BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III

[Sporran]

JdS,

I was not casting aspertions about you, or your business abilities. I apologise if that is how you appear to have taken them.

My only comment - was that I did not think you would have had to deal with such a bunch of complete militant prats as bassa. That you agreed with!!

I also totally agree with you that 'enough is enough' regarding 'the wait it out' type strategy. Alas, we are not privy to the intelligence these senior managers have access to.

BA are an excellent company to work for - so I for one wish these senior chaps the best in sorting out the bassa low-life's ASAP!!!

PS. Have a very merry Christmas!!!

[Joao da Silva]

Sporran

No aspersions inferred, just being clear about my position.

I do like BA as an airline and wish you all well for the future, it is rare that I have a poor experience in the air and long may it continue.

Merry Christmas to you, as well

[Swissflyer]

London BA flights cancelled.

Watching while once again BA is shutting down its operation at a peak travel time causes me to wonder how much of this is not just the result of weather, de-icing problems and airport congestion, but rather the fact that a large number of commuting crew are unable to get to the airport.

Cabin crew or pilots living in Scotland, Manchester or Chamonix will be snug in their homes and chalets without any possibility of getting to LHR or LGW. The sick notes should be "flying" in by now.

[finncapt]

Swissflyer

I think the problems today are somewhat greater than those of BA.

There is absolutely no point in investing in the infrastructure, to support keeping the country running, when the sort of weather that is being experienced today lasts for a short number of days and happens, maybe, in 20% of years at most.

I live in Finland and we have had snow, about 50cm in Helsinki, for several weeks now and I doubt it will be gone before the end of March or middle of April.

So, yes, we cope but it costs the taxpayer dearly.

The proportion of cabin crew who commute is probably less than 10% and, even if they were all rostered today and couldn't make it, I doubt that the impact on the BA operation would be noticed by SLF.

Having spent my entire career, at the pointy end, in BA I can assure you that most staff make every effort to attend at times like those of today.

Edited to note you live in Geneva.

[Skylion]

With the falling snow ,BA have cancelled their entire Heathrow departure programme today from 1000 to 1700. Other operators appear to be operating as close to normal as possible, albeit with delays. Blanket cancellations in times of uncertainty have been "The BA way" or "Policy" for some time now , rendering them the least good choice of airline out of their home base on such occasions. Does anyone have any idea what prompted today's decision? Anything to do with industrial relations?

[hautemude]

And what a sensible decision BA took, having taken careful note of the Met forecasts, it was plain to see that heavy delays would occur and I see that the latest met actual says airport closed by snow. Even if by some unlikely Herculean effort, the airport had been kept open, the visibility (RVR) has for some time been low enough to require auto land approaches which in their turn lead to longer & longer delays because of increased a/c separation requirements. Hopefully most potential BA pax have the chance to remain in their homes or hotels. To try and link this weather to the machinations of cabin crew is mischievous.

[AV Flyer]

Just a thought .............

BA's questionnaire may be a precursor to BA justifying laying-off CC when the time comes.

It is clear now that positions have become entrenched and therefore way beyond anyone's ability to change striking CC's minds by reasoned and factual argument. These CC are blindly following their leaders who, as we all know, will only settle when power over the control of BA's IFCE operations is returned to them.

It's kind of the opposite of the Union's strike ballot whereby only the militants vote so are always in the majority of votes cast. In this case the questionnaire will only be returned by non-strikers verifying that what it will take to end the dispute is largely met by the terms in BA's current offer and thus representing the majority of questionnaires returned.

This would open the door to BA using the same tactic as the Union but in reverse to claim a resounding and crushing majority of questionnaires returned in favour of the current (or even a slightly modified after reflecting on the feed-back received) offer while, most importantly, not appearing to be encouraging CC to leave the Union.

The axe can then be dropped justifiably on the heads of the militants.

The militant's hissy-fits in jumping up and down stamping on their questionnaires are thus playing perfectly into BA's hands. What they should be doing is returning them with clear, well enunciated and erudite reasons to end the dispute, however, it would sound just a little too grandiose to write "when, as CC, I am given the control powers of the CEO over all of BA's operations!" so they'll choose not to return them instead.

[Redcap49]

Hautemude
Totally agree with you.The cancellation of the BA operation at Heathrow today has absolutely nothing to do with industrial relations as Skylion has intimated.
The snow that has fallen today is unprecedented and there is no way that with the manpower and de-icing rigs available could they have hoped to have succeeded in operating normally.

[PAXboy]

BBC read online @ 14:12

Heathrow and Gatwick airports were forced to close all runways amid severe Met Office warnings for parts of London, the Home Counties and Surrey.

