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mobile phones

Old 20th Nov 2012, 21:51
  #1 (permalink)  
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mobile phones

Opinions or advice, either are fine. I was on an Air Canada flight last night out of YEG, it was a Dash 8 and full all but 2 seats, all the usual pre flight briefs were done and mobile phone use etc were covered. However this 1 seat forward and diagonal to me persisted to send and recieve emails right the way through take off and landing. Yes i did challenge him but by then we were airborne. I told the stewardess who said, "what can i do, i told them twice" and just left it. My blood was boiling at the ignorance of the guy who cared not a jot for anybody, i could clearly see his phone and it was fully on and not in a FS mode.......what do you or can you actually do when crap likethat happens
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Old 20th Nov 2012, 22:09
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Walk up, take it off him. Break it.
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Old 21st Nov 2012, 00:07
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Annoying it is, but you should try some of the Russian flights, they ignore everything when it comes to mobiles, seat belts or remaining seated. You do wonder at times.
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Old 21st Nov 2012, 00:43
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Likewise in China. I don't care if some numpty jumps up the second the wheels hit the tarmac, I don't care if they open the overhead bin, a heavy case lands on their daft head & they are thrown forward at high velocity and smash into a bulkhead.

I do care if their nobber actions hurt me or anyone else.

I suggest an action group is formed (with meetings to raise awareness in airline lounges):

'Oi! We Paid for Our Tickets Too!'

Why should fair minded passengers suffer because numpties can't be ordered tio follow the rules....?
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Old 21st Nov 2012, 08:42
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Or hit him with your iPad, oh ... that has to be stored too.

Hit him with your Steve Jobs biography (2.1 lbs, 0.95kg) that's OK to have out.

Or don't worry about it. Regulations on cell phone use are there because of the interference they cause with ground stations (cells).

Federal Communications Commission (FCC) rules prohibit the use of cellular phones using the 800 MHz frequency and other wireless devices on airborne aircraft. This ban was put in place because of potential interference to wireless networks on the ground.
Wireless Devices on Airplanes | FCC.gov

In theory he should be reported to the police for not following crew instructions. He is breaking the law, but so will be the guy hitting the G&Ts with the intention of driving later.

If flight safety was involved I'd be more concerned, but there is no compelling evidence to suggest there is. The US FAA is re-re-re-reviewing it
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Old 21st Nov 2012, 08:51
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If flight safety was involved I'd be more concerned, but there is no compelling evidence to suggest there is. The US FAA is re-re-re-reviewing it
And so the Hamster-Wheel revolves once more...

Please ensure that you contact the FAA immediately: They await your learned opinion.

For everyone else - Please ensure that this doesn't become yet another thread on "Why can't I use my iPhone/iPad/Kindle/Laptop/Bluetooth where and when I want to when I know that the evil airlines are preventing me from doing so for no valid reason at all?"
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Old 21st Nov 2012, 13:53
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I'm quite surprised by the attitude of the Cabin Crew. Surely what she could do is threaten to have the police waiting for him on arrival for failure to obey her/the pilot's lawful orders?

I have no idea whether using a mobile in flight is actually dangerous. But people who have thought longer and harder about it than me consider it may be. That's quite enough for me. Even if the chance is absolutely remote, why should one d!ckhead decide he knows better?

IMHO it was the flight attendant's job to enforce this rule - I wouldn't be impressed if they simply didn't bother (in the absence of other extenuating circumstances, eg. drunk, aggressive passenger who might constitute a more immediate threat if told to turn the phone off, then it may be a question of balancing one risk against another).
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Old 21st Nov 2012, 14:21
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If CC don't 'bother' about the turning off of a phone where is the line to be drawn about 'bothering'?
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Old 21st Nov 2012, 14:51
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If CC don't 'bother' about the turning off of a phone where is the line to be drawn about 'bothering'?
That's just the thing - the line seems to be steadily evaporating. Thanks for starting this thread Dry Wretched Thunder, it is timely. I've noticed more and more follow SLF using their mobiles, often quite openly, during taxi and takeoff, and sometimes in flight, and fewer and fewer CC picking them up on it. Sometimes it seems as if the CC are deliberately trying not to notice. I used to regularly challenge passengers and/or alert CC, but there are so many transgressors now, I no longer bother. I think we may have reached a point of no return, and in due course the rules will be amended to accommodate a fait accompli.
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Old 21st Nov 2012, 15:06
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With the avdnet of G4 and G5 and what is called 'LTE' (Long Term Evolution), the potential for a problem is increasing. Especially as what are known as 'Out of Band' emissions for devices using the 'white spaces' are likely to be even more of a problem.
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Old 21st Nov 2012, 15:24
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Let's not forget that the FAA is reviewing the policy on emitting devices. We now have, approved, use of some devices in cockpits and I understand someone today thinking there's a rule for them and a different rule for us. However let's see what they decide for us plebs in the back of the plane.

I even understand that Emirates is going to use Windows 8 enabled devices in the cockpit (even though W8 was only released into the wild a few weeks ago) - but I suppose they do know what they are doing.

Until then, the rule is turn it off until you are told otherwise, and that rule should be followed.

Last edited by ExXB; 21st Nov 2012 at 15:26.
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Old 22nd Nov 2012, 12:46
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They need to be very careful. There are now mobile 'phone services in the band above 2.5GHz, and they are known to cause severe interference to certain types of S band air surveillance radar.
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Old 22nd Nov 2012, 13:04
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On an easyJet flight into Luton (don't ask!) I was in the window seat and there was a random between me and the rather important fat Indian business man on the aisle. You know the type, likes to be seen, make a point of asking the crew slightly annoying questions. "Why do I have to put my tray table up?"

