Sterile area at MAN
Thread Starter
Sterile area at MAN
One of the basic principle of sterile area management is to separate outgoing and incoming passenger streams.
MAN T1 appears to have a problem.
Waiting for a bmi-operated LH flight at Gate 23 the other day when - after all other passengers had disembarked and trudged down the walkway to Immigration - a group of 3 WCHR pax plus various accompanying family members appeared from the airbridge, were deposited in the departure lounge and waited there for 5 minutes until the official airport WCHR drivers turned up to collect them and wheel them off to wherever. Arrivals probably.
I can understand the reason - the path from gate to Immigration dips and dives through the bowels of the airport up and down innumerable flights of stairs and thus an obstacle course for the mobility-challenged - but I didn't see any measures taken to prevent intermingling with outgoing i.e sterile pax.
I'm sure MAN airport has processes and procedures in place (doubtless "robust", as they invariably are these days...), but they must be invisible...
MAN T1 appears to have a problem.
Waiting for a bmi-operated LH flight at Gate 23 the other day when - after all other passengers had disembarked and trudged down the walkway to Immigration - a group of 3 WCHR pax plus various accompanying family members appeared from the airbridge, were deposited in the departure lounge and waited there for 5 minutes until the official airport WCHR drivers turned up to collect them and wheel them off to wherever. Arrivals probably.
I can understand the reason - the path from gate to Immigration dips and dives through the bowels of the airport up and down innumerable flights of stairs and thus an obstacle course for the mobility-challenged - but I didn't see any measures taken to prevent intermingling with outgoing i.e sterile pax.
I'm sure MAN airport has processes and procedures in place (doubtless "robust", as they invariably are these days...), but they must be invisible...
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(This is a genuine question, I'm not being smart)
Is separating incoming and outcoming passengers one of the "basic principles of sterile area management"? I can think of plenty of airports - especially in the US - where there is no separation. Presumably they don;t think it is necessary. What risks does that create since everyone airside has presumably been security screened somewhere?
Is separating incoming and outcoming passengers one of the "basic principles of sterile area management"? I can think of plenty of airports - especially in the US - where there is no separation. Presumably they don;t think it is necessary. What risks does that create since everyone airside has presumably been security screened somewhere?
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I'm not sure that this is limited to MAN. I've been at (I think but not sure) Aberdeen before where the incoming passengers walked right past me waiting to board the aircraft back to Luton.
Paxing All Over The World
The questions are:
- Are international and domestic pax able to intermingle?
- If so, can they do so with planning? That is, that the gate/s to be used for the arriving and departing aircraft can be reliably known in enough time to plan any meeting/exchange?
Newark
Flying last summer on Continental, we arrived from the UK, departed and arrived from USA flights and departed back to the UK all from the same lounge with total intermingling of arriving and departing passengers. I could even by Duty Free inbound if I wanted I suppose. Why the separation in the UK?
Thread Starter
Appears to depend on whether there's a central security checkpoint or gate security checkpoints.
A relevant discussion here http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...assengers.html.
The issue is not whether one SHOULD be able to mix with outbound passengers on arrival, but the fact that MAN airport DOESN'T want this to happen (hence putting us behind a glass wall and sending us through tunnels) and nevertheless tolerating a situation where inbound WCHRs CAN mix with outbound pax
A relevant discussion here http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...assengers.html.
The issue is not whether one SHOULD be able to mix with outbound passengers on arrival, but the fact that MAN airport DOESN'T want this to happen (hence putting us behind a glass wall and sending us through tunnels) and nevertheless tolerating a situation where inbound WCHRs CAN mix with outbound pax
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Is the sterile area only a UK thing then? I had never experienced anything other than it until I flew into CUN on Aug 23rd (BHX-CUN-BHX on TOM568/9) and there is definitely no sterile area at CUN.
In fact when I arrived I was really confused thinking that they had accidentally let everyone into departures but no, this is how it is done there. You arrive through the jetbridge, walk to the top and then cut across the departure lounge to go through to the 'Migracion' Immigration area.
We had friends on the inbound LGW first choice flight on Tuesday, we were flying back to BHX and we managed to get a chat with them, in the departure area before the went off to immigration, it was so weird.
Edit - actually come to think of it I am wrong! I have seen this before at EDI, I was staying with my brother for a week and my mother was coming for the following week, she arrived on the inbound BE EMB195 and we managed to get a chat with her then
In fact when I arrived I was really confused thinking that they had accidentally let everyone into departures but no, this is how it is done there. You arrive through the jetbridge, walk to the top and then cut across the departure lounge to go through to the 'Migracion' Immigration area.
We had friends on the inbound LGW first choice flight on Tuesday, we were flying back to BHX and we managed to get a chat with them, in the departure area before the went off to immigration, it was so weird.
Edit - actually come to think of it I am wrong! I have seen this before at EDI, I was staying with my brother for a week and my mother was coming for the following week, she arrived on the inbound BE EMB195 and we managed to get a chat with her then
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In the U.S., the "airside" part of the terminal with arriving and departing domestic passengers freely intermingle under the therory that everyone has gone through security and have been 'sterile" since doing so.
