Reclining Seats - Why?
Guest
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Asking another pax to put his/her seat forward *is* difficult. People are often hostile - when packed in so tightly next to strangers, people's need for some privacy seems to expand. Therefore, however politely expressed a request might be, normally even the act of looking in someone's direction and talking to them produces an aggressive reaction. Of couse there are honourable exceptions, thankfully many of them.
This is especially the case when the recline-perpetrator is female, (or the recline-perpetrator is a child and you are addressing yourself to its mother). A male stranger is perceived as a threat (if you don't smile) or cheesy (if you do).
Unless the recline-perpetrator has spoken, you don't know what language he or she speaks, if any. Perhaps they just grunt. If you don't have a language in common, it's going to be difficult to get your message across. The effort is likely to increase hostility, and when you summon the help of cabin crew (if they have any better language skills than you) the atmosphere is already heated.
So, let's not make this conditional on pax's linguistic skills, gender, size, and persuasiveness. Just lock the blóody seats upright. There's plenty of built-in recline in this position already.
This is especially the case when the recline-perpetrator is female, (or the recline-perpetrator is a child and you are addressing yourself to its mother). A male stranger is perceived as a threat (if you don't smile) or cheesy (if you do).
Unless the recline-perpetrator has spoken, you don't know what language he or she speaks, if any. Perhaps they just grunt. If you don't have a language in common, it's going to be difficult to get your message across. The effort is likely to increase hostility, and when you summon the help of cabin crew (if they have any better language skills than you) the atmosphere is already heated.
So, let's not make this conditional on pax's linguistic skills, gender, size, and persuasiveness. Just lock the blóody seats upright. There's plenty of built-in recline in this position already.
Guest
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From the discussion it is clear,
that unless you are playing Devil's advocate,
that putting your seat back into the reclined position is
unfair
unkind
and probably some kind of arrogant 'it's my right' demonstation by the small mind in front
next time I fly I will make that scene
AIRLINES TAKE NOTE
airlines stop the small minded
that unless you are playing Devil's advocate,
that putting your seat back into the reclined position is
unfair
unkind
and probably some kind of arrogant 'it's my right' demonstation by the small mind in front
next time I fly I will make that scene
AIRLINES TAKE NOTE
airlines stop the small minded
Guest
Posts: n/a
It's more than a little sad to hear all this talk of "rights".
It was a few years ago that I was at school, but was always taught (and I hope I usually remember) that "rights" go hand-in-hand with "responsibilities", in this case to the comfort of your co-travellers.
If you don't accept the "responsibilities", then you shouldn't insist on the "rights".
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tee-head
It was a few years ago that I was at school, but was always taught (and I hope I usually remember) that "rights" go hand-in-hand with "responsibilities", in this case to the comfort of your co-travellers.
If you don't accept the "responsibilities", then you shouldn't insist on the "rights".
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tee-head
Guest
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Well what about the midgets (and small children) that occupy the emergency exit seats while those of use over 6' have to make do with our feat trapped under the seat in front.
I'm 6'5" and I've only once sat in an emergency exit seat (Ta very much Emirates).
Who takes these seats, even if you phone before hand to book them there always taken!!
Even worse are the check in staff that don't know about the aircraft and put you in the centre aisle of the Emergency exit row that is *right* infront of the toilet block with *less* leg-room ***and*** people think it's alright to walk on you to get to the other side of the a/c, then the toilet leaks everywhere! (Mentioning no names, but I was flying to Islamabad on a non British carrier!!)
I'm not bitter!
If the seats didn't recline a bit then I really wouldn't be able to sit in them!
[This message has been edited by 121decimal5 (edited 08 September 2000).]
I'm 6'5" and I've only once sat in an emergency exit seat (Ta very much Emirates).
Who takes these seats, even if you phone before hand to book them there always taken!!
Even worse are the check in staff that don't know about the aircraft and put you in the centre aisle of the Emergency exit row that is *right* infront of the toilet block with *less* leg-room ***and*** people think it's alright to walk on you to get to the other side of the a/c, then the toilet leaks everywhere! (Mentioning no names, but I was flying to Islamabad on a non British carrier!!)
I'm not bitter!
If the seats didn't recline a bit then I really wouldn't be able to sit in them!
[This message has been edited by 121decimal5 (edited 08 September 2000).]
