Terminal 5

[Final 3 Greens]

What happened to OR?

BA do need more, direct facts and stories from staff using T5.

BA used to have some seriously bright people in Operational Research (I worked alongside some for 6 months), who were quite capable of auditing performance in any part of an operation (including BAA's performance) and cutting through the BS, with quantitative analysis.

So what happened to OR?

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by Final 3 Greens

So what happened to OR?

A triumph of the (small p) politics playing know-nothings over the competent know-everythings.

[Skipness One Echo]

At other airports, the FIDS manages a 'go to gate' alert, why not for the satellites at T5? More pertinently, why is it not possble to know the gate at -3 hours? Unstable stand planning seems a likey culprit, which is unbelievable in a purpose built new terminal. They can allocate stands at -24 in AMS.

I think the reality here is that at AMS I have never seen a full terminal with no free stands. There are always free stands when busy. Due to our British lack of foresight, I know that Terminal 3 at LHR is occasionally actually full, ie no more room. Inbound aircraft are advised on approach by handling that "no stand allocated as yet" due to the fact that they may be waiting on a flight to clear from the gate they are supposed to be on but it's going to be either a gate change or a ground hold. LHR has less space for the flights it has and so stand planning is that much more dynamic.
Bit like hot bedding in the NHS, they had enough bother getting permission to build T5 the size it is and it was known even then it wasn't big enough. I have seen T5 airbridge stands maxed out and even pressure on remote parking. That's why it struggles the way it does.
F3G in many ways, modern Britain is regressing alas.

[ExXB]

Funny

The last few times I've been through T5 I've been bused without exception, both long and shorthaul. However the gates at the terminal were NOT all occupied. 65-70% at most. Another reason why (Oh, never mind)

[Momo]

Works fine for me

I have been going there about monthly since it opened. Other than the entertainment of flying out the day it opened, I have always found T5 quite good. The club europe/world lounges are among the very best. My first transit to long haul (to Las Vegas) in T5 will be three weeks from now. (Long haul C fares on BA generally 20-30% higher than LH, LX, AF, KL, so don't use BA normally.)

Lufthansa and Swiss take you to the plane by Porsche Cayenne or Mercedes S-class if you are travelling in first class via a main hub. If you arrive in F, they also take you to the connecting short haul the same way. No special treatement in C.

[Capetonian]

This may be taking it a little too far but :

And the worst airport in the world is ...

London's Heathrow has again been named the worst airport in the world.

London's Heathrow has again been named the worst airport in the world. Photo: Getty Images

Heathrow airport has again been voted the worst airport in the world, according to a global poll of airline passengers.

The survey of members of Priority Pass, the world's leading independent airport lounge programme, included responses from 160 countries. The respondents to the annual survey have taken, on average, 17 flights in the past year.

It is a repeat of last year's result when Heathrow was still recovering from the ill-fated opening of Terminal 5, which saw passengers suffer lengthy flight delays and large numbers of lost bags.

Heathrow Airport, London named world's worst | Changi Airport, Singapore favourite

Worst airports

1. London Heathrow

2. Paris CDG

3. Los Angeles - LAX Intl

4. Frankfurt International

[Final 3 Greens]

I don't agree with the survey results, interestingly enough I have a PP card and no one asked me

However, I would vote pretty LHR high on the list of the most unpleasant airports to use.

[Final 3 Greens]

Momo

The club europe/world lounges are among the very best.

I second that.

My T5 experience is not at all like yours, one wonders how such a variation can happen?

I've been in a Cayenne at ZRH, very nice, but to be honest the shuttle to midfield works well when you are in J and premium pax do get priority gate boarding.

[dubh12000]

An odd list of airports. Frankfurt? I would have both Moscow efforts and Dublin in ahead of LHR to be honest.

The one thing about the T5 lounges I notice is that I need to go to the "silver" lounge for a bowl of porridge in the morning.....porridge is obviously deemed beneath the gold card SLF...

[bealine]

..........porridge is obviously deemed beneath the gold card SLF..

Kedgeree, old chap, is just the ticket! The mainstay of the Army Officer!

Seriously though, I wonder why "we dinna have a wee drop of parritch"? (- to break into the vernacular.) We have many Scottish Golds who I'm sure would wish to start the day with a bowlful of the glutinous food of the glens! Next time I am working in the area, I will ask the Eurest staff why it isn't available in the "First" lounge.

(It probably is available in the "Concorde Room" as most items are available for individual order.)

[Shack37]

Worst airports

1. London Heathrow

2. Paris CDG

3. Los Angeles - LAX Intl

4. Frankfurt International

For about two years now I have used CDG frequently between Bilbao and Aberdeen without the slightest problem. Admittedly this is only shorthaul but it does include going through Passport Control and a change of terminal.
For Passport Control there is an excellent fast lane for pax with short connections. I have never had to wait more than 5 minutes for an inter terminal bus and there is usually one waiting outside the arrival terminal.
Not one of my flights has been delayed nor have I had one lost luggage incident.

