Invasion of the Body Scanners
Join Date: Aug 2007
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These scanners use millimeter wave (high radio frequency) technology which is not ionising. The only radiation which has enough energy to ionise is the likes of UV, X-rays and Gamma rays. Microwaves from your phone for example, cannot ionise however much power is output. A very high energy microwave might make you feel a little warm inside however.....
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Full body scanner =£100,000ish and apparently unlikely to detect the xmas bombers device.
Sniffer dog = £1000 plus a supply of Pedigree Chum and 99% effective against most explosives.
Where do these morons who govern us get their brains from?
I would love to see who the manufacturer's slush fund recipients are.
Sniffer dog = £1000 plus a supply of Pedigree Chum and 99% effective against most explosives.
Where do these morons who govern us get their brains from?
I would love to see who the manufacturer's slush fund recipients are.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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As a regular flyer, I'm not really concerned about the "flight" part of the process. Despite all the hoo-hah about the Nigerian idiot, the ability to get enough dangerous stuff onboard or enough bad people to enable a 911 scenario has been minimalised. My concern is landside and I have to say that is where I do get twitchy. In the current environment, I think it is the most dangerous part of the process. From the entrance to the terminals to the access routes to scanners/security checks, the environment is highly congested, probably with more people than would be on an aircraft. I'm afraid I can't see how a couple of armed bobbies would deal with the sort of instant devastation that can be caused by two or three committed Terry T.
Paxing All Over The World
Bally Heck
Managers and politicians always prefer to buy hardware. They like toys that they can see. Lots of whirring and flashing lights is always preferable to the really hard graft of human interface.
Dogs are cheaper and more user friendly and, I should not be surprised, more efficient because their noses don't get bored looking at a screen and, even if they are not looking at the target - their nose is still working. BUT - they will always buy machines that hold out the ideal of being fair and equal and impartial and blah blah blah.
The manufacturers do not need a slush fund. They only have to invent it - and it gets bought. The equivalent is arms makers. They simply invent a more efficient rifle/bullet/grenade and the military are salivating to have it. I expect that many airport managers are thrilled at being compelled to buy this stuff. I did work in IT for 25+ years and have seen the way hardware attracts them.
Where do these morons who govern us get their brains from?
Dogs are cheaper and more user friendly and, I should not be surprised, more efficient because their noses don't get bored looking at a screen and, even if they are not looking at the target - their nose is still working. BUT - they will always buy machines that hold out the ideal of being fair and equal and impartial and blah blah blah.
The manufacturers do not need a slush fund. They only have to invent it - and it gets bought. The equivalent is arms makers. They simply invent a more efficient rifle/bullet/grenade and the military are salivating to have it. I expect that many airport managers are thrilled at being compelled to buy this stuff. I did work in IT for 25+ years and have seen the way hardware attracts them.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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A bit of levity to a difficult problem - warning, there is a bit of swearing:
YouTube - Ronnie Johns - Chopper Airport Security
YouTube - Ronnie Johns - Chopper Airport Security
Join Date: Sep 2007
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These body scanners have being around for a while. Just not used at most airports.
THEY have being waiting for an incident like this to URGENTLY approve their use at airports.
Just so long as all the d*****d polititions and security d*****ds have to be scanned every time as well. No exceptions.
When you see the number of vehicles going airside, it would be much easier to hide explosives on, or in those vehicles.
The terrorist d*****ds win every time, because of the HUGE cost and inconvenience they are causing to all airline paxs and crew.
They must be sitting in their little caves in the hills of Afganistan and Yemen laughing their heads off.
THEY have being waiting for an incident like this to URGENTLY approve their use at airports.
Just so long as all the d*****d polititions and security d*****ds have to be scanned every time as well. No exceptions.
When you see the number of vehicles going airside, it would be much easier to hide explosives on, or in those vehicles.
The terrorist d*****ds win every time, because of the HUGE cost and inconvenience they are causing to all airline paxs and crew.
They must be sitting in their little caves in the hills of Afganistan and Yemen laughing their heads off.
Last edited by Mr Pilot 2007; 7th Jan 2010 at 07:10.