Guest
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It's a major no-no for kids to be sat in any exit row (includes all rows where there are main doors as well as emergency exits - centre section on widebodies excluded, btw - endangers the lives of those on board and is covered under bothe JAA and FAA rules. If you see something like that, you should IMMEDIATELY complain to cabin crew and demand that they be moved. If they refuse, take their name and report them to their airline and aviation authority.
Primary reason for this? Parents are more likely to be concerned about their kids than getting exit open for other pax. Logical, really. Pax sitting in exit rows are required to be over 16, fit, healthy, able to read and hear instructions, and have no dependents.
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Happiness is a warm L1011
Primary reason for this? Parents are more likely to be concerned about their kids than getting exit open for other pax. Logical, really. Pax sitting in exit rows are required to be over 16, fit, healthy, able to read and hear instructions, and have no dependents.
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Happiness is a warm L1011
Guest
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I've been watching this one evolve recently, and have to agree with those who suffer at the hands of those 'asserting their right to recline'. 121decimal5 has my genuine symapthy and support.
The CAA in conjunction with some eurocrats is at present re-evaluating the minimum seat pitch/width requirements, in light of the fact that people on average are much taller than they were when said limits were introduced. The re-evaluation, I undertand, is looking only from a safety perspective, and not from a comfort viewpoint.
However, there is a very real health threat that is well established medically, that being the risk of deep vein thrombosis. This can develop (and has) when passengers sit with legs pinned stationary for many hours in economy. This is medical fact. The result may be that you feel unwell after 12-24 hours, and can die (blood clots move to lungs etc.. It does not happen often, but I do think this needs considered by CAA et.al.
The Airlines know that passengers despise the lack of room in economy, but where they must compete on price, and their is no regulatory limit (current CAA pitch minimum is 26" I think) then leg room is a casualty.
Their is light on the horizon, at present American Airlines are reversing the trend and changing their aircraft so that coach class (economy) has more legroom. I dont know of any others, but lets keep hoping that someone else will see the light.
If you knowingly recline your seat to someone elses discomfort then you should be asked to leave (at 34,000 feet)!
The CAA in conjunction with some eurocrats is at present re-evaluating the minimum seat pitch/width requirements, in light of the fact that people on average are much taller than they were when said limits were introduced. The re-evaluation, I undertand, is looking only from a safety perspective, and not from a comfort viewpoint.
However, there is a very real health threat that is well established medically, that being the risk of deep vein thrombosis. This can develop (and has) when passengers sit with legs pinned stationary for many hours in economy. This is medical fact. The result may be that you feel unwell after 12-24 hours, and can die (blood clots move to lungs etc.. It does not happen often, but I do think this needs considered by CAA et.al.
The Airlines know that passengers despise the lack of room in economy, but where they must compete on price, and their is no regulatory limit (current CAA pitch minimum is 26" I think) then leg room is a casualty.
Their is light on the horizon, at present American Airlines are reversing the trend and changing their aircraft so that coach class (economy) has more legroom. I dont know of any others, but lets keep hoping that someone else will see the light.
If you knowingly recline your seat to someone elses discomfort then you should be asked to leave (at 34,000 feet)!
Guest
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Teeter -
I agree to a point. I was brought up to give up my seat on public transport/help people less able than myself, etc. And I frequently still do. So what are my 'responsibilities' towards someone who is causing me or the person I am travelling with, physical and mental distress? I also have responsibilities to myself and the people I travel with, and would despise myself if I just put up and shut up.
I agree with SLF about the seats but that is going to be a long time coming. In the meantime ....?
I agree to a point. I was brought up to give up my seat on public transport/help people less able than myself, etc. And I frequently still do. So what are my 'responsibilities' towards someone who is causing me or the person I am travelling with, physical and mental distress? I also have responsibilities to myself and the people I travel with, and would despise myself if I just put up and shut up.
I agree with SLF about the seats but that is going to be a long time coming. In the meantime ....?
