Virgin Atlantic "Operational reasons"
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
From: Surrey, UK
Virgin Atlantic "Operational reasons"
Can anyone explain why Virgin's pm flights from LGW to Orlando are leaving typically 3 to 4 hours late on a regular basis due to "operational reasons", yet PAX are still expected to check in on time and endure 6 hours or more in the hell-hole of the departure lounge? I took family member on 31 Dec to LGW, previous evening there was already an expected delay of over 3 hours so I phoned early am to their HQ and was told that check-in was still normal time. On arrival at LGW, which was almost deserted in south terminal, it was confirmed that there was a large delay and no chance of it being recovered. Since then I have been monitoring performance of this flight, VS015, and it's the same set-up... sometimes the delays are even worse.
I suspect that they have a plane or crew issue; anyone got positive information please?
I suspect that they have a plane or crew issue; anyone got positive information please?
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
From: West Sussex
I don't know for sure, but I would imagine it's probably a combination of the recent disruption at LGW caused by the weather plus the additional security checks and procedures that have been put in place for flights going to the USA since the attempted terrorist attack on Christmas Day.
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 1
Speaking generally, you only have to look outside of your window to see the problems. Snow and ice are preventing a sizeable proportion of the population from getting into work. That is not just aircrew, but check-in staff, baggage loaders, cleaners, fuel truck drivers, ground handling staff, ramp supervisors, de-icing rig operators, air traffic controllers, bus drivers, security staff, etc.
Most people are working around the clock, extra shifts, days off and overtime to cover for absent staff and to cope with the unusually high workloads.
None of this is aided by Gatwick Airports abyssmal performance at running a major international airport over the Christmas period. That notwithstanding, all of the staff who work there, and the airlines are still trying to achieve on-time dispatch, or the closest they can possibly achieve given the disruptions they are currently having to contend with.
Obviously in many regards it is a constant juggling act. With that in mind, you need to ensure that as many of the variables as possible are regularised. Clearly passengers need to be at the airport on time (although many will still be late for all the same reasons,) so that you are in a basic position to dispatch if an improvement can be implemented.
It often happens that aircraft, crew and personnel are substituted where an otherwise delayed flight can be dispatched because all the other variables are ready. Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't. The problem with delaying passengers is that it not only guarantees the anticipated delay, but it also invites further additional delay for a whole host of scheduling reasons. In other words delays are often easier to manage than simply re-scheduling a flight into a new departure slot where for example baggage loaders are not available until a gap appears in their programme.
In the current operating environment I would be grateful the delays are only running around 3-4 hours as it affects your flight. They have been in excess of 36 hours over the last few days, and disruption is likely to continue over the next few days.
Most people are working around the clock, extra shifts, days off and overtime to cover for absent staff and to cope with the unusually high workloads.
None of this is aided by Gatwick Airports abyssmal performance at running a major international airport over the Christmas period. That notwithstanding, all of the staff who work there, and the airlines are still trying to achieve on-time dispatch, or the closest they can possibly achieve given the disruptions they are currently having to contend with.
Obviously in many regards it is a constant juggling act. With that in mind, you need to ensure that as many of the variables as possible are regularised. Clearly passengers need to be at the airport on time (although many will still be late for all the same reasons,) so that you are in a basic position to dispatch if an improvement can be implemented.
It often happens that aircraft, crew and personnel are substituted where an otherwise delayed flight can be dispatched because all the other variables are ready. Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't. The problem with delaying passengers is that it not only guarantees the anticipated delay, but it also invites further additional delay for a whole host of scheduling reasons. In other words delays are often easier to manage than simply re-scheduling a flight into a new departure slot where for example baggage loaders are not available until a gap appears in their programme.
In the current operating environment I would be grateful the delays are only running around 3-4 hours as it affects your flight. They have been in excess of 36 hours over the last few days, and disruption is likely to continue over the next few days.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
From: Outside the EU on a small Island
I'm truly glad I don't run an airline at the moment.
What with ...
I'd be both grateful and surprised if any carrier actually functions at the moment. It's called "the Real World", I think.
What with ...
- Weather
- Security
- Finance
- Cabin Crew disruption [BA]
- Ground transportation
- Global economy
I'd be both grateful and surprised if any carrier actually functions at the moment. It's called "the Real World", I think.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 267
Likes: 31
From: UK
Rumour has it that Heathrow is running out of deicing fluid .
Don't say that!. I'm currently sat in the clubhouse at T3 for tonights VS200 to Hong Kong. When the nice lady met me from the car she said "we should be on time but there may be a delay for de-icing".
Oh well......I'll just have another beer or maybe a glass of champers and sit and watch the people with the luminous ping pong bats direct the aeroplanes around in the cold through the window.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
From: Surrey, UK
..... but on 31 Dec, there was no snow or ice or reason for transport issues to affect staff getting to the airport. The flight was also almost empty so it would not have taken very long to conduct the "additioanl screening" security checks. Still there was an almost 4 hour delay for a reason that Virgin will not divulge to me when I complained.
