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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

Old 27th Jul 2010, 19:43
  #801 (permalink)  
 
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Pap n Knee

The point I am trying to make and it would seem badly, is simply that IA is not something that is punishable. The only legislation that I can see for taking IA, is that it is now a fundamental right in all but 3 states in the EU and within the UK there is no precedent either way on the issue. If BA removed the perk for all cabin crew, then my argument would loose some weight, but that is not the case.
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 19:46
  #802 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Slackness of thought

If you are referring to me Cym how do you know the payment either I or my paper round person receive? This is reality not your mistaken supposition.

Incidentally text speak is not the normal mode of communication here. I also suggest you remind yourself of the rules concerning personal attacks.
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 19:47
  #803 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cym View Post
even when ur paid considerably more than the paperboy working for the newsagents down the road - get real!!!!!!
The level of pay should not come into it.
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 19:53
  #804 (permalink)  
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Litebulbs, I can see your point that only strikers lost the perk (ST) which does, from some points of view, appear as victimisation. Perhaps if the perk had been removed without prior warning, more would see that viewpoint.
However, fair warning was given which, I think, most see as changing the situation substantially.

The legalities of it will, no doubt, be debated for a long time, or until a court rules one way or the other.

(Though to be honest the constant repetition of arguments does get a bit tedious)
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 19:58
  #805 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks LB (cym). But I still don't believe removal of ST is a punishment, A travel agent that failed to add value would lose access to this perk industrywide. Here's a chance for you to expand on your comments so far - what's the difference?
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 20:00
  #806 (permalink)  
cym
 
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R Knee

Sorry I was supporting the point you made - I am in total agreement!!
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 20:01
  #807 (permalink)  
 
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Litebulbs

and within the UK there is no precedent either way on the issue
Remember how our legal system operates. Something is entirely legal unless and until there is either statute or case law to specifically say that it isn't.
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 20:03
  #808 (permalink)  
cym
 
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LB

So whats your thoughts about prevailing market rates and the impact using those as a realistic benchmarck could have on unemployment rates?

ps I support realistic union participation as well. BASSA - lost cause
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 20:08
  #809 (permalink)  
 
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OK

Understood cym
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 20:13
  #810 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by R Knee View Post
Thanks LB (cym). But I still don't believe removal of ST is a punishment.......
Then why was it removed from some staff in a bigger group of staff?
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 20:14
  #811 (permalink)  
 
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BA Strike - Your thoughts & questions

Tiramisu, My apologies if my posting came across as if I was referring to all. I was not. My reference was to the band of Bassa hardcases who need no naming. They are the ones who I find difficult to label as genuine BA cc. I have no issue with the majority of postings on that thread and certainly not yours. Sorry.
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 20:19
  #812 (permalink)  
 
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Folks

I state my position, again, for those not aware.

I am a (recently) retired ex-BA employee with 20 years service, and therefore not allowed to comment elsewhere, by decree of the mods.

I am fully aware of the issues in this dispute.

Can I just post an observation that it really doesn't matter what gets posted here, whatever Duggie/Ava/BACCM (all the one and same troll) say is just hot air.

What matters is that BA have wiped the floor with BASSA ( or more that BASSA have performed an in-house frontal lobotomy and handed victory to BA).

The lack of acumen displayed by BASSA is unbelievable, they have signed their own demise at every step.

Duggie can proclaim till the ends of time that black is white and that all will be ok when WW goes. The fact is totally different. They (BASSA) are history.

If (I doubt it) Unite ballot again, BA WILL operate 100% of Longhaul, and the mis-guided souls wil not have a job to come back to.

As I see it, the only out for BASSA is to prolong the dispute until WW leaves for IAG/TopCo and then settle immediately with Keith and claim victory in that they have got rid of WW.

The truth is that in the meantime that the settlement will have got worse and that the MF will have accelerated.

Another point for the 'Legacy Fleet' - they seem to assume that the route transfer/top up will remain as per previously suggested - I would be extremely surprised if this is the case. BA may well take the opportunity to accelerate the savings by giving MF all the (current) 48hr slip routes and make them 24 hours (think HKG, NRT, BKK, SIN, SFO, LAX etc) savings millions per year in HOTAC.
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 20:49
  #813 (permalink)  
cym
 
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LB

People need to make informed decisions and cope with the consequences.

