Safety on low cost flights.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19
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From: Germany
Safety on low cost flights.
Hello,
am just wondering if some people here feel safer when sitting in the seat of a plane of a "regular" airliner than they do when sitting in a so called low cost flight.
I dont avoid to use low coast flights, but sometimes wonder if it really can be that low turn around times and high work loads under time pressure can really have no effect on safety issues.
Well is just a feeling, not base on facts, but would be great to hear if some people feel the same and why or if not and why not.
This feeling is not based on objective evaluation of facts - well on a Ryanair flight i once experienced a flight attendant who had no clue about the flight destination in her announcement, which did not made a really good impression on me - but somehow I still dont have any safety doubts on "regular" airlines.
So just out of interest: Does anybody feel the same?
Cheers and happy landings!
am just wondering if some people here feel safer when sitting in the seat of a plane of a "regular" airliner than they do when sitting in a so called low cost flight.
I dont avoid to use low coast flights, but sometimes wonder if it really can be that low turn around times and high work loads under time pressure can really have no effect on safety issues.
Well is just a feeling, not base on facts, but would be great to hear if some people feel the same and why or if not and why not.
This feeling is not based on objective evaluation of facts - well on a Ryanair flight i once experienced a flight attendant who had no clue about the flight destination in her announcement, which did not made a really good impression on me - but somehow I still dont have any safety doubts on "regular" airlines.
So just out of interest: Does anybody feel the same?
Cheers and happy landings!
A Runyonesque Character
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,209
Likes: 2
From: The South of France ... Not
Remind me - when was the last Ryanair accident?
Easyjet?
Air Berlin?
Wizzair?
Norwegian?
Southwest?
Jetblue?
Air France?
Briefly - air transport in general is subject to incredibly rigorous regulatory oversight and the regulators will come down like a ton of bricks on anybody bending the rules.
Plus for airlines with a very strong cost-control culture, any accident or major incident which even hinted at cutting corners could spell commercial disaster. Anybody remember ValueJet? - in its day the world's most profitable airline - driven out of business by a crash and other safety issues (I know, they survived, sort of).
Easyjet?
Air Berlin?
Wizzair?
Norwegian?
Southwest?
Jetblue?
Air France?
Briefly - air transport in general is subject to incredibly rigorous regulatory oversight and the regulators will come down like a ton of bricks on anybody bending the rules.
Plus for airlines with a very strong cost-control culture, any accident or major incident which even hinted at cutting corners could spell commercial disaster. Anybody remember ValueJet? - in its day the world's most profitable airline - driven out of business by a crash and other safety issues (I know, they survived, sort of).
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,117
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From: On the western edge of The Moor
a Ryanair flight I once experienced a flight attendant who had no clue about the flight destination in her announcement
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,267
Likes: 92
From: south of Cirencester, north of Lyneham
People seem to forget that the most dangerous part about flying is the motorway to and from the airport. Especially in Italy, Turkey and India...there I'm always bloody scared by the taxi drivers!
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 3,423
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From: world
Ciampino, October 2008, hull loss.
Although I will not fly Ryanair my reason is not at all safety related.
There are a number of countries where I would avoid flying on their LCCs as I would on their legacy carrier(s) too.
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 816
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From: UK
I would say that the Ciampino event mentioned actually reflects very positively on Ryanair and the crew concerned. I have a high degree of confidence in RYR safety: the aircraft are new, very well maintained, extremely reliable and the initial and recurrent training of the crews is first rate.
Cabin crew forgetting the name of the destination is insignificant. They might visit 30 different airports in a month and so it's quite likely that they might have to pause for thought mid-announcement. In fact some of the juniors I've met take very little interest in their destinations at all. They turn up to the crewroom at the appointed time, do as they're told and work the cabin exactly the same as any other day. The actual destination will not be at the forefront of their minds because to be honest, it almost irrelevent to them.
As long as the flight deck crew know where they're going! That's said I can't pronounce the names of half the Polish destinations, so my PAs are probably the same!
Cabin crew forgetting the name of the destination is insignificant. They might visit 30 different airports in a month and so it's quite likely that they might have to pause for thought mid-announcement. In fact some of the juniors I've met take very little interest in their destinations at all. They turn up to the crewroom at the appointed time, do as they're told and work the cabin exactly the same as any other day. The actual destination will not be at the forefront of their minds because to be honest, it almost irrelevent to them.
As long as the flight deck crew know where they're going! That's said I can't pronounce the names of half the Polish destinations, so my PAs are probably the same!
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 475
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From: UK
People seem to forget that the most dangerous part about flying is the motorway to and from the airport.
With 34,3 million registered cars in the uk compared with 1010, yes one thousand and ten commercial jets I suspect the true figures look rather different.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,117
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From: On the western edge of The Moor
This current thread gives some interesting figure!
http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...17-2010-a.html
http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...17-2010-a.html
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 475
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From: UK
whats interesting in that article? shock horror and clever use of statistics.
Someone once worked out (but I can't remember who) that if air travel was compared with car travel on the basis of number of journeys undertaken,
flying was seven times more dangerous.
So I say again with 34,3 million cars registered in the uk alone and 1,2 million deaths worldwide, the car is looking a pretty safe bet. USA has 250,000,000 + registered cars.
Isn't it strange that statistics describing safety levels between cars and planes rarely use the same yardstick.