Relative's return flight this morning was 5 hours late.... should have arrived at 07:05 but got in around mid-day; at least she was given meal vouchers in the USA to eat before she flew. On Saturday 9th, this same flight was on time. Over this period, BA's flights to Orlando have suffered delays but nothing like as bad as Virgin's.
I think that Virgin have issues of some sort hence posing the original question.
Anyone have any info please?
Relative's return flight this morning was 5 hours late.... should have arrived at 07:05 but got in around mid-day; at least she was given meal vouchers in the USA to eat before she flew. On Saturday 9th, this same flight was on time. Over this period, BA's flights to Orlando have suffered delays but nothing like as bad as Virgin's.
I think that Virgin have issues of some sort hence posing the original question.
Anyone have any info please?
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
From: Outside the EU on a small Island
It might have been a technical problem with the aircraft... which the operator would not, obviously, wish to share with the paying public who are not supposed to know about such matters. It might, for example, have ended up carrying a minor [but perfectly legal] defect.
Would you REALLY want to know that?
Would you REALLY want to know that?
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,181
Likes: 1
From: any town as retired.
Two tone Blue: yes I would like to know
It would suggest to me, and I hope to any SLF, that the airline has a professional mtce organisation, and a competant defect reporting system in hand.
gfl
gfl
Joined: Sep 2009
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 11,979
Likes: 110
From: UK
Few years ago we were on VS022 from IAD to LHR and after boarding the CC came on and wanted volunteers to give up their seats, overbooked??
Various offers were made on the tannoy through hotel in Washington and upgrade to business class the following day,to compensation to free flights to anywhere on the Virgin network there were no takers till the last offer then our hand(s) went up and we took there last (best) offer
We had 5* hotel Washington for 1 night, upgrade to business class the following days flight £250ea compo and 2 free return trips, cattle class, but what the heck, to SYD
Did not bother me why they needed to offload but what a result
Of note was that when we got back to GB and for 2 weeks after checked the performance of VS022 and each day it averaged a delay of 90 mins
Perhaps not a similar problem to the tread originator but in our case perhaps Richard should put on a 744 instead of the usual 343
Various offers were made on the tannoy through hotel in Washington and upgrade to business class the following day,to compensation to free flights to anywhere on the Virgin network there were no takers till the last offer then our hand(s) went up and we took there last (best) offer
We had 5* hotel Washington for 1 night, upgrade to business class the following days flight £250ea compo and 2 free return trips, cattle class, but what the heck, to SYD
Did not bother me why they needed to offload but what a result
Of note was that when we got back to GB and for 2 weeks after checked the performance of VS022 and each day it averaged a delay of 90 mins
Perhaps not a similar problem to the tread originator but in our case perhaps Richard should put on a 744 instead of the usual 343
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 440
Likes: 5
From: Hampshire
The LGW aircraft are mainly the older 747's that VS have and may require more tlc than a newer one. I did VS to Orlando in Nov 2008 and were 3 hours late leaving (inbound a/c was late in from Las Vegas) and on the return leg had both LGW bound 747's on the ground in Orlando at the same time. Can normally pick up this flight on 'magic box' and it is often this late.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 0
From: Dublin
Over this period, BA's flights to Orlando have suffered delays but nothing like as bad as Virgin's.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 2
From: Iraq and other places
Few years ago we were on VS022 from IAD to LHR and after boarding the CC came on and wanted volunteers to give up their seats, overbooked??
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 469
Likes: 0
From: Sussex,UK
Sorry, apaddyinuk, but I agree with Albert Salmon. I was a bit surprised with the way you wrote that post. I don't particularly think the muppet comment was neccessary either.
Apologies for the drift...
Jsl
(Another BA crew member!)
Apologies for the drift...
Jsl
(Another BA crew member!)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Paddy and I have had some good ding dongs over the years and we're certainly not each other's fan club leader, but I read his post as inferring that VS at least managed to operate a service and get people home.
So not revelling in BA's cancellations, but giving credit where credti due.
Seems reasonable to me.
So not revelling in BA's cancellations, but giving credit where credti due.
Seems reasonable to me.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
From: edinburgh
[quote][/QUOTHow on earth can this happen?? Surely they would know about overbooking at check-in, and deal with it there - are you saying that they actually checked too many people onto the plane? That would sound like an incredible display of stupidity! Is there any sensible explanation for how this could happen? E]
What it means is that there are still passengers left at check-in without seat asignment, if they are unwilling to accept denied boarding airlines will look for volunteers and sometimes this may be at last minute when aircraft is already boarded, hence call made onboard.
What it means is that there are still passengers left at check-in without seat asignment, if they are unwilling to accept denied boarding airlines will look for volunteers and sometimes this may be at last minute when aircraft is already boarded, hence call made onboard.