Plane taxiing to take off while PAX are standing
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Plane taxiing to take off while PAX are standing
Can anyone tell me please whether it's against any regs for a plane to taxi to the runway while pax are still standing?
This happened this evening on a flight from EMA to AGP. The FAs had no control over the pax who could not find space in the overhead lockers for the bags hence pax were blocking the aisle. The FA was asked to come down the plane to organise the situation, eg to remove small bags and coats from the overhead lockers to make room for larger bags but said she couldn't get down the aisle because the pax were in the way.
The plane drew back from the stand and carried on towards the runway while about ten pax were standing in the aisle unable to stow their bags.
Is it me or is this not a good idea? Logic tells me that if pax are expected to be in their seats and strapped down while the plane taxis towards the gate after exiting the runway then the reverse must also be true.
One or two pax asked if this is a breach of CAA regs and I'm wondering if it should be reported. Seemed to me as though were some unmet training needs.
ETA: By the time the plane got to the runway, all pax were seated.
This happened this evening on a flight from EMA to AGP. The FAs had no control over the pax who could not find space in the overhead lockers for the bags hence pax were blocking the aisle. The FA was asked to come down the plane to organise the situation, eg to remove small bags and coats from the overhead lockers to make room for larger bags but said she couldn't get down the aisle because the pax were in the way.
The plane drew back from the stand and carried on towards the runway while about ten pax were standing in the aisle unable to stow their bags.
Is it me or is this not a good idea? Logic tells me that if pax are expected to be in their seats and strapped down while the plane taxis towards the gate after exiting the runway then the reverse must also be true.
One or two pax asked if this is a breach of CAA regs and I'm wondering if it should be reported. Seemed to me as though were some unmet training needs.
ETA: By the time the plane got to the runway, all pax were seated.
Last edited by ChocksAwayChaps; 9th Mar 2013 at 23:26.
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hi
I'm an airline pilot here in the good old USA and of course we are not under the CAA...however, we do NOT allow airplane movement of any kind (short of a an earthquake ;-0) while passengers are anywhere except in their seats with seatbelts properly fastened.
I am assuming that flight attendants were there and capable of reporting this to the cockpit crew? Perhaps the pilots thought the plane was ready to be taxiied...perhaps the FA's didn't do their job?
as far as reporting it...its up to you. I imagine no one was hurt, though it could have caused an injury.
I'm an airline pilot here in the good old USA and of course we are not under the CAA...however, we do NOT allow airplane movement of any kind (short of a an earthquake ;-0) while passengers are anywhere except in their seats with seatbelts properly fastened.
I am assuming that flight attendants were there and capable of reporting this to the cockpit crew? Perhaps the pilots thought the plane was ready to be taxiied...perhaps the FA's didn't do their job?
as far as reporting it...its up to you. I imagine no one was hurt, though it could have caused an injury.
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Thanks, sevenstrokeroll. FAs were definitely not doing their job.
Am presuming pilots tell FAs when they're ready to push back and this would have provided an opportunity for FAs to say, hold on a sec, the pax aren't all seated yet, let alone tied down.
No idea who should be informed if it is against the regs but I can say it was a worrying situation with potential human sized missiles standing around.
Am presuming pilots tell FAs when they're ready to push back and this would have provided an opportunity for FAs to say, hold on a sec, the pax aren't all seated yet, let alone tied down.
No idea who should be informed if it is against the regs but I can say it was a worrying situation with potential human sized missiles standing around.
Chocks the biggest problem would be if the pilot had to hit the brakes then all hell would break loose. Just remembre that pax stand up when taxying in as well, remember many time the CC calling us in the flihght deck that pax were out of their seats. If big bags above and beyond the sizes allowed were taken off pax before they borded would also take the problem away. If the pilot stopped the taxi until the pax were seated and lost his slot for an hour who would get the blame, the pilots of course. There is a no win situation for the crew here. Report it and what will get done, the crew will get the blame, the pax are faceless and nameless so they will not be affected.
Why not name the operator? Nothing wrong in doing so if what you are reporting here is factual. I wonder if they just didn't want to miss their slot. No excuse of course.
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fergineer sums it all up. In these forums we have often shaken our collective heads' at the failure of ground staff to control hand luggage. We know why they do it - pax that will then be abusive at them.
If the ground staff knew that bad behaviour by pax woul dbe met with a supervisor barring them from the flight and being returned to the car park? But that is never going to happen.
It is the pax and, whilst the carrier (I've not bothered to look) IS at fault - in financial crisis the pax win every time.
If the ground staff knew that bad behaviour by pax woul dbe met with a supervisor barring them from the flight and being returned to the car park? But that is never going to happen.
It is the pax and, whilst the carrier (I've not bothered to look) IS at fault - in financial crisis the pax win every time.
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I did query this with BA when I was operating at LGW up to 2004 and they confirmed there was no 'procedure' (no 'requirement' therefore?) for crew to notify the Captain that all pax were seated prior to push-back. The only 'check' was a common-sense understanding between the Senior and Captain. I had previously pushed back quite a few times with pax standing. My personal opinion is that there should be a mandatory check before push and I was surprised there was not. I'm pretty sure previous airline (DanAir) had both a head count and an 'all seated' call before push/start, but memories fade.
In BA our trigger for start and push was generally 'doors closed' and in those days the pressure on dispatchers for the mythical 'good boy bonus' sometimes meant the last few pax were shoved through the door which was then shut by the dispatcher.