Did WW say if you go on strike ST will be removed? Did BASSA say no probs - ST will be restored in 5 mins? What is the reality of the situation - Unite want to go to the ECoHR.

Questions, yes or no, good or bad; are BASSA doing a good job for their members? What is the impact on Unite membership within BA?
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 21:10
  #814 (permalink)  
 
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cym

I cannot comment about the BASSA part, as I am not a member. As for Unite, at the start, no. They have raised their game somewhat, but nowhere near the level that Mr Walsh has played, but he does have the balance of UK law on his side. But regardless of that, my union has an awful lot to learn on how a CEO of his ability operates.
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 21:34
  #815 (permalink)  
cym
 
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LB

Thanks for your reply, I appreicate your point of view.

However if you factor in the feelings of the staff that did not go down the IA route, the reduction in BASSA membership as per their website since it began, the lack of consultation with their members re offers tabled, the offence caused by BASSA to their engineering fellow union members re the fitness of aircracft to fly. Added to this the lack of pretty obvious public support the the action to date and the unknown potential damage of going down the route of ECoHR to restore staff travel to a limited number of BA staff, and the unknown impact this may have on the current current legal precedence in the UK for non contractual rights and HMCRC view of these benefits. Also would any such finding apply to BA staff or all CC that are UK based?

A good place for a union to be? Again I totally support TU's, they have a critical role to play. This dispute is deffo in lalaland, Time to call it a day

Btw I am ex BA CC and want whats best for the company as a whole. Swim together or drown as a self interest group is my message to Duncan!
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 21:39
  #816 (permalink)  
 
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AT*Q

Once again you prevaricate LB.

To use the same analogy:

I choose annually to tip my paper delivery boy/milkman/dustman etc. (my staff)

If I choose not tip the dustmen (part of my staff) one year because they dropped some rubbish I am not punishing them, merely removing a perk. The tip wasn't contractual!
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 22:12
  #817 (permalink)  
 
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Litebulbs

If it goes BA's way, then it could seriously damage collective action in the UK, even more so than this current dispute has.
Sorry but if you truly believe this then I want some of whatever you're smoking. It won't get anywhere near a Court, or at least not one that's going to set a precedent. BA can settle the problem within months, ie as soon as large numbers of the awkward squad who rely on staff travel have left.

I think you should be more worried about how many individual contracts BA now has saying "we'd like to accept the deal". It it's a lot, and with the prospect of upto 1,300 awkward squad members resigning soon, then there's not a lot to stop BA calling a derecognition ballot is there? Do you think one reason BA sent the same package of documents to every member of staff, even those it knew were in the Union, was to gather precisely this information, ie to ascertain the possibility of winning such a ballot? How do you interpret Walsh and Broughton's comments at the AGM about being "sick and tired" of BASSA?
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 22:29
  #818 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by R Knee View Post
Once again you prevaricate LB.

To use the same analogy:

I choose annually to tip my paper delivery boy/milkman/dustman etc. (my staff)

If I choose not tip the dustmen (part of my staff) one year because they dropped some rubbish I am not punishing them, merely removing a perk. The tip wasn't contractual!
To not agree is not prevarication. Dropping rubbish is not a protected right. What will be tested is whether going on strike is. If it is, taking action to prevent or punish will be unlawful.
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 22:51
  #819 (permalink)  
 
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JayPee28bpr

For the record, I am not smoking anything and to suggest as much is insulting (well it isn't really, but some like to think things like that are)

I am not worried in the slightest about how many contracts BA have. If 50%+1 have signed, then that is democracy. If a de recognition ballot is the outcome, then so be it. If it happens and the cabin crew would prefer not to have recognition, then that is their choice. The best thing to come out of the Thatcher years is secret ballots. Have your mass meetings, but vote on your own.

I can imagine that the top table is sick and tired, just as probably every other employee is too. The line has been drawn and the button will be pushed if nothing comes out of the ACAS meeting.
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Old 28th Jul 2010, 07:14
  #820 (permalink)  
 
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This is a potential mine field and at best (me being a union person), it will be seen as unlawful. If it goes BA's way, then it could seriously damage collective action in the UK, even more so than this current dispute has.
If you are correct Litebulbs that this dispute will have far-reaching negative implications for future Union action, it is even more depressing that this dispute arose over a few hundred CSD's (many of whom were BASSA reps) being told to push a trolley.
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