For international flights, arriving passengers are segregated from everyone else until they have cleared Immigration. These passengers must claim their luggage and clear Customs even if they are transiting to another U.S. destination. At the exit to Customs they recheck their bags and exit into the "landside" or non-sterile part of the terminal.
At that point they must go back through security to enter the arrival and departure gate area to connect to their flight.
As for wheelchair passengers, I do not know of any U.S. airport where there are not lifts or other accomodations for wheelchairs on the route leading to Immigration. The Americans with Disabilities Act has made this mandatory in public and almost all business establisments in the U.S. for a number of years.
For international flights, arriving passengers are segregated from everyone else until they have cleared Immigration. These passengers must claim their luggage and clear Customs even if they are transiting to another U.S. destination. At the exit to Customs they recheck their bags and exit into the "landside" or non-sterile part of the terminal.
At that point they must go back through security to enter the arrival and departure gate area to connect to their flight.
As for wheelchair passengers, I do not know of any U.S. airport where there are not lifts or other accomodations for wheelchairs on the route leading to Immigration. The Americans with Disabilities Act has made this mandatory in public and almost all business establisments in the U.S. for a number of years.
Paxing All Over The World
RevMan2
And the fact that BAA DID want this to happen at T5. So that they could have one shopping area instrad of two and tempt shop owners with a bigger 'catch' as they might get inbound pax deciding to buy.
As I understand it, through this forum, BAA got the rules changed to allow them to have one area for all pax. I sit to be corrected. Actually, it's Sunday afternoon, so I think I'll lie down instead...
the fact that MAN airport DOESN'T want this to happen (hence putting us behind a glass wall and sending us through tunnels) and nevertheless tolerating a situation where inbound WCHRs CAN mix with outbound pax
As I understand it, through this forum, BAA got the rules changed to allow them to have one area for all pax. I sit to be corrected. Actually, it's Sunday afternoon, so I think I'll lie down instead...
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Missing word here, sterile areas are between arriving and departing passengers internationally, hence GLA, EDI and even LHR and LGW can mix domestic arrivals and departures.
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Last weekend I flew from PDL (Azores) to LGW via MAN. Passed through a perfectly thorough and professional security at PDL. On arrival at MAN had to disembark, pass through UK security, and then re-board before outgoing passengers (MAN-LGW-PDL) were allowed to join us on the aircraft. Passport control was not until Gatwick.
Can anyone explain why, since we had been sterile from departure at PDL, we had to disembark and pass through UK security at MAN - is this simply a distrust of Portugese security measures? Outbound passengers joining at MAN were presumably sterile too so where and what is the risk?
Thanks.
Can anyone explain why, since we had been sterile from departure at PDL, we had to disembark and pass through UK security at MAN - is this simply a distrust of Portugese security measures? Outbound passengers joining at MAN were presumably sterile too so where and what is the risk?
Thanks.
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Perhaps they wanted to do a thorough cleaning of the aircraft. With that triangle routing there may be few opportunities. Gives you something (totally useless) to do while you are waiting for them.
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AFAIK it's DFT regulations that any aircraft arriving from outside of the UK then going onwards to somewhere else must have all the passengers disembark then be re-screened.
At MAN, SATA and PK do this regularly but you also get the odd TCX/TOM flight flying TFS-MAN-NCL etc.
Madness, I know
At MAN, SATA and PK do this regularly but you also get the odd TCX/TOM flight flying TFS-MAN-NCL etc.
Madness, I know
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Thanks 750XL. I'm surprised that this applies to EU originated flights as I thought there was a common security practice within the EU that could be trusted.
Since there is no check of the aircraft after disembark for personal items left on board (like my bottle of water and other passenger's carry-ons I saw left under vacated seats) one can only conclude that this is a completely pointless procedure. If they are going to inconvenience people like this for security reasons at least do them the courtesy of doing it properly and thoroughly.
thanks for listening
stonemullion
Since there is no check of the aircraft after disembark for personal items left on board (like my bottle of water and other passenger's carry-ons I saw left under vacated seats) one can only conclude that this is a completely pointless procedure. If they are going to inconvenience people like this for security reasons at least do them the courtesy of doing it properly and thoroughly.
thanks for listening
stonemullion
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The relevant point is where the passengers were security screened; was it in the UK or elsewhere ? Passengers arriving at a UK airport directly from another UK airport will be allowed to mix with security-cleared departing passengers whilst passengers arriving from outwith the UK will be kept completely separated until landside, i.e. have passed through baggage claim and customs.
The same basic rule normally also applies to transit passengers at UK airports: those in transit from other UK airports need not be screened again as long as they have not been able to mix with other non-screened passengers, or with ex-foreign passengers. All transit passengers who have arrived from abroad must be UK screened before being allowed to board their onward flight.
The same basic rule normally also applies to transit passengers at UK airports: those in transit from other UK airports need not be screened again as long as they have not been able to mix with other non-screened passengers, or with ex-foreign passengers. All transit passengers who have arrived from abroad must be UK screened before being allowed to board their onward flight.