I had one Italiano who actually boarded 6 'late' pax and then pushed my senior over onto the galley floor as she would not allow him to shut the door (at STD) until the pax were seated...................I got out of my seat and 'spoke' to him offering him some 'advice', and unfortunately delayed departure.
In BA our trigger for start and push was generally 'doors closed' and in those days the pressure on dispatchers for the mythical 'good boy bonus' sometimes meant the last few pax were shoved through the door which was then shut by the dispatcher.
I had one Italiano who actually boarded 6 'late' pax and then pushed my senior over onto the galley floor as she would not allow him to shut the door (at STD) until the pax were seated...................I got out of my seat and 'spoke' to him offering him some 'advice', and unfortunately delayed departure.
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'good boy bonus'
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The ground staff were checking the size of hand luggage so not really pax's fault that the plane has too little space.
Flight was Ryanair.
So there is no breach of regs? That's why I posted the question so if anyone knows any different...
Flight was Ryanair.
So there is no breach of regs? That's why I posted the question so if anyone knows any different...
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Well, yes, I believe it is a breach of regs as was BA's and no doubt a few other airlines, but in the frenzy to allow 'self-regulation' (aka cut admin costs) I guess no-one in the CAA/IAA really cares. It is 'left' to individual airlines to put be trusted to put adequate procedures in place. Just like aircraft flying with insufficient life-jackets - no longer the Captain's direct responsibility.
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Its always the cc that have to deal with SLF that dont listen ,when they are asked NOT to put coats,carrier bags etc in the overheads so That everyone can get cabin bags in their first.....simples!! I think SLF think that cc are their to make everyones life difficult
....Rant over!
....Rant over!
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Pabloc, the CC did not ask the pax not to put coats, small bags up top in fact the CC was too busy chatting to a bloke at the aircraft door! She was thus not in a position in the aisle to organise the pax and when asked to do so, after the plane started moving she claimed she couldn't cos pax were in the way! I would have thought her uniform gave her authority to ask pax to let her pass.
As I said, unnmet training needs but how to get the airline's attention to address this? A report to CAA or wait til something unpleasant happens?
As I said, unnmet training needs but how to get the airline's attention to address this? A report to CAA or wait til something unpleasant happens?
Let's get one thing clear...
There's a lot of hand-wringing in the responses to the OP of the 'it wasn't me, the big boy ran away' variety. What happened was wrong, against regs (or should be) and unless pax complain it will not get fixed.
We have traffic lights at road junctions. If you pass at red and get away with it good for you; but you could endanger somebody else. That's why we have cameras.
The whole 'light-touch' regulation scenario which gave us the banking crisis depends on goodwill and self-discipline both of which are anathema to the profit motive as practiced by certain airlines/banks/food companies. It will change if there is a bad accident but do we want that on our consciences?
I suggest the OP complains to the CAA or whoever is in charge. They can insist on a remedy
We have traffic lights at road junctions. If you pass at red and get away with it good for you; but you could endanger somebody else. That's why we have cameras.
The whole 'light-touch' regulation scenario which gave us the banking crisis depends on goodwill and self-discipline both of which are anathema to the profit motive as practiced by certain airlines/banks/food companies. It will change if there is a bad accident but do we want that on our consciences?
I suggest the OP complains to the CAA or whoever is in charge. They can insist on a remedy
Last edited by farci; 11th Mar 2013 at 11:58.
Let's give this some thought.
Can anyone justify why pax must not be standing during taxi, when they have just all been standing in the transfer bus out from the terminal, accelerating, braking and swinging round corners with far more g-force on the pax that is incurred during taxi, even coming to a stop. The transfer bus which over the years has provided less and less seats, so it ends up now that just about everyone is standing. And if the pax have just come out to Heathrow on the Piccadilly Line Underground, they've spent the last hour standing up while the train starts and stops every two minutes, without issue.
Excuse me, but why should my carrier bag, coat, etc somehow take second priority in the overheads to someone else's cabin bags ? I'm as entitled to bring my hand items on board as the next pax. In fact, as the airline provides a hold baggage service, surely it should be those larger things, which should be in the hold in the first place, that should be reloaded down there.
Can anyone justify why pax must not be standing during taxi, when they have just all been standing in the transfer bus out from the terminal, accelerating, braking and swinging round corners with far more g-force on the pax that is incurred during taxi, even coming to a stop. The transfer bus which over the years has provided less and less seats, so it ends up now that just about everyone is standing. And if the pax have just come out to Heathrow on the Piccadilly Line Underground, they've spent the last hour standing up while the train starts and stops every two minutes, without issue.
SLF that dont listen ,when they are asked NOT to put coats,carrier bags etc in the overheads so That everyone can get cabin bags in their first
Last edited by WHBM; 11th Mar 2013 at 14:31.
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WHBM...On some flights when SLF have still got to put cabin bags in the overheads and there is no room due to coats etc, we have to ask for them to be removed or we're going no where!,can't fly with cabin bags "in the way",you have every right to put your coat etc in the overhead,but sometimes co-operation and logic would see a safe,comfy and stress free flight for crew and passengers.....
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At EMA we boarded the plane directly from the terminal building using our own legs and not the bus so on this occasion this scenario is N/A.
Yes, thanks, farci for your reply.
As for the other replies, crikey, I only wanted a straight answer, did this breach regs or not!
Yes, thanks, farci for your reply.
As for the other replies, crikey, I only wanted a straight answer, did this breach regs or not!