Looking for answers please

[fearfull flyer]

Hello I hope no one is going to shout at me for posting on here, I'm not a trainee pilot, and neither do I work for any airline, just a fearfull flyer whos hoping some very kind person on here can put my mind at rest on a few questions before my flight to Murcia Spain in June.

I'm flying to Murcia in June with Jet2 and im really worried as I'v read that most of their aircrafts are over 20years old, should i be worried about that..? also in an attempt to ease my fear of flying iv been searching the net and rarther that put my mind at ease iv made my fear worse as I'v ended up coming across all the horror stories, ie plane crash's near miss's etc, one I'v just read all about is the fatal crash of the 981 turkish flight from paris to london where the cargo doors came open, I'v also read a few stories similiar to this happening. Can anyone tell me what the likely hood of the cargo doors coming open on my flight..?

Im hoping to eliviate all these fears before my flight, so that myself and family can enjoy a family holiday, my daughter who is only 8yrs old is really looking forward to it, but to be honest all I want to do at this moment in time is cancel it and settle for a wet rainy week in a caravan somewhere.

[west lakes]

Can I advise a read through the FAQs at the top of this forum

http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...slf-forum.html

[Hotel Tango]

fearfull flyer, are you just as worried when you step into your car? Most probably you never even give it a thought. If you have an irrational fear of flying (to the extent that you need to quote an accident which happened some 35+ years ago) then I doubt that anything I or anyone else say will fully put your mind at rest.

There is no absolute guarantee that you won't become a statistic but the likelyhood is so miniscule that you may have a thousand fold better odds winning the jackpot in the lotto. Don't let it ruin your holidays with your family. If need be, have a stiff drink before departure ( not too many mind ) and you'll be fine.

[lurkinginSTO]

I understand what you are going through because I'm a fearful flyer myself. Many times, a person becomes fearful of flying when going through a change in their life, like a separation, unemployment, a child birth, etc etc. Maybe it would help you to write down exactly what in the flying process makes you nervous and then seek answers to that, for example, to know what is the cause of a particular noise. Cargo doors opening during a flight is such a rare event that you should be more afraid by simply walking around the house, do you know how many accidents people have at home?
If you think it could be helpful to talk to a psychologist about this, do it, as fast as possible. And on the day of the flight do two things:
- Tell the cabin crew you are afraid to fly. They are incredibly professional people and will help reassuring you everything is ok. Do it when you come in the airplane. I am so thankful to these extraordinary people who have many times dedicated so much attention to the silly crying fearful lady
- Focus on the fact that you are going to have a great time at your destination. Try to learn a bit about how airplanes work and tell your daughter during the trip, it's one way to entertain her and to reassure both of you (plus cool points for you for knowing so much )
There's a lot of precious info on the above linked FAQ, do have a read through it, and enjoy your flight.

[fearfull flyer]

Re: looking for answers

Thank you for the reply, the link was very helpfull

[fearfull flyer]

Re: looking for answers

Thank you all for your replys and for taking the time to do so, very much appreciated. I would love to be able to have a drink or 2 before my flight but as my flight is at 8am i dont think i could face alcohol so early, more's the pitty as im sure it would help lots lolx

[west lakes]

It may also be worth googling "Fear of Flying Courses" there are a number of them available in the UK

[Abusing_the_sky]

fearfull flyer, as an ex cabin crew (recently changed careers) , may I give you these tips:

- Please DO let the cabin crew know about your fear of flying; they might not sit you down and reassure you straight after you stepped into the aircraft, but they will get back to you with reassurance and a smile on their face on the ground, usually after they have finished their head count.

- Ask as many questions as you can, including "if the aircraft is 20 years old, will everything be OK" - I bet the answer is going to be "YES!". You see, all aircrafts have to be checked thoroughly by the engineers, and if there's something wrong with one that will require say, 3 weeks waiting for a part, that aircraft WILL be grounded until it's fixed and signed off by an engineer.

