Seating families together?
Seating families together?
Dem lawmaker files bill to require airlines to seat families together - The Hill's Transportation Report
Is about a move in the USA to force airlines to seat families together. Of course, the airlines say they do their best and that families can buy specific seats. I don't know how "family" is defined in the proposed legislation.
There is a bit of me that says it makes a lot of sense to seat children paying a reduced fare next to their parent/guardian. Saves a lot of potential claims about inappropriate behaviour by adults against children and I suppose there is some potential for the adult to help the child in caase of an incident. On the other hand my family once found ourselves with 5 separate seats spread around every economy cabin on a 747. As it happened two were one behind the other so we put Granny and youngest (maybe 8 at the time) there and a charming American couple who had reserved the window and aisle put him in the window seat and all was well. The older boy (10?) was not far from me in the rear cabin so I was able to keep an eye on him. I can't remember where my wife was and don't ask why we didn't put her in the seat in front of youngest it's all to do with staff travel (which of itself explains why we were separated). We survived the flight to San Francisco but then we had warned the boys what might happen and they had flown before so it wasn't a disaster. For a family on their first trip or with even younger children I can see the bill being a boon.
Opinions?
Is about a move in the USA to force airlines to seat families together. Of course, the airlines say they do their best and that families can buy specific seats. I don't know how "family" is defined in the proposed legislation.
There is a bit of me that says it makes a lot of sense to seat children paying a reduced fare next to their parent/guardian. Saves a lot of potential claims about inappropriate behaviour by adults against children and I suppose there is some potential for the adult to help the child in caase of an incident. On the other hand my family once found ourselves with 5 separate seats spread around every economy cabin on a 747. As it happened two were one behind the other so we put Granny and youngest (maybe 8 at the time) there and a charming American couple who had reserved the window and aisle put him in the window seat and all was well. The older boy (10?) was not far from me in the rear cabin so I was able to keep an eye on him. I can't remember where my wife was and don't ask why we didn't put her in the seat in front of youngest it's all to do with staff travel (which of itself explains why we were separated). We survived the flight to San Francisco but then we had warned the boys what might happen and they had flown before so it wasn't a disaster. For a family on their first trip or with even younger children I can see the bill being a boon.
Opinions?
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: n/a
Posts: 1,425
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the event of an accident or incident requiring evacuation not seating families with children together compromises the safety of both the family and other passengers. Human nature would mean that instead of heading towards the nearest exit a parent/ guardian will be heading towards the child. Obstructing the flow of passengers.
Secondly, in aircraft with drop down 02 and children too small to reach the deployed masks, who is responsible or liable for assisting the child?
That said, the phenomenal statistical safety of US and European commercial air transport makes it highly unlikely that it would ever actually be an issue...
Similar to infants in extension seatbelts, ok ish for turbulence possibly worse for the infant in a severe deceleration accident but unlikely to ever be a factor.
Secondly, in aircraft with drop down 02 and children too small to reach the deployed masks, who is responsible or liable for assisting the child?
That said, the phenomenal statistical safety of US and European commercial air transport makes it highly unlikely that it would ever actually be an issue...
Similar to infants in extension seatbelts, ok ish for turbulence possibly worse for the infant in a severe deceleration accident but unlikely to ever be a factor.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 39
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was under the impression that most airlines will strive to get families together anyway, hence why you often get seat changes at the gate or couples or groups of adults who have paid for seats online in advance are suddenly told at the airport that they are no longer in the seats the parted cash for. I know that any airlines I've worked with have usually pre-reserved seats for families before check in opens, provided they have got the correct information from tour operators/travel agents etc in advance.
I am not sure I totally agree that families should sit together no matter what. I mean children should never be parted from an adult, even if it means moving others, but if you have 2 sets of 2 seats left and a family of 4 turn up at -40 then they should accept they will most likely not be sitting together. That seems perfectly fair to me as if you start moving people to accommodate late running families then you are just going to upset other people, who may be regular, loyal customers, which I think is unfair if a perfectly reasonable assignment can be given out of the remaining seats.
