BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions V
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Anyone seen Holley's Employment Tribunal judgement?
Any more details on his Caution for Harassment?
Any info on those BASSA Accounts?
Who is standing for election to take over the Malone/Holley double act in October 2011?
When will Red Len finally admit he never intends to authorise a strike?
What are the "weird and wondrous" tactics we were promised?
Any more details on his Caution for Harassment?
Any info on those BASSA Accounts?
Who is standing for election to take over the Malone/Holley double act in October 2011?
When will Red Len finally admit he never intends to authorise a strike?
What are the "weird and wondrous" tactics we were promised?
Another angle - the Pension Fund
Another angle - the Pension Fund
We must not forget that BA is a small airline attached to a very large Pension Fund.
Trying to either destroy BA, or to hinder its financial progress, could create a massive own-goal. BA needs money to replace its old (but well maintained) planes, but it needs money for its pension plan even more. I wonder whether any of the bassa folk - retired or not - have even spotted this. If the Pension goes down the tube, it impacts both Pensions in payment, and service so far.
However, doesn't it look as though the dispute is over?
If 5,800 voted for a strike, of whom only 40% would actually strike, then out of a workforce of approx. 14,000 would BA actually notice the strike? - Other than the headache for the crew scheduling team?
We must not forget that BA is a small airline attached to a very large Pension Fund.
Trying to either destroy BA, or to hinder its financial progress, could create a massive own-goal. BA needs money to replace its old (but well maintained) planes, but it needs money for its pension plan even more. I wonder whether any of the bassa folk - retired or not - have even spotted this. If the Pension goes down the tube, it impacts both Pensions in payment, and service so far.
However, doesn't it look as though the dispute is over?
If 5,800 voted for a strike, of whom only 40% would actually strike, then out of a workforce of approx. 14,000 would BA actually notice the strike? - Other than the headache for the crew scheduling team?
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Not quite. When the last strikes were carried out, approximately 7,500 crew voted to strike. Willie Walsh told City investors (so these numbers have to be accurate) that approximately 4,900 crew went on strike and of those 600 returned to work during the strikes.
So only 65% of Yes votes actually acted in accordance with their voting pattern.
Add to the fact that this time strikers will know that the removal of staff travel is no empty threat and how much basic pay they will lose and how futile the strikes have been, I'd estimate that support for an actual strike will be considerably lower.
So only 65% of Yes votes actually acted in accordance with their voting pattern.
Add to the fact that this time strikers will know that the removal of staff travel is no empty threat and how much basic pay they will lose and how futile the strikes have been, I'd estimate that support for an actual strike will be considerably lower.
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approximately 4,900 crew went on strike and of those 600 returned to work
The daily figure is far more important than the total, a well supported strike on the first day would scare the heck out of BA management and it is this vague hope that BASSA cling to. In reality these things tend to go with the average, plus or minus a small deviation and BA will have planned carefully for that, BASSA are probably not organised and forward thinking. Certainly recent history shows a particular lack of forward thinking on their behalf, I expect no different this time around. BASSA's thinking is all tactical and not strategic.
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The number of 4,900 was given well after the strikes had ended. The difference may be due to crew who had called in sick and had deemed to have participated in strike action (and lost staff travel)?
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The point about the numbers is largely academic 4900 or 5700, as I said the important number is the actual number of no-shows on day 1 of the strike, should UNITE decide that is what they are going to do.
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Point taken. Perversely, Unite has given BA a whole year to analyse attendance data from the last 22 days of strike action by route, fleet etc as well as training up VCC and recruiting onto Mixed Fleet.
Even if there is some disruption to long haul, the JBA with AA gives BA the entire TATL-Europe network of AA to reroute any displaced pax and of course there is the network of Iberia post the merger.
Talk of "guerilla tactics" and "weird and wondrous" initiatives is nothing more than bluster.
And the elephant in the room is still the issue of protection.
Even if there is some disruption to long haul, the JBA with AA gives BA the entire TATL-Europe network of AA to reroute any displaced pax and of course there is the network of Iberia post the merger.
