The negative aspects of LCC's

[L'aviateur]

Whilst Low Cost Carriers have brought down prices, it seems that they have left quite a few negatives. To me, the idea of a Low Cost Carrier is a basic A to B ticket, nothing extra and easily booked.

The Low Cost Carriers however seem to be anything but, and find everyway possible to sneak in extra costs or catch people out, instead of being straight up. It seems that if they are having to resort to sneaky tricks, they aren't so good.

My biggest annoyance however, is when they have take over routes on their A320 and 737s which have previously been served by the full fare carriers in smaller turboprops, undercut these airlines forcing them out, and then decided in the winter the route isn't worth operating and left the airport without any service.... thanks!

Finally, is the airlines (specifically Flybe), who seem to have this attitude that they if the flights they have scheduled aren't full enough, that close to the departure time they can cancel the schedule for 'technical reasons' and transfer everyone onto the next flight.

I do think we have some things to thank the LCC's for, but are they really that great now? Do they really offer value for money?

[PAXboy]

Well ... this subject has been covered so many times and in so many threads in so many different forums of PPRuNe that, to point you to them will take a long time. For example: http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...merged-ii.html [note that this is second such thread on FR alone!]
The key points (on ANY LCC) are that:

1. They do not 'sneak in' ANY cost - unless they manage to hypnotise you. It is you - and you alone - who electronically agrees to what they are going to charge. Many threads in PPRuNe on this topic.
2. If they decrease prices and expand capacity for part of the year and then reverse that - it's called 'capitalism'. If you can prove that two companies colluded to put another out of business, or that one company used predatory pricing - then do notify the trading standards officer in the area where the offence took place. Many threads in PPRuNe on this topic.
3. If you have proof that a carrier is using 'technical failure' as a ruse for commercially non viable flight. - then do notify the trading standards officer in the area where the offence took place. Many threads in PPRuNe on this topic.

I don't mean to give offence to you but these questions are all very old ground and I'm sure you can find threads to revitalise, rather than starting the whole shebang all over again.

[Load Toad]

Nobody is forced to fly 'em.
If you don't like their T&C - don't fly 'em.
If enough people don't fly 'em things will change.
Things aren't changing so I guess...

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by PAXboy

They do not 'sneak in' ANY cost - unless they manage to hypnotise you. It is you - and you alone - who electronically agrees to what they are going to charge.

Sure they do. How else do you describe default-ticked check boxes that are in the lower area of the booking web page so that you have to scroll down to see have been ticked. You just notice on the final summary page that the price is more than you were expecting. And then you have to work back to find them.

Anyone who goes on a web designers course will be told of such "tricks of the trade" to covertly increase revenue without most of the imbecile punters realising it.

[L'aviateur]

I honestly think that British people are becoming particularly accepting of being 'screwed' at every opportunity.
I personally cant keep up with the latest 'screws' that go on when I go return to the UK, and have seen many foreign friends who have visited and been caught out with these what I suppose could be called 'Legal Scams', and were quite shocked by the kind of 'tricks' that LCC's the UK pull. I'm embarrased for the country when we allow ourselves to become known as untrustworthy.
I have found booking with Low Cost Carriers in the Middle East and Asia much much easier.

[Torque Tonight]

I just un-tick the tickboxes for items that I don't want. It's not rocket science. And if you don't even scroll to the bottom of the page when you're buying something on a website then you're probably beyond help.

[Hotel Tango]

And what many people still fail to grasp (if they did their sums right) is that many of these so-called LCCs are not in fact that much cheaper (unless you can be in time to book the first few seats sold at loss making prices) than many of the so-called legacy airlines. The one big difference is that with the legacy airlines you still receive better customer comfort, service and assistance. But even in the LCC world there are significant differences between airlines. I gladly use Air Berlin but stay well away from Ryanair.

[smith]

To me, the idea of a Low Cost Carrier is a basic A to B ticket,

In Ryanair's case it is usually 30miles from A to 70km from B (eg try flying "Glasgow" to "Paris" on Ryanair).

[Torque Tonight]

I know you trot out this 'joke' periodically (last seen on 8 Oct) but it really isn't very amusing.

If on this occassion you were trying to use it as a serious point I would tell you that not everyone wants to fly from A to B. Many people want to fly from C to D, and if that route is viable Ryanair will open it up. It will only be viable if people choose to buy tickets to fly on it. So, the relative proximity of A to C and B to D is pretty irrelevant. FR successfully operate many routes which simply didn't exist before. As always the bottom line is, if you don't like it don't buy tickets for it (sit on an internet forum and make tired old wisecracks instead).

[Octopussy2]

To be fair, the routes tend to be advertised as being between "Glasgow" and "Paris" (with the name of the actual airport in brackets/small print somewhere), NOT the actual locations where those flights depart and land, so smith's joke isn't entirely off the mark.

