Reclining Seats - Why?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Reclining Seats - Why?
Why do charter airlines insist on having reclining seats?
I thought the airlines were trying to prevent air rage?
Do they not realise that the inconsiderate neanderthal in front of you who insists in ramming his seat back in to your knees is going to cause air rage?
why? Why? WHy? WHY?
I thought the airlines were trying to prevent air rage?
Do they not realise that the inconsiderate neanderthal in front of you who insists in ramming his seat back in to your knees is going to cause air rage?
why? Why? WHy? WHY?
Guest
Posts: n/a
.. and not just charter airlines either. Any short-haul.
If any European airline is planning to install a few clevis pins in the appropriate places, to make seats non-reclineable, please tell me. It's definitely something I would take into account when choosing who gets my custom. I already *do* take into account seat pitch... and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
If any European airline is planning to install a few clevis pins in the appropriate places, to make seats non-reclineable, please tell me. It's definitely something I would take into account when choosing who gets my custom. I already *do* take into account seat pitch... and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quite right! Of course, reclining seats came to be at a time when even in Economy one enjoyed 34-36 inches (I'm talking scheduled piston props here). It's got tighter and tighter over the years and, indeed, if airlines are going to insist packing them in they should eliminate the recline option.
On the other hand, one could argue that if you want to pay rock bottom prices, you shouldn't expect too much in terms of comfort either. In my opinion we are slowly going back to three (even four) class cabins in a sort of 1st, 2nd, 3rd (and 4th) class system.
1st = FIRST
2nd = BUSINESS
3rd = SUPER ECONOMY
4th = DISCOUNTED ECONOMY (cattle class)
Maybe they should rename them: LUXURY, EXECUTIVE, REGULAR and DISCOUNT?
On the other hand, one could argue that if you want to pay rock bottom prices, you shouldn't expect too much in terms of comfort either. In my opinion we are slowly going back to three (even four) class cabins in a sort of 1st, 2nd, 3rd (and 4th) class system.
1st = FIRST
2nd = BUSINESS
3rd = SUPER ECONOMY
4th = DISCOUNTED ECONOMY (cattle class)
Maybe they should rename them: LUXURY, EXECUTIVE, REGULAR and DISCOUNT?
Guest
Posts: n/a
I think a lotapax would settle for sensibly priced flights from regionals.
Currently the choice is generally a packed flight from an airport located in a knot of traffic at 50p (for the flight) plus £ 50 airport tax, or a roomier one at triple the price from a regional. Why are the latter so expensive? Monopolistic practices did I hear someone whisper?
Maybe one airline will be brave enough to price regional/BRU (as an example) at £ 20 over the cost of their LHR/BRU, and see if it suddenly becomes popular. Easy access to airport, cheaper parking, quicker check-in etc.... These things are worth £ 20, to me at least, but not £ 100 each leg.
I doubt we'd complain if they flew us in older planes with bigger seat pitches, and consequently a more realistic chance of getting the carry-on luggage into the overhead lockers.
Maybe.
We can dream....
Currently the choice is generally a packed flight from an airport located in a knot of traffic at 50p (for the flight) plus £ 50 airport tax, or a roomier one at triple the price from a regional. Why are the latter so expensive? Monopolistic practices did I hear someone whisper?
Maybe one airline will be brave enough to price regional/BRU (as an example) at £ 20 over the cost of their LHR/BRU, and see if it suddenly becomes popular. Easy access to airport, cheaper parking, quicker check-in etc.... These things are worth £ 20, to me at least, but not £ 100 each leg.
I doubt we'd complain if they flew us in older planes with bigger seat pitches, and consequently a more realistic chance of getting the carry-on luggage into the overhead lockers.
Maybe.
We can dream....
Guest
Posts: n/a
And I thought I was the only miserable sucker who always winds up behind the jerk who puts his seat back through the whole flight! The last two times I flew from SFO to LHR, the £@!!! in front reclined the seat immediately after we levelled off--TEN HOURS of having the seat in front of me jammed in my face--no room to even put down the tray! I could understand it a few hours into the flight, after the meal...But even during the meal?! What really got me was the creep was leaning forward a lot of the time, trying to reach his tray. Why does anyone do this? Is it some selfish desire to have a few extra inches at the expense of the guy behind? Next time it happens, I think I might just be provoked to air rage! People just have no sense of respect for anyone else around them. I would LOVE nonreclinable seats!
Guest
Posts: n/a
I agree completely -- reclining seats in Y class or on charters are an absolute pain. Yes, I've had the berk in front who puts the seat back from the very microsecond it's allowed to the moment it's not (and beyond). No, I've never been that berk.
Why we can't be given the choice, I don't know. You want a reclining seat? Then pay for it in a class that's got enough room to allow it. They wouldn't put veal calves in the sort of space left to us after knobfeatures in front has pressed the button. Time to invent some sort of medical condition -- vertical claustrophobia? -- that puts the carriers in mortal fear of a class action lawsuit. That's the only sort of language these people understand...