- Safety is the first and prime concern to all airlines; look at a(ny) airline as a business that's based on safety. Without SAFETY, it cannot exist as a business. Thus an airline will not operate a(ny) route with a faulty aircraft (by that I mean something that could endanger the safety of it's passengers and crew, not a, say, faulty toilet ).

- The pilots are very well trained and will fly you safely; it's their job to do so, and that's why they undergo checks in the simulator every six months and various examinations (called "annual line checks"), so they keep current and in date with all emergency procedures.

- The Cabin Crew are also checked every year, on line (in the air), and on the ground, where their knowledge of all safety procedures is tested and made sure is accurate and up to date.

- Try and focus on anything else but the fact that you're in an aircraft; in my experience, most of the passengers that had fear of flying were not scared of the flying issue itself or of heights, but they were scared of not being in control.

- MJV from the UK is usually a (scheduled) 2hrs and 30mins flight; usually it is less than that so think about the fact that you're flight is not that long after all (sometimes it could land in MJV up to 30 mins ahead of the scheduled time)

- Again, interact with the crew; most of them won't mind. Have a giggle with them, they love that.

- Even if it's an early flight, have a Bloody Mary or two. But only if you know you can control your alcohol and are VERY sure it won't get you that drunk that you could be off loaded (we are very, VERY serious when it comes to intoxicated passengers). Just make sure you don't have a pint of lager or two. It makes you need to go to the toilet, in the terminal as well as on board. If you can't use the toilet on board, you'll get aggravated and that's not good for your fear of flying.

- I noticed the flight is a bit too early for when you can (wish to) have an alcoholic drink so I suggest you go and see your GP, I think they could prescribe you mild anti anxiety/depressant pills.

- If this is of any help to you, I am terrified of driving. Absolutely terrified! I don't mind being 38000 ft above the sea level, but driving about with so many idiots on the road... gives me nightmares. I only drive when I'm forced to (i.e. there are no friends available to drive me around, other half is at work, no taxis available/ buses time tables don't work for me). Hell, I'm even scared when I'm just a passenger in a car!
But i learned how to overcome this; you have to take control of the situation. I use music to get me through a painful drive (or what my mind perceives as painful) to Tesco's and back, and it helps. So find something that relaxes you (reading a book, playing a game on your phone/PSP/iPad, whatever else they invented these days). I do hope you're not thinking a "relaxing bath" tho, it would be a bit tricky to have one during your flight

More importantly, think about the fun you're going to have "at the other end". The flight might be just over 2 hrs, but your holiday is 7 days! Enjoy it!

[PAXboy]

Welcome fearfull flyer, you have posted in EXACTLY the right place for your question and there are lots of folks to help you, as you can see. It's grand that Abusing_the_sky has shown us both sides of the situation by owning up to anxiety around driving in a car.

I too have a phobia that can be triggered by something I see (or hear) near me and even if it happens on a TV programme, it can upset me. The fact that I know it's a phobia is irrelevant. That's the clever things about phobias - they are so danged REAL!

[gusting_45]

As a pilot (not Jet2) so have no axe to grind, you will most likely fly in a Boeing 737 or Boeing 757. With specific reference to your question about cargo doors. The 737 has plug doors which means that the more pressure exerted on them, the tighter they seal closed and secure, i.e. they close from the inside. Although the 757 has outward opening doors there is little to be concerned about, the history of cargo door failure related principally to the Douglas Corporation DC-10. This aircraft while being extremely robust had a weakness in the mechanism that indicated whether the doors were correcly closed or not. The Boeing 747 had a similar problem, both were fairly swiflty resolved many years ago.

Regarding aircraft age, again I would not be concerend at all. In my career I have flown aircraft that were built in the mid-fifties and therefore much older than the Jet2 fleet. Aircraft are extremely robust and tough machines with a great deal of redundancy built into their design. U.k. airlines are also subject to very strict oversight from the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) regarding pilot, cabin crew and engineering training and standards.