Someone once worked out (but I can't remember who) that if air travel was compared with car travel on the basis of number of journeys undertaken,
flying was seven times more dangerous.
So I say again with 34,3 million cars registered in the uk alone and 1,2 million deaths worldwide, the car is looking a pretty safe bet. USA has 250,000,000 + registered cars.
Isn't it strange that statistics describing safety levels between cars and planes rarely use the same yardstick.
Joined: Aug 2002
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 1,033
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From: South of France
I wonder if I'm in some Ryanair parallel universe...?
I have been flying RYR from Stansted nearly every week since August last year. The aircraft are new and appear in good condition. The flight crew are pleasant and inform us as to status and progress in a timely fashion. I honestly can't remember any occasion where anything has gone wrong that can be blamed on the airline. The sales pitches can be irritating at first but one soon tunes out if necessary. The cabin crew are pleasant and efficient. The safety briefings are given quickly in the necessary detail, not patronisingly as with some carriers. The flights are invariably on-time and if you follow the rules, everything goes smoothly.
They're are obviously people on here with horror stories but in 20 or so return flights to Germany averaging £60 all in, I really can't find anything to complain about nor do I feel at any time "unsafe".
I have been flying RYR from Stansted nearly every week since August last year. The aircraft are new and appear in good condition. The flight crew are pleasant and inform us as to status and progress in a timely fashion. I honestly can't remember any occasion where anything has gone wrong that can be blamed on the airline. The sales pitches can be irritating at first but one soon tunes out if necessary. The cabin crew are pleasant and efficient. The safety briefings are given quickly in the necessary detail, not patronisingly as with some carriers. The flights are invariably on-time and if you follow the rules, everything goes smoothly.
They're are obviously people on here with horror stories but in 20 or so return flights to Germany averaging £60 all in, I really can't find anything to complain about nor do I feel at any time "unsafe".
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 564
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From: Over Mache Grande?
No need to "say again"...
So I say again with 34,3 million cars registered in the uk alone and 1,2 million deaths worldwide, the car is looking a pretty safe bet. USA has 250,000,000 + registered cars.
There are three main statistics which may be used to compare the safety of various forms of travel:
Deaths per billion journey:
Bus: 4.3
Rail: 20
Van: 20
Car: 40
Foot: 40
Water: 90
Air: 117
Bicycle: 170
Motorcycle: 1640
Deaths per billion hours:
Bus: 11.1
Rail: 30
Air: 30.8
Water: 50
Van: 60
Car: 130
Foot: 220
Bicycle: 550
Motorcycle: 4840
Deaths per billion kilometres:
Air: 0.05
Bus: 0.4
Rail: 0.6
Van: 1.2
Water: 2.6
Car: 3.1
Bicycle: 44.6
Foot: 54.2
Motorcycle: 108.9
Lies, damned lies, and statistics. But Deaths per passenger (or kilometre) mile, air travel is safer.
Your quote talks about vehicles that hold, on average, 5 people max as opposed to between 140 and 550 people.
I'll tell you know, even after a "sporty" landing after a 13 hour duty, the 7 miles driving back home are definitely more dangerous.
DW.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
From: UK
There obviously is a need to say it again.
As I have just researched car statistics I know your 3 deaths per billion kilometres is a UK value. It is also not appropriate to compare distance travelled. Cruise is the safest part of the journey and covers the most distance.
Hours is also not really appropriate as most of the time is at cruise.
So that leaves one very telling statistic.
I am 2.925 times more likely to die flying than driving to and from the airport.
The only statistic that interests me is the one relating to my personal actions.
Therefore if I take a billion flights I am going to die 117 times. However if I take the car I will only die 40 times. That is quite clear to me which one is safer. Hours and kilometers are uninteresting.
Deaths per billion journey's:
Car: 40
Air: 117
As I have just researched car statistics I know your 3 deaths per billion kilometres is a UK value. It is also not appropriate to compare distance travelled. Cruise is the safest part of the journey and covers the most distance.
Hours is also not really appropriate as most of the time is at cruise.
So that leaves one very telling statistic.
I am 2.925 times more likely to die flying than driving to and from the airport.
The only statistic that interests me is the one relating to my personal actions.
Therefore if I take a billion flights I am going to die 117 times. However if I take the car I will only die 40 times. That is quite clear to me which one is safer. Hours and kilometers are uninteresting.
Deaths per billion journey's:
Car: 40
Air: 117
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 46
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From: Europe
Another way of looking at it is that worldwide just over 800 people died in aviation accidents in 2010. How many people died in the UK alone last year on the road? (never mind worldwide)
The thing about statistics is, you can always twist them to your own personal
advantage.
The thing about statistics is, you can always twist them to your own personal
advantage.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 326
Likes: 4
From: Omnipresent
Safety Concerns,
The fact is you miss the point entirely, as jb5000 pointed out, you don't jump in your aircraft every day and fly down to the local supermarket to pick up some bread and milk.
As a pilot I am significantly more concerned about being killed in a road accident (most likely due to circumstances beyond my control) than any sort of emergency pertaining to aircraft.
I hope I'm not merely feeding a troll here...
The fact is you miss the point entirely, as jb5000 pointed out, you don't jump in your aircraft every day and fly down to the local supermarket to pick up some bread and milk.
As a pilot I am significantly more concerned about being killed in a road accident (most likely due to circumstances beyond my control) than any sort of emergency pertaining to aircraft.
I hope I'm not merely feeding a troll here...