R
Why we can't be given the choice, I don't know. You want a reclining seat? Then pay for it in a class that's got enough room to allow it. They wouldn't put veal calves in the sort of space left to us after knobfeatures in front has pressed the button. Time to invent some sort of medical condition -- vertical claustrophobia? -- that puts the carriers in mortal fear of a class action lawsuit. That's the only sort of language these people understand...
R
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well I've been, how did you put it, one of those berks. 
And why shouldn't I. Is it my fault the airline wishes to operate with reclining seats. Is it my fault you're the berk behind.
If you want more legroom pay the premiums and move closer to the front, but then you're probably British, and will suffer in silence for the duration of the flight, then complain to all your mates afterwards - very BRITISH.
And why shouldn't I. Is it my fault the airline wishes to operate with reclining seats. Is it my fault you're the berk behind.
If you want more legroom pay the premiums and move closer to the front, but then you're probably British, and will suffer in silence for the duration of the flight, then complain to all your mates afterwards - very BRITISH.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well I suppose SLF could have asked you Mr Berk to move the seat off of his patella to allow him to eat his meal. However this may have been met with a **** off why should I, and possible aggravation and air rage, so he chooses to suffer in silence. Unfortunately there are too many people who have no common courtesy at all and refuse to think about the wishes of others. The only way to stop these narrow minded self-opinionated people is for the airlines to make non-reclining seats in cattle class. Until that time, do as someone suggested on another thread and devise a home made anti-recline device. Or ask for the jumpseat perhaps 
[This message has been edited by leftwingdownabit (edited 25 August 2000).]
[This message has been edited by leftwingdownabit (edited 25 August 2000).]
Guest
Posts: n/a
So I'm right then it's the airlines fault not mine for reclining seats.
Yes you could always ask me to move my seat to the upright position whilst you eat, because like you I also like to have my own seat in that position for meals,, saves on the drycleaning.
Guest
Posts: n/a
It's not just during the meal, Lala. It's for the entire flight. The meal is just the worst part.
I choose not to recline, because in my opinion a flight with someone else's seatback in your face is unbearable, far outweighing the moderate increase in comfort for the recliner -- and why should I inflict something on someone else that I can't stand myself? Doesn't seem fair...
R
(but I do sometimes fart in public, for the joy of it. Just call me inconsistent
)
I choose not to recline, because in my opinion a flight with someone else's seatback in your face is unbearable, far outweighing the moderate increase in comfort for the recliner -- and why should I inflict something on someone else that I can't stand myself? Doesn't seem fair...
R
(but I do sometimes fart in public, for the joy of it. Just call me inconsistent
)Guest
Posts: n/a
Where does fair come into the issue. I pay for a seat - the airline when purchasing their fleet have seats that recline - why - so that I may sit in comfort during my travels 
Now don't get me wrong if all airline seats did not recline I would still travel, but as they do I feel I am entitled to excerise my right to relax.
Guest
Posts: n/a
So, I guess I was right then. It is willful selfishness at the expense of the person behind you. On my last flight, even the flight attendant took pity on me and, seeing as I didn't even have room to put my tray down to eat, was nice enough to ask the neanderthal in front if he would put his seat up so that she could put my food down. He grunted and grudgingly moved up a barely noticeable inch or so. He then ate his meal looking uncomfortable, leaning forward at an awkward angle in order to reach HIS food. Better that, I suppose, than to allow the sucker sitting behind you to be able to eat (or breathe) in anything other than misery and discomfort. On a ten hour flight! We're all animals here, ready to gouge each other's eyes out for an extra inch or two.
Guest
Posts: n/a
How about the HORIZONTALS?
I find it just as annoying when some guy gets seated next to me who can barely get his @ss between the arm-rests. That same guy usually has no concept of keeping his paravanes tucked into his sides when using knife and fork. I end up leaning half-way into the aisle to try to get clearance to eat my own meal without his elbows knocking my food off the fork and into my lap!
How about a guage like the one used to check cabin baggage for size, but designed to ensure that pax who travel in economy can actually fit into an economy seat! If they don't fit, then either make them pay for an upgrade to a seat they do fit, or seat them beside another similarly "girth enhanced" pax so the rest of us don't suffer!
------------------
Through hardship to the bars
I find it just as annoying when some guy gets seated next to me who can barely get his @ss between the arm-rests. That same guy usually has no concept of keeping his paravanes tucked into his sides when using knife and fork. I end up leaning half-way into the aisle to try to get clearance to eat my own meal without his elbows knocking my food off the fork and into my lap!
How about a guage like the one used to check cabin baggage for size, but designed to ensure that pax who travel in economy can actually fit into an economy seat! If they don't fit, then either make them pay for an upgrade to a seat they do fit, or seat them beside another similarly "girth enhanced" pax so the rest of us don't suffer!