I remember being stuck behind a rather irate woman at check in once who was kicking off because the only seats available for her and her daughter (10 years old) were 2 aisle seats over from one another (10C and D if I remember correctly). She claimed her daughter would be "distraught" at being "so far away" from her mother (the girl, might I add looked as if she wanted to be sat as far away as possible from her mother). The check in agent was talking to a brick wall explaining that these were the closest seats left together and that they could have check in online and got seats at least 48 hours in advance, as was stated on their email (which the lady had printed off). She was also told she could ask to swap on board but the irate woman just would not give in until a manager was called over!
I am not sure I totally agree that families should sit together no matter what. I mean children should never be parted from an adult, even if it means moving others, but if you have 2 sets of 2 seats left and a family of 4 turn up at -40 then they should accept they will most likely not be sitting together. That seems perfectly fair to me as if you start moving people to accommodate late running families then you are just going to upset other people, who may be regular, loyal customers, which I think is unfair if a perfectly reasonable assignment can be given out of the remaining seats.
I remember being stuck behind a rather irate woman at check in once who was kicking off because the only seats available for her and her daughter (10 years old) were 2 aisle seats over from one another (10C and D if I remember correctly). She claimed her daughter would be "distraught" at being "so far away" from her mother (the girl, might I add looked as if she wanted to be sat as far away as possible from her mother). The check in agent was talking to a brick wall explaining that these were the closest seats left together and that they could have check in online and got seats at least 48 hours in advance, as was stated on their email (which the lady had printed off). She was also told she could ask to swap on board but the irate woman just would not give in until a manager was called over!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast
Age: 60
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mrs. FF and I once paid for specific seats on an EI flight from BFS to ACE. When we got on board, the entire row was being mucked up by an elderly couple who had been allocated single seats when they cut it fine for check-in. They simply plonked themselves down in a window and a middle seat and refused to move. We had reserved the aisle seat and the middle. Another couple had reserved the aisle and middle on the opposite side. The elderly couple just ignored cabin crew requests to free the seats. They wanted to sit together and that was it. The other couple in the row were moved towards the rear of the aircraft and we got the aisle and middle they had been occupying.
I work for an airline witha free seating policy and even though I champion allocated seating which is likely to be adopted in near future and even though current seating policy causes passengers to be anxious, ultimately I believe that more people end up satisfied with free seating. At present, crew will get involved if a family boards last to ensure children are sat with an adult. Even though we board young children first, we can't and will not allow a child to be sat apart from their parents, however irritated we maybe that they weren't at the gate on time.
Now, the crews definition of sat together and that of the parents isn't always the same. Across the aisle or 2 aisle seats in front of each other are very much seats together in my book but SOME parents still argue the toss. Actually getting the whole family say together is a no no. If it is possible I will of course try but I refuse to move passengers to accomodate it. Some passengers, very kindly, volunteer to accommodate a full family and in the process make the crew appear heartless but otherwise the gesture is greatly appreciated.
People are right to point out that children sat away from parents are an issue when it comes to evacuations but families split up, particularly when each parent has a child will not hinder evacuation.
As for allocated seating, most check in agents will strive to ensure that a child is sat with an adult and with allocated of unallocated seating, such seating issues will only arise when load factors exceed 90/95%.
Now, the crews definition of sat together and that of the parents isn't always the same. Across the aisle or 2 aisle seats in front of each other are very much seats together in my book but SOME parents still argue the toss. Actually getting the whole family say together is a no no. If it is possible I will of course try but I refuse to move passengers to accomodate it. Some passengers, very kindly, volunteer to accommodate a full family and in the process make the crew appear heartless but otherwise the gesture is greatly appreciated.
People are right to point out that children sat away from parents are an issue when it comes to evacuations but families split up, particularly when each parent has a child will not hinder evacuation.