Talk of "guerilla tactics" and "weird and wondrous" initiatives is nothing more than bluster.
And the elephant in the room is still the issue of protection.
Last edited by LD12986; 6th Apr 2011 at 12:42.
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When considering yes, or for that matter no, voters the numbers do not accurately reflect the position.
As I understand it a 33%, for instance, worker has a whole vote as does a 100% worker.
On the day the actual number of potential strikers is probably a lot less than the voting figures would indicate.
A strike would have to last quite a while to get through all those part timers.
You may even find that some of the non striking part timers would be prepared to move into being 100% workers to cover strikers and earn a bit of extra money.
It is a pity we don't have the numbers of "full time equivalent" voters.
As I understand it a 33%, for instance, worker has a whole vote as does a 100% worker.
On the day the actual number of potential strikers is probably a lot less than the voting figures would indicate.
A strike would have to last quite a while to get through all those part timers.
You may even find that some of the non striking part timers would be prepared to move into being 100% workers to cover strikers and earn a bit of extra money.
It is a pity we don't have the numbers of "full time equivalent" voters.
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With BA knowing in advance of any new strike the names of those who went on strike last time, should strike dates be called then all BA has to do is not roster those known CC during the strike dates. Given the relatively low percentage of strking CC compared to non-striking CC that BA has available (including VCCs and MF) then for the few days of any strike action BA would have no trouble whatsoever having sufficient staff to be able to roster known non-strikers during that time and, hey presto, all schedules will fly 100%.
Having already telegraphed to BA who is going to strike, the effectiveness of the Union's strike action and even more so its so-called "guerilla tactics" are pretty much negated.
That's assuming the Union decides to stick its neck out and risk a potentially unprotected strke call in the first place.
It's going to be interesting to see the fumbling, guffling, pathetic bravado of an excuse that the Union comes up with in two week's time when it chooses (yet again) not to call a strike. It'll probably be along the same lines as with TW last time where he stated talks with BA were at an advanced stage and didn't want to upset them - only for BASSA to reject the outcome anyway!
Having already telegraphed to BA who is going to strike, the effectiveness of the Union's strike action and even more so its so-called "guerilla tactics" are pretty much negated.
That's assuming the Union decides to stick its neck out and risk a potentially unprotected strke call in the first place.
It's going to be interesting to see the fumbling, guffling, pathetic bravado of an excuse that the Union comes up with in two week's time when it chooses (yet again) not to call a strike. It'll probably be along the same lines as with TW last time where he stated talks with BA were at an advanced stage and didn't want to upset them - only for BASSA to reject the outcome anyway!
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With BA knowing in advance of any new strike the names of those who went on strike last time, should strike dates be called then all BA has to do is not roster those known CC during the strike dates
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JT - Knowing the scheduled roster release dates and that last month the Union were already balloting for a strike, the outcome of which would have to be translated into action with 28 days of the published ballot result date, if I were BA then I would have not rostered or rostered very thinly the prior striking staff for this and next month's schedules favouring instead those I knew would be prepared to work.
Any a priori knowledge is fair game to use by either side to mitigate effects when at war and knowing well in advance your enemy's time, place, choice of weapons and names of who is going to attack is very useful in preparing your defence to counter that action!
Does anyone know if BA have done this? Have last time's strikers been rostered unusually lighter duties for the next two months?
Any a priori knowledge is fair game to use by either side to mitigate effects when at war and knowing well in advance your enemy's time, place, choice of weapons and names of who is going to attack is very useful in preparing your defence to counter that action!
Does anyone know if BA have done this? Have last time's strikers been rostered unusually lighter duties for the next two months?
Last edited by AV Flyer; 6th Apr 2011 at 17:53.
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Since this is apaprently a "Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight)" forum, can I ask if anybody knows anything about the possible/likely strike dates??
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Or, indeed, should we be discussing possible BA tactics on a Public forum? 
Taking all today's posts on board, both here on the CC Thread, there's certainly a lot more to the issue than simply how many people placed "X" in the box [or a tick, or initials, whatever ... I've seen so many of those].