------------------
Through hardship to the bars
Guest
Posts: n/a
Lala--
I'm entitled to do a lot of things. I know my rights. But a society built from people who behave as if the only thing that matters is that they can do what the hell they like to the limits of the rules, regardless of how it affects others, is a pain in the backside.
There's more to living in a community than the solipsitic exercise of one's rights. Behaving with consideration towards others might seem antiquated, but it really does end up with everyone having a better time of things (curiously, you can even prove this with maths -- if you're interested, go and look up the Prisoner's Dilemma). On an a/c, where we are locked into a tiny space with hundreds of others for hours without respite, it's even more important to behave with a degree of respect for others.
Let's say that you decide to slap your seat back for a nice relaxing stretch for the duration of the eleven hour flight to LA or wherever. The bloke behind you is drunk, desperate for a fag, claustrophobic, having problems with the tax people, his girlfriend... he's really, really stressed, and being pinned into his seat for the flight is one step too far. Bang. He goes postal, lashes out at all and sundry, has to be restrained, the flight diverts...
Air rage. You are a contributory factor. "But I've paid for this seat, it reclines, I'm quite within my rights" you say. Which you are, but by choosing to exercise those rights you're making things far worse for everyone and endangering the flight. It's not your fault -- the bloke who goes nuts has that responsibility -- but you are part of the problem.
If you *knew* that the above scenario was going to happen before you pressed the button, would you still recline? Or would you choose not to exercise your right?
I'm really interested to hear your reply, and your reasoning.
R
I'm entitled to do a lot of things. I know my rights. But a society built from people who behave as if the only thing that matters is that they can do what the hell they like to the limits of the rules, regardless of how it affects others, is a pain in the backside.
There's more to living in a community than the solipsitic exercise of one's rights. Behaving with consideration towards others might seem antiquated, but it really does end up with everyone having a better time of things (curiously, you can even prove this with maths -- if you're interested, go and look up the Prisoner's Dilemma). On an a/c, where we are locked into a tiny space with hundreds of others for hours without respite, it's even more important to behave with a degree of respect for others.
Let's say that you decide to slap your seat back for a nice relaxing stretch for the duration of the eleven hour flight to LA or wherever. The bloke behind you is drunk, desperate for a fag, claustrophobic, having problems with the tax people, his girlfriend... he's really, really stressed, and being pinned into his seat for the flight is one step too far. Bang. He goes postal, lashes out at all and sundry, has to be restrained, the flight diverts...
Air rage. You are a contributory factor. "But I've paid for this seat, it reclines, I'm quite within my rights" you say. Which you are, but by choosing to exercise those rights you're making things far worse for everyone and endangering the flight. It's not your fault -- the bloke who goes nuts has that responsibility -- but you are part of the problem.
If you *knew* that the above scenario was going to happen before you pressed the button, would you still recline? Or would you choose not to exercise your right?
I'm really interested to hear your reply, and your reasoning.
R
Guest
Posts: n/a
Seems we are getting close to computer rage 
Unless the seat in front is well out of your way seats should NOT recline
as your comfort is at the directly at the expense of someone else (esp cheapo class)
I find the worst thing is being so close next to a stranger.
Unless the seat in front is well out of your way seats should NOT recline
as your comfort is at the directly at the expense of someone else (esp cheapo class)I find the worst thing is being so close next to a stranger.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Simple, given your senario the self-respecting drunk would not have been on the flight in the first place - can't stand drunks & if I see one about to get on my flight ensure he's off-loaded.......danger to himself & all around him.
No-one has told me why airlines have reclining seats if it's so against the interests of the travelling public.
I'm tired attended numerous meeting, made loadsa cash for my company, having to airline home - prospect of more meetings next day - I need some sleep - find I'm not related to Dracula and unable to sleep in the upright position - so use the aids supplied to me by the airline.
Now if that annoys other passengers take it up the airline concerned. I'm a reasonable person - well to a point. I'll even help you eat your meal if you ask me nicely.
No-one has told me why airlines have reclining seats if it's so against the interests of the travelling public.
I'm tired attended numerous meeting, made loadsa cash for my company, having to airline home - prospect of more meetings next day - I need some sleep - find I'm not related to Dracula and unable to sleep in the upright position - so use the aids supplied to me by the airline.
Now if that annoys other passengers take it up the airline concerned. I'm a reasonable person - well to a point. I'll even help you eat your meal if you ask me nicely.
Guest
Posts: n/a
SLF, I can fully comprehend your points and I don't disagree. however, don't take it out on LALPANZI & his Reclining Band; they are not to blame. They are given the option to recline by the airline. The blame lies squarely with the airlines. They have reduced seat pitches to unacceptable levels of comfort and yet continue to provide the recline option. It's time for an enterprizing American lawyer to start a class action. we need a Minimum Comfort law.