As for allocated seating, most check in agents will strive to ensure that a child is sat with an adult and with allocated of unallocated seating, such seating issues will only arise when load factors exceed 90/95%.
Last edited by easyflyer83; 13th Jul 2012 at 22:58.
See this thread
http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...asia-does.html
A blatant attempt to screw money out of passengers.
http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...asia-does.html
A blatant attempt to screw money out of passengers.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: US
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As someone who travels regularly on a UK airline that for legal reasons has to seat kids next to at least one parent, I have watched the trend lately where many parents--who know what the policy is--rock up at the last minute to board, don't check in online in a timely fashion in order to assure suitable seats are assigned for them.
They also know they do not have to pay for their seat allocations to assure this by paying the seat reservation fee by the airline. Because those who did will be bumped for them on a last come first served basis.
These particular families have sussed the system and know that pax who have paid to reserve a particular seat or checked in online to cadge a seat (or are status pax who can choose a seat pre-24 hrs) will be moved at the last minute to accommodate the family-together requirement.
In these cases they exploit the last-arrived, first served situation where the airline is in a bind to seat a child and parent together for legal reasons.
The airline I travel mostly with has not instituted a fix for this problem of savvy parents exploiting the system either.
I am not anti-family by any means. But to put a stop to this nonsense, I think families traveling together need to be asked to step up to the plate and take on the responsibility to do what is necessary from the airline's point--in advance--to be seated together. The airline could set out a list of steps they need to take to get seats--like waiving the pre-24 hour restriction that single pax have for seat assignment and allowing them to get a group together at any time. That's more already than the non-status pax individual traveller has as a benefit.
Ergo, if a family rocks up at check in with no seats, they take what is on offer--or they are off loaded and sent on a later flight when they can be accommodated. Nobody gets moved for them because they thought their status as a family superceded everybody else's rights.
If it is a full flight and alot of gold card and silver card holders have selected seats--or non status folks have paid to reserve a seat--and these cannot be moved to accommodate kids next to parent, then the family gets off loaded.
You'd be surprised how fast this nonsense with families exploiting the system will get sorted. And believe me many are exploiting this system; I hear the crowing the comments on board.
I run into it all the time on UK-US runs. Families that regularly travel know the airine has to bend over backwards and abuse other pax's rights to the seat they paid extra for or status pax had coming to them.
A policy of offloads would sort this and this nonense would stop.
"Sorry Mr and Mrs X. You did not reserve seats as we asked you to, nor did you follow the pre-travel instructions for families traveling with children, therefore you will not be traveling with us today. Bye Bye."
They also know they do not have to pay for their seat allocations to assure this by paying the seat reservation fee by the airline. Because those who did will be bumped for them on a last come first served basis.
These particular families have sussed the system and know that pax who have paid to reserve a particular seat or checked in online to cadge a seat (or are status pax who can choose a seat pre-24 hrs) will be moved at the last minute to accommodate the family-together requirement.
In these cases they exploit the last-arrived, first served situation where the airline is in a bind to seat a child and parent together for legal reasons.
The airline I travel mostly with has not instituted a fix for this problem of savvy parents exploiting the system either.
I am not anti-family by any means. But to put a stop to this nonsense, I think families traveling together need to be asked to step up to the plate and take on the responsibility to do what is necessary from the airline's point--in advance--to be seated together. The airline could set out a list of steps they need to take to get seats--like waiving the pre-24 hour restriction that single pax have for seat assignment and allowing them to get a group together at any time. That's more already than the non-status pax individual traveller has as a benefit.
Ergo, if a family rocks up at check in with no seats, they take what is on offer--or they are off loaded and sent on a later flight when they can be accommodated. Nobody gets moved for them because they thought their status as a family superceded everybody else's rights.
If it is a full flight and alot of gold card and silver card holders have selected seats--or non status folks have paid to reserve a seat--and these cannot be moved to accommodate kids next to parent, then the family gets off loaded.
You'd be surprised how fast this nonsense with families exploiting the system will get sorted. And believe me many are exploiting this system; I hear the crowing the comments on board.