No activity is risk free, and I am sure you gain little solace from the statistics which show how safe flying is as a method of travel. Remember that the crew who are flying you also have families and personal lives which they want to enjoy, they have no interest in jeopardising your life as to do so would jeopardise theirs. The first people to arrive at an accident scene will be the pilots, I can assure you that they do not relish that prospect.

lurkinginSTO made some very valid observations about triggers for causing you to feel stressed about the prospect of flying. I have had some connection with a company which does a lot of work with nervous flyers. Much of their effort is focussed on identifying the causes of people's flying anxieties and in many cases the reason for the fear has nothing to do with the act of flying itself. In fact many of their clients come to really enjoy the prospect of flying.

I hope that you can overcome your anxieties. I would caution against the alcohol route to deal with your problem. Better to identify and remove the problem rather than try to hide behind an alcohol-induced fog. Alcohol and aviation is rarely that good a mix.

All the best.

p.s. If you want the details of the Fear of Flying people that I know then I will happily pass it on. I have no vested interest. Also, ask your cabin crew if you can meet your flight crew on the day, if they have time I am sure they will oblige, I ceraintly do if I can. Very often it helps people to have made that connection and realise that there are normal human beings in charge of their flight who are quite relaxed and unstressed.

[ceeb]

You have mentioned the phobia before PAXboy, and I am quite intrigued, would you mind sharing it.?

[fearfull flyer]

Re: looking for answers

I cant thank you all enough for answering my post, you have all helped and given lots of usefull tips.

I have flown before but have always been a very fearfull flyer, usually i spend the whole flight staring at the cabin crew looking for signs of worry or fear on their faces, especialy when the engine suddenly seems to sound diffrent etc. The last flight i was on was about 6yrs ago, our last family holiday to spain, we hadnt been in the air very long when the seat belt sign came on and the cabin crew came around checking everyone was fastened in, I almost couldnt breath with panic i thought this is it somethings wrong we are going to crash and die, i was a nervous wreck for the rest of the flight and sat with my head down and my hands over my ears for the rest of the flight, and the whole of the holiday dreading the return flight. Which was even worse because coming back i was sat near the wing and became fixated on them i imagined i could see all sorts wrong with it, and every time the plane tilted a little and the wing went up or down a panic surge went through me, even though we got there and back absolutly fine and nothing went wrong, in my mind it became a huge fear and i swore that was it i would never ever fly again.

But my daughter is desperate for a holiday abroad in the sun with a swimming pool, and to go on an aeroplane like all her friends at school do each year, iv been persuaded into it by my hubby, but since the second iv booked it iv had sleepless nights and its all i can think about and its 4 months away..lol

Im soooo pleased i came across this site, it helps to have some of my questions answered by people who actually know what they are talking about, and i cant thank you all enough you have all really helped.

If there is anyone who works for jet2 here can i ask, when i booked the flight we didnt pay for allocated seating (my hubby said it was a rip off as hes seen on holiday programmes where people have paid and then been told there is no allocated seating ) but i realy want allocated seating as i dont want to be sat anywhere near the wing, is it possible anyway to somehow go back and do that..? i could kick myself for listening to him instead of just going ahead and booking the allocated seating, plus i really dont want us all sat away from each other.

Thanks again for all your replies very much appreciated

[tezzer]

Good Question !

I fly probably 60 flights a year, and last night was a london to Bermuda leg.

The lady sat in front of me was indeed very nervous, but after reassurance from the cabin crew, she really enjoyed the experience !

As for Jet 2 ? All I can say it that I entrunst two of the most precious things in my lifto them a couple of times a year,my beutiful daughters. Now, ask yourself, would I do that if I had ANY concerns about their aeroplanes ?

Sit back, take a deep breath, it WILL be 100% fine, and come back and let us know how you get on !