Phone comes out on finals, I, thumping headache after a bad day at the office asked him politely to put it off. He immediately launched into why he thought it was perfectly safe but I pointed out I would simply take it off him, switch it off and hold onto it until the Police were summoned at the gate. I was in no hurry by this point... That seemed to work. I apologised later to the poor chap between us who looked benignly ahead the whole time.

Just turn it off for five minutes for the love of God.....
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Old 22nd Nov 2012, 13:13
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I was delighted to see an obnoxious self-important Frenchman removed by the Bundesgrenzschutz Polizei from a Lufthansa flight at FRA. He was told twice by crew to stop using his 'phone after the doors were closed as we were taxiing to the runway. He refused.

His parting words as he was 'gently' removed from the aircraft were : "I will never fly wiz ze Lufthansa again."

The cabin director's response, to cheers, was : "That is korrect, Sir. You will be banned."
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Old 22nd Nov 2012, 15:29
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Tableview That is one of the MOST encouraging stories I have ever heard. makes me want to use Lufty all the time.

SOE
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Old 22nd Nov 2012, 21:58
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Hi, I had a related situation a few months ago.

I had suspicions the passenger beside me had his phone still switched on as we taxied down the run-way. He had appeared to be sleeping during the safety briefing, so I politely asked him had he remembered to turn his phone off. He snapped at me that he had. Mid-flight he took his phone out and started surfing. (I wasn't deliberately looking but the distinctive BBC news website came on and that is the truth, how he picked up a signal I do not know.)

I went down the aisle to the flight attendants who were serving refreshments and explained the situation. They said they would talk to the gentleman. As it happened, as they came by the 'ten minutes' to land bell sounded, so they asked him simply to turn off his device because we would be landing shortly.

Two minutes later he got out of his seat and went to speak to the flight attendants. He complained that he felt he had been singled out!!

I found this out after we landed when the flight attendant came to speak to me and told me what had happened.

Unfortunately, this isn't just an issue about following 'house safety rules', but it is also about basic courtesy and respect and unfortunately, there are a few folk around who don't have these simple qualities.

Usually if I see somebody whose phone I suspect is switched up I simply explain that I am a nervous flyer(the truth) and that I'm sure they don't want to make me even more nervous. Most folk are very polite and re-assure me that their phone is off, but there is always the exception...

My 'solution, is that where crew find somebody with their phone switched that they should confiscate the phone. The phone should be passed to ground staff on arrival and the passenger in question should be asked to follow the ground staff to the terminal, where details of the 'incident' are recorded on the customer's notes (in the event that there is a return flight pending and/or they are a frequent flyer). The passenger should then be given a written caution and told that if this situation arises again, they shall be banned from flying with the airline in question
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Old 22nd Nov 2012, 22:50
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Mobile phones on planes. The bane of my life!

But anyway, radeng raised something I also have been wondering about. What about the new G4 enabled devices? I'm the first to admit, I know nothing about the science behind it but from what I've seen and from the recent publicity there has been regarding the signals used, this has the potential to be a pretty serious issue. Let's face it, many of those that switch on their phones, declaring "Well nothing has ever happened in the past" know about as much as me. They are doing it because everyone else does. And because they've never crashed so "it must be safe". What happens when they switch on their new upgrade?

For radeng and all those that do understand how it all works, do these new signals have the potential to seriously affect the aircraft? And in what way? And if they have, how the heck do we stop the 'we know better' brigade from hiding their phones and ignoring the rules, particularly when even the FAA and CAA can't seem to agree on the risks during certain phases such as taxiing. And how do we do all that before the possible worst case scenario hits the headlines? Or is that what it is going to take?

Last edited by jetset lady; 22nd Nov 2012 at 22:53.
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Old 23rd Nov 2012, 02:35
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Keep a tally of news reports on planes falling out of the sky due to mobile/cell phone use. Keep it next to the tally of those who drown because they went swimming within 30 minutes of eating.

I find that enforcement is very different when sitting in J or F compared to Economy.
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Old 23rd Nov 2012, 05:41
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@ Maddie

Just because the BBC news website appeared on this guys phone does not mean he was on line. With Flight Mode selected on, my phone will still show the web site front page, and I can still read the stories which are held in cache on my phone. It just won't update.
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Old 23rd Nov 2012, 07:39
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Bit of a dilemma.

Passengers must follow the instructions of the crew. There is no excuse for not doing so. But today people no longer will follow instructions if they don't see anything in it for them, particularly when they think its a stupid rule. "They use iPads in the cockpit, why can't I use my android here?"

On the other hand FAs are not policemen/women (or class monitors). I don't see their role as including the seizing of passenger's (expensive) property. If you want to cause a disruption this will do it. That individual may be a jerk, but s/he could also be a commercially important customer for that airline. (or a retired bum like me )

It is almost impossible to tell if a device is in airplane mode even at a short distance. Yes, there's a little icon but every device is different. I bet you can find an app that will toggle that little icon. On my iPad I can save web pages to a reading list intended to allow you to read it when off-line. It looks like I accessed the net, but I didn't.

I think the industry, and the regulators, need to face reality. These devices will be inadvertently, and intentionally, left on and people will attempt to use them in all phases of the flight. Starting from there they need to consider what needs to be done to ensure safety. I'm not going to suggest what that may be. However I will note that the current rule and procedures are not accomplishing the stated goal.
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