I run into it all the time on UK-US runs. Families that regularly travel know the airine has to bend over backwards and abuse other pax's rights to the seat they paid extra for or status pax had coming to them.
A policy of offloads would sort this and this nonense would stop.
"Sorry Mr and Mrs X. You did not reserve seats as we asked you to, nor did you follow the pre-travel instructions for families traveling with children, therefore you will not be traveling with us today. Bye Bye."
baggersup - your solution only works with a stupid airline that charges for seat allocation even when you have paid a full fare on a full service airline.
If you book seats on a full service airline, you should have the ability (like Lufthansa) to select your seat well before check in and so the airline knows who is sitting where. Also, any group booking (family or business colleagues) are in the system as a single reference and the computers should be able to account for this when setting out the seating plan.
Any airline that cannot/will not do this, is living in the dark ages.
If you book seats on a full service airline, you should have the ability (like Lufthansa) to select your seat well before check in and so the airline knows who is sitting where. Also, any group booking (family or business colleagues) are in the system as a single reference and the computers should be able to account for this when setting out the seating plan.
Any airline that cannot/will not do this, is living in the dark ages.
Many moons ago BMI sat my three year old on the opposite side of the aisle to his mother ('don't worry, they'll fix it on the plane'). No-one was prepared to move. He was then served a full english breakfast, complete with scrambled egg, and really enjoyed it. Everyone got some, except mum, protected by the food cart in the aisle.
BMI were our 'preferred carrier' because, uniquely on that route, they took and delivered buggies at the gate.
BMI were our 'preferred carrier' because, uniquely on that route, they took and delivered buggies at the gate.
What will be the consequence of this law? People who identify themselves as a 'family' at the time of ticket purchase must be allocated a block of adjacent seats at check in time. Or they'll get bumped off the flight?
Or will the families get priority and the airline will reassign individual fliers' selected seats to make room? Even if that gives the individuals less desirable seats?
Or will the families get priority and the airline will reassign individual fliers' selected seats to make room? Even if that gives the individuals less desirable seats?
I doubt that the lawmaker has thought that far. IF it gets passed it will be down to airlines to find a way to implement it. It's worth remembering that even with paid seating the airline reserves the right to put you somewhere else,
Paxing All Over The World
Another great case of a lawmaker who (living in the land of the free) wants to defy capitalism and control companies over whom he has no control.
It happens the world over. It's one of the few times when I should like carriers ro respond in a RyanAir way and charge for any, and all, service.
It happens the world over. It's one of the few times when I should like carriers ro respond in a RyanAir way and charge for any, and all, service.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Papua New Guinea/Thailand
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First posting in the forums since 2003.
I just wish that airlines stuck the brats and their families (all seemingly incapable of controlling their offspring, or their screaming wailing crying children down in the far rear of the aircraft. Well away from me in Business, and close enough to the flight crew to annoy them all night. Then perhaps, the crews will do something to make the parents control the kids they have put so much physical effort to bring into the world, or offer the screaming uncontrolled hoodlums a drugged drink to make them sleep for the endurance, and those of us up front or close to the disturbances can have a peaceful restful sleep.
Yes I have got a lot more curmudgenly during the last nine years.
I just wish that airlines stuck the brats and their families (all seemingly incapable of controlling their offspring, or their screaming wailing crying children down in the far rear of the aircraft. Well away from me in Business, and close enough to the flight crew to annoy them all night. Then perhaps, the crews will do something to make the parents control the kids they have put so much physical effort to bring into the world, or offer the screaming uncontrolled hoodlums a drugged drink to make them sleep for the endurance, and those of us up front or close to the disturbances can have a peaceful restful sleep.
Yes I have got a lot more curmudgenly during the last nine years.
I really can't see the problem here.
Free seating airlines let those with children in first, so they get to be together.
Regular allocated seating carriers, they know who the family groups are from the reservation, just hard allocate their seats at time of purchase, the airline system makes the allocation. Stick 'em in the less-popular centre section where they can be together. No ability to change seats.
