstances that might pemit one to enter on a one way ticket, as I have often done. They also have no clue about passport validity rules, you can enter the us onthe last day of a uk passport, good luck argiung that out in CDG... Mind you, anyone who uses CDG only has themselves to blame. Its easily the worst hub in europe. I have lost count of lost bags and missed connections there, to say nothing of the collapsing teminal roof that was so horrid a few years back. Its a dump....