Airports in Germany, France, Denmark and the Netherlands are also suffering cancellations and delays.

I live in the Northern Home County of Hertfordshire and we have not had snow like this in 20 years. I have to take a train later and, guess what, trains are being cancelled. Nothing to do with anything but the snow.

Shall we get back on topic ...

[AV Flyer]

Shall we get back on topic ...

I'm trying to!

[notlangley]

I disagree with Avflyer who says (18 Dec 2010, 12:35) of the Union's strike ballot that

only the militants vote so are always in the majority of votes cast

There were only two occasions this year that the Electoral Reform Service was used for a ballot of Heritage Cabin Crew members of Unite._ When the ERS do a ballot this produces an authenticated number for the HCC union members.

1) In the opening months of this year there was a vote to strike._ The largest block was those who voted to strike - this accounted for 63% of the 11,691 ballot papers that were distributed._ This was a clear and decisive majority of all members of Unite on this Strike ballot.

1.1) After delays because of Court Hearings the British Airways cabin crew went on strike from 18-22 May, 24-28 May, 30 May 30-3 June and 5-9 June 2010 (there had also been six days of IA in March)._ The votes for this industrial action had previously been declared by ERS on 22 Feb 2010._ I have arranged those voting figures in the form of a table._ "Total" = number of ballot papers issued._ "Yes" = vote to strike._ "No" = vote not to strike._ "Spoiled" = spoiled ballot papers._ "Not returned" = ballot papers not returned for reasons unknown (which presumably includes the difficulty on long-haul duties to keep up to date with surface mail).

_____________________Total__Yes____No___Spoiled__Not returned
Number of ballot papers_11691_ 7482 __1789___11______2409
Percentages__________100%_-_64.0%_15.3%__0.1%___20.6%


2) In July 2010 there was a vote about the New Contract offered by BA._ The largest block was those who did not vote - this accounted for more than 54% of the 11,311 ballot papers that were distributed._ The interpretation of the various numbers was consequently a topic of some controversy.

_____________________Total___Yes___No___Spoiled_Not returned
Number of ballot papers_11311__1686__3419___3______6203
Percentages__________ 100%_-15.0%_30.2%_-0.03%__54.8%


My opinion
Those who did not return their ballot papers in this "New Contract" vote have been labelled apathetic._ If it were me (except that I am a PAX) I possibly would have been one of those who did not return the ballot paper._ Certainly the New Contract was an important issue._ But what exactly did the words mean?_ If it were a contract that I was expected to work to, I would have needed the advice of a solicitor (or equivalent) to enable me to understand the meaning and consequences of the clauses of the contract._ And what advice did cabin crew have?_ Well they had BASSA whose chairman had already been criticised by a judge for giving wrong advice._ They also had Unite whose Joint Secretary had lost his reputation as a source of knowledge and judgement by his foolhardy prophesy that he could get Staff Travel back in five minutes.


Please don’t label cabin crew as apathetic._ They are intelligent, conscientious, hard working people who deserve a better quality of advice than they have been receiving.
　　
Reference for 1) is paragraph number 8 of:-__link
Reference for 2) is:-__link

[MPN11]

Please don’t label cabin crew as apathetic._ They are intelligent, conscientious, hard working people who deserve a better quality of advice than they have been receiving.

A very useful post: thank you.
But ... Advice?

Rhetoric and falsehoods?: Yes.
Facts and Advice?: No.

That is the great sadness within all of this.
BA CC have been fed scribble, and told to ignore BA's messages.
Is it any wonder that people either don't know how to vote, or simply declare it "too difficult"?

I earnestly hope that BA CC will be spared this seemingly-everlasting disruption to their lives. BASSA seems to me to be completely 'off the plot', and Unite doesn't seem to have any control of proceedings [let alone anything resembling negotiation]. It is a tragedy ... and so completely pointless, IMO.

[AV Flyer]

notlangley - The CC are being given the advice they are from the very people they have chosen to elect. In choosing to elect them they cannot then say they are innocent, misled and ill-advised by their leaders. It is their job to elect someone else.

I'm sorry, but under these circumstances the label of apathetic is doubly relevant, firstly because they chose not to vote in their confusion and secondly because they don't replace the very leaders they have chosen who they recognise to be the source of that confusion.

[Litebulbs]

AV Flyer

Or they believe and want them.

[AV Flyer]

Litebulbs

In which case this whole affair, including the in-fighting between the Branches and between the Branches & Unite and between the JGS's of Unite itself along with the extremely low percentage poll that elected the new GS of Unite is a very poor indictment of the Trade Union process in general. Particularly as Unite is the largest union in the UK.

