Passengers in the Cockpit/Doors locked.
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Well - You may be right. I'm certainly not knowledgeable enough about security matters accurately to make that call. My gut feeling, my preference, is for the locked door/no visitors policy, but I can't be absolutely certain that this is the best way. It would take somebody with established security credentials and experience to make the case for or against effectively - This probably (but not definitely) removes most if not all PPRuNe users from the debate.
Cool Mod
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dwshimoda
Just to add to Tightslot's well put reasoning, there was some very hard thinking done to establish the rule that visitors would no longer be allowed on the flight deck. I know of several requests being made on behalf of a Captain's wife or girlfriend, son or daughter or colleague from another airline - make your own list, as you have partly done.
The rule is based upon the blanket type. There are just a few exceptions, as there MUST be. CAA Inspectors, line check Captains, Chief Pilot and a few more but each airline has its own rules and applies them rigidly. There have been 'favours' but it always gets back to the company and in a couple of cases I know about the Captain was dismissed. He cannot afford to take that chance.
In oh so many ways it is a pity but a simple better safe than sorry principle works and as long as there are threats it will stay.
Just to add to Tightslot's well put reasoning, there was some very hard thinking done to establish the rule that visitors would no longer be allowed on the flight deck. I know of several requests being made on behalf of a Captain's wife or girlfriend, son or daughter or colleague from another airline - make your own list, as you have partly done.
The rule is based upon the blanket type. There are just a few exceptions, as there MUST be. CAA Inspectors, line check Captains, Chief Pilot and a few more but each airline has its own rules and applies them rigidly. There have been 'favours' but it always gets back to the company and in a couple of cases I know about the Captain was dismissed. He cannot afford to take that chance.
In oh so many ways it is a pity but a simple better safe than sorry principle works and as long as there are threats it will stay.
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Pop
I understand the rules, I just don't agree with them.
I don't want to start another discussion about the rights / wrongs of it - there have been enough threads already so wont debate the hard thinking(!).
My main response was to point out that someone sat in the jumpseat keeping their mouth shut is no distraction at all. We regularly fly with Engineers on board - the last phase of flight is so busy that you forget they are there, hence they are no distraction.
DW.
I don't want to start another discussion about the rights / wrongs of it - there have been enough threads already so wont debate the hard thinking(!).
My main response was to point out that someone sat in the jumpseat keeping their mouth shut is no distraction at all. We regularly fly with Engineers on board - the last phase of flight is so busy that you forget they are there, hence they are no distraction.
DW.
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And, the same FODCOM carries this section:
1.3 For larger aircraft, the National Aviation Security Programme controls access to the flight deck. This FODCOM only applies where that Programme does not prohibit the carriage of passengers on the flight deck.
And there are some enlightened EU governments and operators (I think the majority) who allow common sense and the judgement of the crew to to prevail and control access. The idiots are the ones who create blanket rules without fully thinking through the repercussions of their legislation.
Please, don't misinterpret my comment above and believe that I'm against security. Far from it. But what I won't put up with the clap-trap and ridiculous rules designed by the numpties in DfT and enforced locally by the brainless morons at airports. Yet again we have seen how pointless our internal systems are as it takes a tip-off and two searches before we unload a "viable device" from one aircraft, put it on another and eventually load it on an helicopter. This is a clear case of the lunatics running the asylum. Whatever happens next, short of changing foreign policy, won't make anything safer anywhere.
My recommendation, get some earplugs - we'll need them.
PM
1.3 For larger aircraft, the National Aviation Security Programme controls access to the flight deck. This FODCOM only applies where that Programme does not prohibit the carriage of passengers on the flight deck.
And there are some enlightened EU governments and operators (I think the majority) who allow common sense and the judgement of the crew to to prevail and control access. The idiots are the ones who create blanket rules without fully thinking through the repercussions of their legislation.
Please, don't misinterpret my comment above and believe that I'm against security. Far from it. But what I won't put up with the clap-trap and ridiculous rules designed by the numpties in DfT and enforced locally by the brainless morons at airports. Yet again we have seen how pointless our internal systems are as it takes a tip-off and two searches before we unload a "viable device" from one aircraft, put it on another and eventually load it on an helicopter. This is a clear case of the lunatics running the asylum. Whatever happens next, short of changing foreign policy, won't make anything safer anywhere.
My recommendation, get some earplugs - we'll need them.
PM
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I personally have been into a cockpit since 9/11. It was around 2004 in a KLM passenger plane between Amsterdam Schilpol and Singapore Changi somewhere over the Middle East. I was about 14 at the time. During the sleeping period one of the stewardesses came and asked if I would like to visit the cockpit so I said yes. Didn't stay for very long, but did go and have a few pictures of myself in a cockpit with the cockpit crew. I was flying with my parents, but they weren't asked so I went alone.
So, I would probably say that it still happens that passengers are invited to visit the cockpit just it might be a lot rarer since 9/11. Not sure about the regulations involved, but it's an amazing experience and really livened up that trip.
So, I would probably say that it still happens that passengers are invited to visit the cockpit just it might be a lot rarer since 9/11. Not sure about the regulations involved, but it's an amazing experience and really livened up that trip.