Simple
Free seating airlines let those with children in first, so they get to be together.
Regular allocated seating carriers, they know who the family groups are from the reservation, just hard allocate their seats at time of purchase, the airline system makes the allocation. Stick 'em in the less-popular centre section where they can be together. No ability to change seats.
Simple
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Age: 64
Posts: 3,586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well away from me in Business, and close enough to the flight crew to annoy them all night. Then perhaps, the crews will do something to make the parents control the kids...
Why Tightslot, surely you know the answer to that one from "previous" here?
You must beat them soundly until they whimper into compliance...
Almost becoming a Sticky...
You must beat them soundly until they whimper into compliance...
Almost becoming a Sticky...
Paxing All Over The World
On a LGW to MBJ, we had Y seats in front of the overwing exit (747) and by the toilets. Soon after departure, four or five small children started running up and down the aisles and in and out of the toilets. Their parents no where to be see. Then they sat down on the open space in front of us and were reasonably quiet as they played games - until the next time for running up and down.
The helpful CC aplogised and said, "I know from bitter experience that if I tell the parents to mind their children - I'll get a great mouthfull of abuse"
That was 1989 and I doubt that things have improved since then.
The helpful CC aplogised and said, "I know from bitter experience that if I tell the parents to mind their children - I'll get a great mouthfull of abuse"
That was 1989 and I doubt that things have improved since then.
The helpful CC aplogised and said, "I know from bitter experience that if I tell the parents to mind their children - I'll get a great mouthfull of abuse"
Sometimes a quiet word to the parents on what could happen in an explosive decompression is enough to get them to keep their kids seated. Not too many details, mind, but just enough to imply that little Kevin might go for a free flight of his own would do the job 
Joking, of course.
Sort of.
Once had a couple of kids running amok on a flight, up and down the aisles, mum of course was too busy reading a magazine and drinking wine to care. Asked her several times to keep the kids out of the galley, with explanations of what might happen. Couldn't care less, obviously, as this behaviour continued for some time, with us having to interrupt the service to carry the kids back to their seats on a regular basis.
A little while later, we were preparing for the service and one of the crew was trying to get a stuck cart out of the stowage. She put her full weight into and pulled the cart, finally getting it free right at the moment that little darling ran back into the galley, whamming him with it and bowling him over. Kid lay on the floor for a second or two stunned, then proceeded to scream its lungs out, she knelt down and said simply, "That's what happens when we play where we are not supposed to" marched kid back to mum and we didn't see him for the rest of the flight. Of course mum tried to kick up a fuss and say she would complain but the whole thing was witnessed by an FF in the bulkhead row who turned around and told her he was going to write to the airline outlining the whole incident and she had better start to parent her kids or else! Love our FFs
Moral of the story, sometimes sitting kids with their parents doesn't work either....
Joking, of course.
Sort of.
Once had a couple of kids running amok on a flight, up and down the aisles, mum of course was too busy reading a magazine and drinking wine to care. Asked her several times to keep the kids out of the galley, with explanations of what might happen. Couldn't care less, obviously, as this behaviour continued for some time, with us having to interrupt the service to carry the kids back to their seats on a regular basis.
A little while later, we were preparing for the service and one of the crew was trying to get a stuck cart out of the stowage. She put her full weight into and pulled the cart, finally getting it free right at the moment that little darling ran back into the galley, whamming him with it and bowling him over. Kid lay on the floor for a second or two stunned, then proceeded to scream its lungs out, she knelt down and said simply, "That's what happens when we play where we are not supposed to" marched kid back to mum and we didn't see him for the rest of the flight. Of course mum tried to kick up a fuss and say she would complain but the whole thing was witnessed by an FF in the bulkhead row who turned around and told her he was going to write to the airline outlining the whole incident and she had better start to parent her kids or else! Love our FFs
Moral of the story, sometimes sitting kids with their parents doesn't work either....