With the amount of power the unions have over their evidently misguided members' livelihoods then, just as with the CEOs and boards of public companies, the law must hold the leadership of unions to much higher standards than it currently does if we are to see stronger, more professional and truly representative unions in the future.

[Litebulbs]

AV Flyer

To your first paragraph, I agree.

To the second, I do not. Why is it the top table at fault when TULRcA 1992 insists on secret ballots? BA no doubt know the membership levels through check off, so why not go through a campaign of raising awareness of the forthcoming ballot and incentivise people to vote.

[notlangley]

I'm sorry, but under these circumstances the label of apathetic is doubly relevant, firstly because they chose not to vote in their confusion and secondly because they don't replace the very leaders they have chosen who they recognise to be the source of that confusion.

This is very well reasoned AV Flyer._ I really do appreciate the worth of what you have written._ I have emphasised with bold type the two words that enable me to hold back from acceptance.

If an industrial working group works inside a factory building, then their choice of shop steward is much nearer to being the responsibility of individuals than is possible if you have 10000 Cabin Crew who work in groups of a dozen and these groups are regularly reshuffled.

Governments are much more stable if they are single party governments._ But these eventually collapse with a revolution._ BASSA may collapse and be replaced by a new association that gradually becomes a cult.

Choice exists in democratic States - however because the electorate is large, the candidates are named by the political parties._ The parties are activist groups._ And consequently it is small activist groups that produce the short lists._ Multi-party States can persist for hundreds of years and crucially depend on the toleration of the multi-party system._ Within the cabin crew community there is great intolerance between BASSA, cc89 and PCCC._ In my opinion this intolerance prevents the associations being good at representing the welfare and reasonable aspirations of their members.

[AV Flyer]

Litebulbs & notlangley

Your replies paint a depressing picture for BA CC, the working person and the current state of the Trade Union movement in general.

You are saying that an employee is unable to understand his/her employment contract terms and conditions so pays a union to provide representation while having neither any control over who runs that union nor the skills to determine whether the union's leaders are acting in the employee's interests or using the employee's money to follow their own political agendas.

Essentially this leaves the employee with no choice but to take a position of blind faith in the union.

Then, when I suggest that, given the uncontrolled lies, deception and other abuses we are currently seeing CC being subjected to at the hands of their trusted representatives, the employees need protection by stiffening the laws under which union leaders practice you seem very lukewarm in this regard.

Finally, there is a statement that BASSA may implode and be replaced by an organisation that becomes a cult with the even uglier connotations that situation would incur.

Have I misunderstood?

Perhaps CC would be better off saving their Union subscriptions and taking their chances at the hands of their so-called 'brutal' employer BA instead? Indeed. it appears so far that about 1000 or so who were not Union members have done just that and are very happy at their decision.

This entire state of affairs may well be the reason why a significant number of CC posters to this thread, upon discovering their leaders' self-absorbed behaviour, have described leaving the Union rather than even considering trying to stay and vote the current leadership out.

[LD12986]

Again, I do not believe that the company will sack any cabin crew who go on strike (if there is one). The potential for a backlash from within the rest of the company and outside the company is huge.

However, the union and the reps are exposing themselves if they call a legally dubious strike. If the company considers it has a strong enough case, then it would no doubt make a claim for damages and initiate gross misconduct charges on the union reps.

[BetterByBoat]

If 64% of CC who are members of BASSA voted for strike action (almost 4 times that that voted against strike action) then who is to say that BASSA are leading their members astray? Sounds more like CC getting what they asked for ... even if in the end it wasn't what they wanted. Further, suggesting that poor CC (BASSA members) are being misled seems to suggest that they are too stupid to think for themselves? Hmm .. not a very flattering assessment, especially for employees who are supposed to be able to think on their feet in an emergency. It is also a damning indictment of BA management that they are so appalling bad at getting their message across.

"This entire state of affairs may well be the reason why a significant number of CC posters to this thread, upon discovering its leaders' self-absorbed behaviour," - if, as you state, only 1000 CC have resigned from BASSA (I don't know how accurate this figure is), does it not also suggest that it isn't just the leaders self-absorbed behaviour. It is actually a significant proportion of CC as well. And that BASSA are actually representing their members?

Certainly the results of the next strike ballot will be interesting.

• How many members have BASSA lost?
• How many BASSA CC will vote for further strike action?

But please, unless I'm mistaken (and please feel free to correct me on this). The majority of CC are BASSA \ Amicus \ Unite members. And the vast majority of those members voted for strike action last time.