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

pre-booking seats

If there is anyone who works for jet2 here can i ask, when i booked the flight we didnt pay for allocated seating (my hubby said it was a rip off as hes seen on holiday programmes where people have paid and then been told there is no allocated seating ) but i realy want allocated seating as i dont want to be sat anywhere near the wing, is it possible anyway to somehow go back and do that..? i could kick myself for listening to him instead of just going ahead and booking the allocated seating, plus i really dont want us all sat away from each other.

I think that you'll have been allocated seats for your booking when you made it, if not try this

https://reservations.jet2.com/JET2.R...ageSearch.aspx

Using the "manage my booking" you can make alterations to your booking via this area of the website. What you can do is to check-in on-line, if you don't want to pay for particular seating then the system will allocate you seats, you can see where they are. You either accept these, or if you don't like them because you're separated or in an area of the plane you don't like, then choose your own and pay, or leave it a week or two, and see what the system comes up with next time you try.

Hope this helps.

[etrang]

I would suggest not drinking before, or during the flight. Instead, try learning some meditation or breathing exercises you can do which will help to calm you and keep you more in control of your feelings.

[SloppyJoe]

You mention looking at the crews faces when you hear noises to see if they are looking concerned. If that is one thing that worries you when flying maybe knowing what these things are may help a bit. Information can really put your mind at ease and the more you know about what is going on the more relaxed you will feel.

I will give you a step by step basic idea of the main things.

When you first get on the plane have a look by the wings and see if they are putting fuel in the plane, they may have finished already but if they are the seatbelt sign will be off. Once it goes on it means fueling is finished. The engine cowls may also be open, this is a routine thing as they need oil etc just like cars, it does not mean there are problems. Oil is usually put in after every flight as the engines are designed to use a bit whilst running.

Once seated the crew will be helping others to their seats and making sure no items are in the way. Once everyone is on board they will close the doors and start the safety presentation, may start it before they close the doors or may do it after.

Once the doors are closed the pilots will be asking if they can start the engines and push back from the parking spot. Sometimes this may take a while as other aircraft may be in the way.

Once you start to move you will notice the air conditioning system loses most of its power, this is because the pilots are about to start the engines which use air pressure from the small engine at the back to start the main engines. You will hear them both start to make lots of noise. Once both engines are started you will notice the air conditioning come back to full force as it is now using the main engines to provide its power.

Also at about this time the crew will arm the doors, this just means that if they are opened the slides will inflate so you can understand why they would be disarmed when the plane is parked as you would not want one to inflate at the stand. They will say something along the lines of "arm doors and cross check" before doing this. One crew member will arm the door by removing a pin with a red flag (you can see it on every main door when you first get on the plane) and moving a lever and then another crew will check it has been done correctly.

Before you move after the engines are started and you have finished the push back from the parking spot you will see the flaps at the back of the wing extend, this makes quite a noise and you can usually hear it even if you are not able to see it. During this time the pilots are checking everything is OK and setting the aircraft up for take off. The ground engineer who would have been talking to the pilots through a microphone point by the nose wheel will disconnect and you may see him walk away from the aircraft if you are on the correct side. You may notice them also do a flight control check so the surfaces on the wing will move one way then the other, this is done before every flight but sometimes a bit later when you are taxiing to the runway.

Now you are ready to taxi to the runway the pilots will ask air traffic control if they can start to move, this again may take a few minutes depending how busy it is around you.

Once you start to move you may feel a slight braking almost straight away, this is the pilots checking the brakes, you may not feel it as is usually very lightly done.

The cabin crew will probably be dashing around making the final checks of the cabin and the passengers. You may also hear some bings or bongs and see lights on the roof by the galleys lighting up. This is just the crew communicating with one another so as to make sure the whole aircraft is ready to take off.