Some will definitely go on strike ... for political reasons. Maybe 500?
Some will definitely go on strike ... out of vindictiveness. Maybe 1,000?
Some may go on strike ... if they're rostered, unless they need/want the money.
Some won't go on strike ... they just wanted to send a message
Out of the 5,800 who managed to vote on a nebulous question, with minimal information about the issue and the potential consequences ... how many are actually going to do it on the occasional day they're rostered?
Can't do it down-route, as I understand it: so that's a load of the "Reps" off the hook
Can't strike, 'cos I've suddenly got a really bad cold but I'll be OK in a day or two. Awww - Diddums
How does anyone think BA assures people that 100% of Long-Haul, etc etc is going to happen unless they have a VERY good idea what they have to cover with VCC? That's not "aircraft parked at Shannon and Cardiff", that's the reality of being a plc and having to be up front. They will fly the schedules.
Strikes? Bah and humbug.
The only real losers will be those who lose pay from posturing.
BA will prove, yet again, that they can operate under these circumstances ... if they ever happen.
See you at LHR at the end of the month, with a smile on my face and a Boarding Pass in my hand
Taking all today's posts on board, both here on the CC Thread, there's certainly a lot more to the issue than simply how many people placed "X" in the box [or a tick, or initials, whatever ... I've seen so many of those].
Some will definitely go on strike ... for political reasons. Maybe 500?
Some will definitely go on strike ... out of vindictiveness. Maybe 1,000?
Some may go on strike ... if they're rostered, unless they need/want the money.
Some won't go on strike ... they just wanted to send a message
Out of the 5,800 who managed to vote on a nebulous question, with minimal information about the issue and the potential consequences ... how many are actually going to do it on the occasional day they're rostered?
Can't do it down-route, as I understand it: so that's a load of the "Reps" off the hook
Can't strike, 'cos I've suddenly got a really bad cold but I'll be OK in a day or two. Awww - Diddums
How does anyone think BA assures people that 100% of Long-Haul, etc etc is going to happen unless they have a VERY good idea what they have to cover with VCC? That's not "aircraft parked at Shannon and Cardiff", that's the reality of being a plc and having to be up front. They will fly the schedules.
Strikes? Bah and humbug.
The only real losers will be those who lose pay from posturing.
BA will prove, yet again, that they can operate under these circumstances ... if they ever happen.
See you at LHR at the end of the month, with a smile on my face and a Boarding Pass in my hand
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Since this is apaprently a "Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight)" forum, can I ask if anybody knows anything about the possible/likely strike dates??
Though, I think it is more likely than not there will be no further strikes because of the legal issues involved.
As for BA rostering non-strikers, this would provoke uproar amongst BASSA for identifying strikers and not following industrial agreements on scheduling.
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Originally Posted by bs13
Since this is apaprently a "Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight)" forum, can I ask if anybody knows anything about the possible/likely strike dates??
1. There are no strike dates yet. They might occur in late April ...please don't ask me to regurgitate the calculations, I can't even find them!!
2. Any strikes will have ZERO impact on the SLF [unless you're concerned about Domestic flights, in which case a train/car option would be worth considering].
It seems that Unite [BASSA's Big Daddy] is trying to talk to BA, which makes a nice change. Political posturing, and chest puffing will follow. Nobody even knows whether the strike would actually be 'protected', as BA has chosen [to date] not to test that in Court.
Suggestion ... book BA, and fly BA, as I do and have done through 2 of these 'strikes'. The main effects are that militant CC lose money, BASSA loses credibility, and we SLF fly from A to B as usual.
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One could consider that Unite are having difficulty persuading the BASSA Gen Sec and his Reps, and indeed Amicus/CC89, to sit round the same table as BA?
Ahhh, such a United front against the demonic BA
Or there could be completely different reasons, like "Legal Advice"
Who knows ... it's their problem
Ahhh, such a United front against the demonic BA
Or there could be completely different reasons, like "Legal Advice"
Who knows ... it's their problem