Guess I must be lucky eh?

[Jarvy]

But look at the positive Heathrow finished above Zurich in the best airports. Never trust these surveys myself. F3G, now you've handed back your card guess I wouldn't be meeting you in T5.

[Final 3 Greens]

Never trust these surveys myself. F3G, now you've handed back your card guess I wouldn't be meeting you in T5.

Unlikely.

I don't trust these surveys, either.

LHR is nowhere near the 'world's worst airport' (whatever that means), I can think of a lot in the second and third worlds that would have the respondents screaming for mercy by comparison. Also, it is difficult to compare the whole airport, terminals vary so much.

For example, any terminal at LHR is much, much better than terminal 2 at CAI, whereas terminal 3 at CAI is brand new and comparable with T5.

But LHR is unpleasant to use, by which I mean scruffy in some areas (although some well needed refurbishment is underway), sprawling, ill signed in some areas, slow, security is a hassle, expensive (even the hotel transfer bus costs GBP4 each way), so on that basis I can see why people do not like it.

Anyway, it is good that Zurich is not the top of the list, let it keep a low profile and its numbers as they currently are

[k3lvc]

Well having moved 'oop north' recently and suffered the last few weeks of schedule changes to GVA from LBA/LPL/MAN/EMA I decided to give BA a shot on MAN-LHR-GVA. I felt a 1h25m transfer time optimistic from my only other experience (a couple of days after opening) but tonight it was simplicity in itself. Off at the domestic end of T5, straight through transfer gate and into the shopping mall before we should have even landed. Even my bag made it to GVA. Let's hope the return is as painless (though I suspect not)

[Final 3 Greens]

k3lvc

What I don't understand is how you and some other posters have what is clearly a great experience, whereas some others and me have a nightmare.

Why can't a brand new terminal give a consistent experience?

By way of comparison, I recently used T3 for the first time in a couple of years and despite it being heavingly full on a Sunday, it was a far better experience than my encounters at T5, with proper fastrack security (being policed effectively.)

Additionally, I have used T1 a couple of times recently, with Swiss and that was very good, although not so busy, so I will reserve further comment until I try it at a peak period.

What I don't get is how the T3 airlines can get a proper fastrack system and efficient security, when BA (the only user of T5) seems to lack the influence to achieve the same, a point that BA supporters and employees also make on here.

It just does not add up.

[k3lvc]

To be fair last night was a domestic arrival to short haul departure - maybe I ought to reserve judgement until I've done it the other way round tomorrow when presumably I'll have to clear immigration before transferring. Are there IRIS machines in this area anyone ?

[Malone]

BA not standing up to BAA.

F3G,
I too am somewhat at a loss as to the reason why BA do not start telling BAA to improve their service. Presumably they could just withold payment until it is sorted out! It would appear that they are running scared of the BAA for some reason, the same applies at Gatwick.
Does anybody have any further ideas on possible reasons, sensible ones please, not the usual "WW doesn't care as he is going to be CEO of Ryanair etc". This pandering to the BAA has been going on since before WW was even a "twinkle" in the corporate eye!
Time for lunch now.

[Haven't a clue]

I don't know about T3 fast track, but T5's state of the art, designed by experts system should, it seems to me, should work like this:

Move from queue
Stand at one of three positions
Place your bag in the tray in front of you
Place your coat, belt etc in a second tray
Pass through the scanner
Retrieve bag, coat etc from passing tray.

However fast track is for premium pax, who usually have two bags, a laptop requiring separate screening, as well as coat, belt etc. So each pax needs four trays, which presumably was never contemplated by the consultants. Chaos ensues with pax waiting for empty trays to appear thus taking much longer to complete the process. There is also a scramble to recover possessions before the trays wizz out of sight...

It doesn't help that the trays are too small for the accepted sized bag (let alone some of the monsters some people carry). The trays on a similar system at MAN T3 are much bigger (but seem to take a long time to go through the scanner, so maybe size matters?).

On my last trip through T5 the process was reduced to one pax loading trays at a time instead of the three anticipated by the designers.

Delay explained?

[Jarvy]

Well said haven't a clue. Most people seem to carry alot more hand luggage these days, maybe to much.I know the arguement that the hold luggage can get lost or that they might have to wait at the other end but do you really need to carry so much ?
F3G it must be you as T5 is much better than T3.
The vast majority of people pass through T5 with no problems.

[PAXboy]

Not quite without problems ... Externally, have you seen the maze of roads? have you seen the confusing signs? Have you had to drive round the loop to make sure that you have seen all the signs and that you know which one is best for you?

Landside, have you seen the tiny display screen? I have ranted about these before so will be brief. Many airports now use flat screen displays slung vertically. They are cheap and can be drive by a standard PC. But the displayed characters are so small - you have to stand less than 3m away to read them. This causes bunching around them and you cannot sit (even if there were seats!) 15m away out of the rush and midning your own business waiting for the flight to be signalled.