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I am a 65-year-old frequent flyer, with very few hangups about having to undergo security procedures before embarking.
But if a certain middle-aged security operative at LGW north terminal gropes my genital again on the pretence of "frisking me" I will scream (yes, scream) blue bloody murder.
The last time he did that (27 December 2009, 07:15 a.m.) I glanced towards his security clearance badge. He immediately covered it with his hand, telling me that his name was "privileged and confidential information".
But if a certain middle-aged security operative at LGW north terminal gropes my genital again on the pretence of "frisking me" I will scream (yes, scream) blue bloody murder.
The last time he did that (27 December 2009, 07:15 a.m.) I glanced towards his security clearance badge. He immediately covered it with his hand, telling me that his name was "privileged and confidential information".
Join Date: Jul 2000
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In my opinion it soumds like a sexual assault. Call the police. You cannot reasonably expect to have your genitals groped everytime you go to the airport.
A person (A) commits an offence if— .
(a)
he intentionally touches another person (B), .
(b)
the touching is sexual, .
(c)
B does not consent to the touching, and .
(d)
A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
A certain person groping genitals regularly has to be sexual doesn't it?
A person (A) commits an offence if— .
(a)
he intentionally touches another person (B), .
(b)
the touching is sexual, .
(c)
B does not consent to the touching, and .
(d)
A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
A certain person groping genitals regularly has to be sexual doesn't it?
Flapskew,
We will understand if you decline to tell us under what circumstances you came into posession of this information. 
What happens to those with silicone breast or testicle implants? I know a few crew with such implants
Paxing All Over The World
Basil
On the contrary, you HAVE to tell us all you know. It is a LEGAL requirement of having made the statement.
Come on, we need something to cheer us up in the snow.
We will understand if you decline to tell us under what circumstances you came into possession of this information.
Come on, we need something to cheer us up in the snow.
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scanning machines were designed to cut staff numbers.
The original concept for body scanners was to reduce manning levels of security staff and increase the " Find " rate of would be baddies.
The machines have been in the design mode for a number of years and there are various models with various screens for viewing. ( Body as per newspapers and stick men/women for the equal rights brigade)
The pressure on airports to increase efficency, find rates and footfall within the terminal shops has been highlighted at various times.
Low cost airlines placed even greater pressure on the airports to increase "buying time" within these outlets.
As for the cost of these machines,,, why has it not been taken from the security levy which each passenger has been paying for over the past number of years, originaly , I beleive that one of the reasons was to ensure nobody could gain access to the flight deck,,,,,, must have been an awful lot of flightdecks.
The DfT appear to have the mindset of " We know best and, you will do as we say" which smacks of civil servant , eighteenth century school boys ignorance.
Whilst I am sure that these people try to justify the measures which they lay down, surely it would be of more benefit to take the best parts of security on a worldwide basis.
There has been an attempt by the EU to standardise the security requirements of all member states, unfortunately not every member state can afford the same costs.
Therefore chaos rules, and whatever can go wrong, will go wrong.
Maybe an ideal world of technology and passenger profiling, supported by government agencies and a constant updating of security staff on security threats and issues, instead of the secrecy policies that senior members of staff seem to have.
Just like the DfT when they test the systems, the staff are not informed at the time, but some hours later after the DfT speak with the managers, I assume that it must be a secret, shame that you leave the staff who failed the test carrying on with their duties for a number of hours.
Suppose there will never be a truly secure airport.
The machines have been in the design mode for a number of years and there are various models with various screens for viewing. ( Body as per newspapers and stick men/women for the equal rights brigade)
The pressure on airports to increase efficency, find rates and footfall within the terminal shops has been highlighted at various times.
Low cost airlines placed even greater pressure on the airports to increase "buying time" within these outlets.
As for the cost of these machines,,, why has it not been taken from the security levy which each passenger has been paying for over the past number of years, originaly , I beleive that one of the reasons was to ensure nobody could gain access to the flight deck,,,,,, must have been an awful lot of flightdecks.
The DfT appear to have the mindset of " We know best and, you will do as we say" which smacks of civil servant , eighteenth century school boys ignorance.