Guest
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Simitra--I have in the past asked people, as kindly as possible, to stop doing things on board planes that were driving me crazy...and was met with utter and complete hostility, and an intensification of the problem behavior. I have found that people on planes are often like animals crowded too intensively in cages--they are desperately protective of what little space they have, and often are very defensive of whatever it is they are doing. Let's face it, a long flight in economy is miserably uncomfortable, and nobody likes being told to stop doing something that they view as an activity that is increasing their pathetic "comfort" level. On a long-term level, I fervently hope that change is forced to come about, maybe somehow through the health and safety angle. It's amazing more people don't suffer serious adverse health affects from being pinned immobile into their seats for hours. Not to mention the emergency evacuation implications of being jammed into your seat, unable to move, pinned against the wall...
Guest
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As a Purser for a charter airline, I do agree that reclining seats, along with that other emotive subject - smoking - is the cause of much consternation and altercation amongst customers on board.
However lets be sensible about this and be objective.
1) Although a recline button is there and allows people to have a 'little' more comfort, can you imagine for example being forced to sit litterally bolt upright for as much as 11-26 hours i.e LGW-MCO, LGW-CUN or worst example LGW-BAH-SIN-SYD. I'm sure there would still be whingers over that one.
"I was forced to sit for 24 hrs unable to recline my seat" (Yes I know some seats are fixed at bulkheads and exits).
2) The facility and does actually allow for a little relief in the lower back, I know what I'm talking about I'm 6'2.
3) So much of the niggly things on board with tact and diplomacy can help, some people cause problems for themselves.
If the person in front does not comply with a polite request to bring their seat upright during a meal service, then ask the cabin crew in the galley area away from the offending customer to mediate. Don't start a scene in the cabin, you'll lose sympathy from everyone. That's what we're there for, to solve your problems. Ask straight away if there are spare seats available, we know which ones are. Grab them straight after take off, but ask the cabin crew.
4) You have got a mouth, use it. Don't suffer in silence, the guy in front is not telepathic. Say something like 'Can you do me a big favour just while I'm eating, could you please bring your seatback upright, then put it back afterwards' - I did this recently and met no problems.
5) The recline button is in everyone's seat,
It's there to provide you with a bit more comfort, no matter how little. I always say to people "why don't you put yours back too,
that's what it's there for" However during a meal service unless someone is spark out asleep I insist they bring their seat upright.
6)Don't bring too much hand luggage that you need to put under the seat infront, stow items in the overhead if suitable. Being able to stretch legs under seats, alleviates the knees in back of seat in front syndrome.
Albeit to a lesser degree on charters.
7) And at all times be polite and don't antagonise the situation by blatantly pushing a reclined seat and it's occupant forwards, no matter how tempting. It could make for many tense hours.
The only situation I encountered recently was where the upper deck of a B747-200 I was on, only had narrow side compartments below windows and no lockers and this caused many problems with comfort with everyone of the 30 "in the lump" having to juggle with bags, jackets, blankets and pillows. I think some people with big coats and big hand bagage may have opted for main deck if they had known.
Finally get to know the aircraft you are flying on, ask for seatplans, check in early, and if you find a seat which you like ask for it or one similar.
I found BA ground/cabin crew suprisingly helpful on the days I flew with them recently.
However lets be sensible about this and be objective.
1) Although a recline button is there and allows people to have a 'little' more comfort, can you imagine for example being forced to sit litterally bolt upright for as much as 11-26 hours i.e LGW-MCO, LGW-CUN or worst example LGW-BAH-SIN-SYD. I'm sure there would still be whingers over that one.
"I was forced to sit for 24 hrs unable to recline my seat" (Yes I know some seats are fixed at bulkheads and exits).
2) The facility and does actually allow for a little relief in the lower back, I know what I'm talking about I'm 6'2.
3) So much of the niggly things on board with tact and diplomacy can help, some people cause problems for themselves.
If the person in front does not comply with a polite request to bring their seat upright during a meal service, then ask the cabin crew in the galley area away from the offending customer to mediate. Don't start a scene in the cabin, you'll lose sympathy from everyone. That's what we're there for, to solve your problems. Ask straight away if there are spare seats available, we know which ones are. Grab them straight after take off, but ask the cabin crew.
4) You have got a mouth, use it. Don't suffer in silence, the guy in front is not telepathic. Say something like 'Can you do me a big favour just while I'm eating, could you please bring your seatback upright, then put it back afterwards' - I did this recently and met no problems.
5) The recline button is in everyone's seat,
It's there to provide you with a bit more comfort, no matter how little. I always say to people "why don't you put yours back too,
that's what it's there for" However during a meal service unless someone is spark out asleep I insist they bring their seat upright.