I'm impressed at the level of recall though; not sure I'd remember a particular post from 8 October...I must be too busy

[Torque Tonight]

Maybe my memory still works OK, but repeated exposure does tend to aid recall. By the way I have this great NEW joke about an aircraft carrier and a lighthouse. Anyone... anyone....?

[Torque Tonight]

the routes tend to be advertised as being between "Glasgow" and "Paris" (with the name of the actual airport in brackets/small print somewhere), NOT the actual locations where those flights depart and land

Hmmm. I can see how that's difficult.

[PAXboy]

WHBM

How else do you describe default-ticked check boxes ...

Hotel Tango

many of these so-called LCCs are not in fact that much cheaper ... I gladly use Air Berlin but stay well away from Ryanair.

In reverse, I agree that Air Berlin is good, along with Norwegian. I buy on a number of factors of which price is but one. For many, price is the only factor.

Yes, WHBM, it can be irritating - especially when you find that some aspect of the form filling has not worked and they return you to the page with a red warning and so you examine the details you have filled in. Meanwhile, they have automatically 'rechecked' all the default boxes that you 'unchecked'. Consequently, I do not use them again (websites selling things other than aircraft tickets do the same) and advise friends not to.

Why am I not more irritated by this? I have grown cynical and assume that everyone IS trying to rip me off. I have come to think the worst of just about every seller on the planet. I find this a better route than being irritated/angered. The world has changed from when I was a child and, even if there are aspects of it that I do not like, there is nothing I can do about it except not use these companies. If I find they are the only supplier for a given product/service, then I approach with care.

L'aviateur

I'm embarrased for the country when we allow ourselves to become known as untrustworthy.

But we ARE unstrustworthy! The UK is 'at the end of empire' and this kind of greed, double dealing, and decandent decline is what ALL successful countries will eventually come to. One of the most well documented examples being The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, by Edward Gibbon. There is a fascinating statement in that article:

According to Gibbon, the Roman Empire succumbed to barbarian invasions in large part due to the gradual loss of civic virtue among its citizens.

There is a little way yet to run before total collapse in the UK but it is inevitable and just mankind doing what mankind does. So, when doing anything in the UK, bear in mind what the Romans said: Caveat emptor - Let the buyer beware!

[smith]

Torque,

Ha ha ha ha ha

Did you get a personality by-pass for xmas? Yes it's meant to be a joke.

I don't recall in the years before FR thinking to myself I'd really like to fly from Prestwick to Beauvais for a trip to Paris, however I did always think I'd like to fly from Glasgow to Paris.

Anyway, as I say it was a joke and you know I take any opportunity to bash FR and I only ever use it when we get the standard "LCC's are a great way of getting from A to B yada, yada, yada" diatribe. I use my joke and will continue to use it every time some know-it-all uses this irritating phrase.

[Torque Tonight]

You should buy more expensive christmas crackers if that's your idea of a joke. Keep telling it by all means, but expect to get similar reactions each time.

I don't recall in the years before FR thinking to myself I'd really like to fly from Prestwick to Beauvais

You may be astounded to learn that the airline industry doesn't revolve solely around you. There are obviously sufficient people who want to fly that route to justify its existence.

you know I take any opportunity to bash FR

And you know that many of us who work in this sector get sick and tired of criticism when it is inaccurate, unfounded, unreasonable, or nothing more than tiresome old jokes. Thanks for the 'personality bypass' gag by the way, that was one of your funniest.

[WHBM]

There are several comments here about "rip-off Britain" etc, and also about Ryanair.

May I point out that Ryanair is an Irish airline, managed from Dublin and with the website written in Dublin. For accuracy, please ensure you write about "rip-off Ireland" in these instances.

[Avionker]

The biggest negative aspect of LCCs is that we, in the aviation industry, now get paid less.

End of discussion.

[jackieofalltrades]

Why am I not more irritated by this? I have grown cynical and assume that everyone IS trying to rip me off. I have come to think the worst of just about every seller on the planet. I find this a better route than being irritated/angered.

I agree, and tend to follow a similar vein when shopping online. I almost feel happy when I've unchecked all the default add-ons. It's like I'm actually getting a bargain, paying less for something than the full price. (I know that's not the case in reality, but it still gives me that sensation)

[Octopussy2]

Sorry TT, you've misunderstood me; I mean "advertised" in the usual sense ie. on billboards etc. Of course by the time you get as far as the booking page on the Ryannair site they would have to include the information, otherwise people would fetch up at the wrong airport, non?

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by Octopussy2

they would have to include the information, otherwise people would fetch up at the wrong airport, non?

This is by no means unknown with Ryanair ticketed pax, people turning up in the Glasgow terminal for departures from Glasgow Prestwick being a particular issue.