Whilst I am sure that these people try to justify the measures which they lay down, surely it would be of more benefit to take the best parts of security on a worldwide basis.
There has been an attempt by the EU to standardise the security requirements of all member states, unfortunately not every member state can afford the same costs.
Therefore chaos rules, and whatever can go wrong, will go wrong.
Maybe an ideal world of technology and passenger profiling, supported by government agencies and a constant updating of security staff on security threats and issues, instead of the secrecy policies that senior members of staff seem to have.
Just like the DfT when they test the systems, the staff are not informed at the time, but some hours later after the DfT speak with the managers, I assume that it must be a secret, shame that you leave the staff who failed the test carrying on with their duties for a number of hours.
Suppose there will never be a truly secure airport.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Puts it all in context doesn't it?
Paxing All Over The World
tigermoth123 You really shouldn't write about things like common sense and government departments and cross-Europe coordination in the same paragraph. Please, just act as dumb as they do. 
Welcome aboard the cabin of PPRuNe, you'll find everything runs very smoothly here, the service is fantastic and no one ever argues with anyone else - just harmony and light between you and your fellow pax.
Welcome aboard the cabin of PPRuNe, you'll find everything runs very smoothly here, the service is fantastic and no one ever argues with anyone else - just harmony and light between you and your fellow pax.
Sorry, I just had to post this one.
In an attempt to go one better at smuggling explosives onto an aircraft, a suicide bomber has an enema and replaces the entire contents of his lower bowel with Semtex.
Despite appearing nervous and suspicious, he passes through all the sophisticated automatic detection equipment and feeling very confident, approaches the hand baggage check.
The baggage checker looks through his hand luggage and sizes him up.
"Sorry mate", the baggage checker says , "You can't board the aircraft"
"But why not? - You haven't found anything in my luggage"
"I know" says the checker - but we're well trained and I can tell that you're carrying more than 100ml of shampoo"
In an attempt to go one better at smuggling explosives onto an aircraft, a suicide bomber has an enema and replaces the entire contents of his lower bowel with Semtex.
Despite appearing nervous and suspicious, he passes through all the sophisticated automatic detection equipment and feeling very confident, approaches the hand baggage check.
The baggage checker looks through his hand luggage and sizes him up.
"Sorry mate", the baggage checker says , "You can't board the aircraft"
"But why not? - You haven't found anything in my luggage"
"I know" says the checker - but we're well trained and I can tell that you're carrying more than 100ml of shampoo"
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To be completely honest, these full body scanners do not bother me in anyway, and I doubt my family will really care. I have been through them many times before in Schiphol (of all places!!!) and they don't bother me. But I do agree that the question is are they really going to improve security, are they that good?
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Until someone comes up with a way of discerning intent, none of this security equipment is going to be any great use. In George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four, the Thought Police were able to control the population using a mix of psychology and surveillance. However, it seems this was a teensy bit labour-intensive, and if replicated in the real world might be considered over-intrusive. But perhaps we might nonetheless be better using more psychology and surveillance, and fewer physical searches generally.
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Body scanner images are recorded
The powers to be @ LHR want the public to believe the naked body scans are deleted automatically through software.
Let us not forget a dose of so many roentegens of radiation every time...
There are many historic examples of forced nudity...Prison, death chamber, rape, etc...
Check this link.
digg.com/.../Indian_Actor_autographed_Airport_Naked_Body_Scanner_Images.
Couldn't be the politicians are once again linning there own pockets, with investments in this technology.
Lets make the right moves for the right reasons, not just for submission's sake.
One slice of Salami at a time, and the war is lost.
Let us not forget a dose of so many roentegens of radiation every time...
There are many historic examples of forced nudity...Prison, death chamber, rape, etc...
Check this link.
digg.com/.../Indian_Actor_autographed_Airport_Naked_Body_Scanner_Images.
Couldn't be the politicians are once again linning there own pockets, with investments in this technology.
Lets make the right moves for the right reasons, not just for submission's sake.
One slice of Salami at a time, and the war is lost.