6)Don't bring too much hand luggage that you need to put under the seat infront, stow items in the overhead if suitable. Being able to stretch legs under seats, alleviates the knees in back of seat in front syndrome.
Albeit to a lesser degree on charters.
7) And at all times be polite and don't antagonise the situation by blatantly pushing a reclined seat and it's occupant forwards, no matter how tempting. It could make for many tense hours.
The only situation I encountered recently was where the upper deck of a B747-200 I was on, only had narrow side compartments below windows and no lockers and this caused many problems with comfort with everyone of the 30 "in the lump" having to juggle with bags, jackets, blankets and pillows. I think some people with big coats and big hand bagage may have opted for main deck if they had known.
Finally get to know the aircraft you are flying on, ask for seatplans, check in early, and if you find a seat which you like ask for it or one similar.
I found BA ground/cabin crew suprisingly helpful on the days I flew with them recently.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Rather depressed that so many people don't have the innate courtesy and consideration not to recline their chairs when the meal is served.
Last week on an overnight transatlantic flight, the woman in front my other half had her seat reclined right from the beginning - affected not to hear our request to put it up for the meal, but did so when asked by the FA. In my experience very few people refuse to put their seat up if the FA asks them.
Which suggests a possible solution: how aboout an announcement at the end of the safety demonstration requesting passengers not to recline their seats until after the meal service is complete? I think most people would comply, and it would send out a message that it's socially unacceptable to recline your seat when the poor sod behind you is trying to eat.
I'm not in favour of a ban altogether - was happy to recline my seat later in the flight to try and get some sleep - though I checked the person behind me was asleep (and also reclined) before doing so. That said, it was on a elderly L1011, so quite roomy - some of the charter planes nowadays are so cramped I'm not sure it's feasible.
Any cabin crew out there who would care to share their views? It must be an issue for you too, as you have to sort out the disputes between passengers.
Last week on an overnight transatlantic flight, the woman in front my other half had her seat reclined right from the beginning - affected not to hear our request to put it up for the meal, but did so when asked by the FA. In my experience very few people refuse to put their seat up if the FA asks them.
Which suggests a possible solution: how aboout an announcement at the end of the safety demonstration requesting passengers not to recline their seats until after the meal service is complete? I think most people would comply, and it would send out a message that it's socially unacceptable to recline your seat when the poor sod behind you is trying to eat.
I'm not in favour of a ban altogether - was happy to recline my seat later in the flight to try and get some sleep - though I checked the person behind me was asleep (and also reclined) before doing so. That said, it was on a elderly L1011, so quite roomy - some of the charter planes nowadays are so cramped I'm not sure it's feasible.
Any cabin crew out there who would care to share their views? It must be an issue for you too, as you have to sort out the disputes between passengers.
Guest
Posts: n/a
This year I’ve noticed BA asking passengers (individually) to put their seatbacks upright as the grub is served. Seems sensible to me, and most pax get the idea when they overhear someone else being asked.
I’ve perfected using my toes to push the pax in front’s shoes back out – why do they think they can store then under their seat?
Personally, I recline when the bloke in front does.
Have to agree on shorthaul – no need to have reclining seats at all
Went to LHR-JFK horizontally in June (upgrade!), now THAT’s the way to fly!
(Sorry about the name, Self L...)
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29A please!
I’ve perfected using my toes to push the pax in front’s shoes back out – why do they think they can store then under their seat?
Personally, I recline when the bloke in front does.
Have to agree on shorthaul – no need to have reclining seats at all
Went to LHR-JFK horizontally in June (upgrade!), now THAT’s the way to fly!
(Sorry about the name, Self L...)
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29A please!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Er, Goldie
It's well known that your feet swell in flight and I for one always remove my shoes on long haul. As for the noxious smells, that's what the over-socks are for. If you're unfortunate enough to be in economy (no over-socks), you'll find that the dessicating atmosphere will quickly dry out any malodourous footwear, rendering it inoffensive.
It's well known that your feet swell in flight and I for one always remove my shoes on long haul. As for the noxious smells, that's what the over-socks are for. If you're unfortunate enough to be in economy (no over-socks), you'll find that the dessicating atmosphere will quickly dry out any malodourous footwear, rendering it inoffensive.