Once the plane is almost at the runway there will be a signal to the crew to sit down, may be a PA from the flight deck or may be some other signal. They all sit down and inform the pilots that the cabin is fully prepared for take off, if they still need more time the pilots will wait until they get the signal from the cabin crew.

If you can see out the window and notice yourself passing a red sign with white numbers next to the taxiway it means you are entering the runway and about to take off.

Once cleared to take off the pilots will do their final checks and line up in the centre of the runway, even if you are not at the very beginning of the runway there are calculations done with large safety margins to make sure that even if there is a problem there is enough space to take off or stop at any time during the departure safely. If its night you will notice the white strobes on the wingtips get turned on at this point.

Once you start to go you will notice the engines initially get set to a low power setting, this is just to help them accelerate together smoothly. Almost as soon as this is done they will set take off power and you will start to accelerate more quickly and the engines will both go to full power.

Once you are moving one pilot will be controlling the plane and the other will be looking at all the indications to make sure everything is normal.

Once you get in the air and are on your way you will probably hear some mechanical noise, maybe also with clicks or clunks, this is just the wheels being raised.

You will continue at full power in a steep climb until you are at 1,500 feet above the ground. At this point which is about 1 minute after you leave the ground you may notice the nose pitch down slightly and one thing you will notice for sure is the engines reduce quite a bit in power. As the plane starts to speed up after this due to the lowering of the nose not the reducing in power of course you will either see or hear the flaps that were required for take off get retracted. This is so the plane can fly quicker with less drag. Depending on the flap setting used this will either happen in one go or they may retract the flaps a bit then wait for the aircraft to speed up a bit more and then retract them a bit more until the wing no longer has them sticking out and down from the back of it.

Once the pilots are happy that there are not likely to be any more bumps they will indicate to the cabin crew it is ok for them to walk about and start work. Usually done by cycling the seatbelt sign so you may see it flash and make a bing or two.

Due to air traffic you may not be able to go straight away to your cruising level so may have to stop climbing once, twice or a few times. If this happens the engine power will drop off even more and the nose will pitch down, once cleared to climb again the engines will roar back to climb power and the nose will pitch up once more. It also depends on how the pilots decide to do the climb, if they know they will get held lower they may increase the speed by lowering the nose but engine power may remain high, doing this takes longer to climb so they are hoping that before they reach the height they have been told to stop at they will be cleared even higher. If they have done this and get cleared higher again they may slow down by raising the nose so you would feel a bit of G force as they do this especially if you are also turning at the same time. Engine power may or may not change when they are doing it that way but you would notice the pitch changes and g force.

So you have finally made it to the cruising altitude. Not too noisy and the plane will be pitched nose up at about 2.5 degrees. This is how it flies when it is not climbing or descending. If you walk to the loo or look down the isle you will notice this if you look for it.

As a plane gets lighter due to fuel being burned it becomes more efficient to fly higher so at some point you may notice the engine power increase as you start to climb to the better altitude.

Due to air traffic you may have to descend though if there are other planes at the same level close by, don't worry they never get that close it depends where you are and what sort of radar the air traffic controller has. In some parts of the world you need 15 minutes between aircraft on the same route at the same level and that is about 100 miles. So you never get that close if at the same level. You may see some aircraft pass close by, over or under but they will be either 1000 feet or more above or below you, if one goes right under or over you it can look very close but will be at least 1000 feet above or below you.

If you have to descend because of other airplanes you will hear the engine power drop off and will feel the plane start to descend. You may also feel the pressure change in the cabin. This is all totally normal. I have had to descend from 34,000 feet down to 28,000 feet before due to aircraft and then we went back to 34,000 feet about 30 minutes later. Probably will just be 2,000 feet either up or down but larger changes do happen.

Seat belt signs come on any time the pilots think it may be a bit bumpy, it is not a problem and at the time of year where you are flying there will be no really bad weather. If they come on it will most likely be because they have heard other planes complain of bumps or there is some clouds with rain in them that they will fly through.

Once you get close to the point where you will start to descend for landing the crew will be starting to prepare the cabin, the captain will probably make a PA to have a chat. This will be about 200 miles from your destination.

Once the descent starts the engines will come back to near idle power and the plane will pitch down the pressurisation system may make a sudden change that you will feel in your ears. As with the initial climb you may have to stop at a certain height on the way down, once twice or a few times. Engine power will increase and the nose will pitch up. If you have to come down a bit faster the pilot may use the speed brakes, if you notice the plane start to shudder and you ca hear a wind like roar look at the wing and you will see some panels on the upper surface of the wing raised to help the plane slow down and descend to comply with air traffic control instructions. Happens on about 50% of flights so will probably happen either going or coming back.

At about 20,000 feet the seatbelts will go on, may have been on earlier depending on the conditions during the descent.

Once the pilots want to start slowing down for landing you will hear the same thing as when the flaps were raised after takeoff, this is them extending the flaps and they normally get extended more for landing than when you took off. It is often bumpy as you get closer to the ground due to changes in wind speed and direction and the pilots will be relaxed even if you think it is bumpy as have done it thousands of times before.

Once the plane is starting the final approach the engines will increase in power to slow the descent rate and maintain the speed the pilots want. During the final few thousand feet the engines will be going up and down a lot in noise and power, this is totally normal, you may also feel the acceleration and deceleration as this happens, the closer you get to the ground the more it may change. If it is really calm you may not notice it as much but if it is gusty you will definitely be aware of this. It is how planes fly in gusty winds and is totally normal :-)

At about 2500 feet you will hear that mechanical noise again as the landing gear is lowered, this time accompanied by the sound of rushing air from outside, its just the wheels in the airflow, you would not notice it on take off as you are not flying as fast at that point and the engine sound will drown it out. Once the wheels are down the pilots will continue to slow the aircraft and the flaps will be extended some more.

About 20 feet above the runway the engines will go to idle power and the nose will pitch up slightly. Once the main wheels touch down you will notice those speed brakes on the wing lift up again to help slow you down. The engines will soon go back to what sounds like full power (it is not), this is them pushing air forwards to help slow the plane, it sounds quite dramatic but does not mean you are running out of runway. With the airline you fly on they have a short time on the ground before they go back so want to keep the brakes cool as there is a max temperature for take off and it takes them a while to cool down. So they will probably be using lots of engine breaking and not as much wheel braking.

Once slow the engines will go back to sounding normal, the plane will turn off the runway and you will see the speed brakes retract once the plane is off the runway followed shortly by the flaps.

Once parked doors will go back to disarmed and engines will be shut down.

Hope this helps as I always find it nicer if you know what to expect and can explain why something is happening to yourself rather than relying on the body language of others.

[deltahotel]

Nice one, SJ. Knowledge (helps to) dispels fear. Mrs DH used to be worried when the engines went quietish at top of descent until she realised it was for the long engines idling descent.

FF. Be bold for yr daughter and enjoy the flight - easy to say for those of us who fly for a living. Wings flexing is good - imagine a big tree that was rigid and didn't sway in the wind. Keep asking questions, keep reading the answers, check out previous threads on this subject (there's plenty!). I wouldn't do this job if I really thought I might not get home at night!

DH

ps in a few months' time let us know how it all went and how much little FF enjoyed the hols.

[Betty girl]

Please do tell the cabin crew you are scared because we understand and people tell us all the time.

They will be able to look after you better if you let them know.

[PAXboy]

If I may make a suggestion, TS, this thread should join the other relevant thread in the FAQ? In particular The GREAT and detailed post from SloppyJoe.

ceeb. How smart of you to remember that I have mentioned this before. I don't say what it is because I only mention it to illustrate not to divert the topic.

[lurkinginSTO]

May I just thank SloppyJoe so much for this detailed explanation, absolutely wonderful!