Terminal 5
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: West Wales and Zug, Switzerland
Age: 63
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Me never, nobody would let me up the front, but have traveled in all the other parts of the plane. Mrs J travels mainly in Club but has traveled up front but only when I'm not with her!!!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm a fan of T5
When it works well anyway, which has been my usual experience. Very calm, quiet, I like the airiness, it doesn't feel crowded, toilets are clean! And when I've used it its been very quick to get through.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Surrey
Age: 67
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with you Jonathan,
There are much worse places to be. I have never had a problem. The longest queue is often at WH Smiths!!
Withe regards to the security queues, I often find that the entrance up near the First check-in area is a lot less crowded for some reason.
There are much worse places to be. I have never had a problem. The longest queue is often at WH Smiths!!
Withe regards to the security queues, I often find that the entrance up near the First check-in area is a lot less crowded for some reason.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Terminal 5 - Groundhog Day
Having failed to find the recent thread on T5, I wish to share my experiences of using it on Friday 23 October, circa 6pm.
I chose BA/T5 because of schedule considerations and given that I was starting my journey in London, after completing a work engagement in the city. Class booked was J.
I arrived on the HEX and immediately found it difficult to get a lift (elevator) as they seemed to arrive at random, with little warning and people were literally pushing each other to get on board. Got one after a few minutes.
I had checked in online and very carefully read the instructions about the need for a visa check for certain countries. I had a visa for my trip, but it was not on the list, so I went straight to security south, passing the visa check desk and verifiying that my destination was not listed on the very clear signage.
Having queued for the 'fastrack' entrance (more later), I was then denied entry and told to report to BA. The reason, a requirement for a visa check
When I returned, 50% of the total security lanes were closed and the 'fastrack' lane was making such slow progress that 5-6 of us asked to be let out, which the BAA lady i/c agreed to (also she apologized very gracefully and sincerely.)
Even so, it still took about 30 minutes to clear security.
The progress to the Terraces lounge required a good deal of vertical navigation, much more effort than accessing the Star* at ZRH.
The lounge itself was good, with plenty of capacity, a decent selection of snacks and drinks and helpful staff.
The stand was allocated well after I had checked into the lounge and was in the B satellite.
This was less than optimum, as the transfer across took about 15 minutes and whilst it didn't cause me any problems (as I predicted the boarding time and arrived just after the first call), it would have been better if there was some system of pre-boarding alert to prompt pax to start across.
At the boarding gate, there was no priority for premium pax and neither the escalator nor the lift was working, so people were having to walk down a flight of stairs with their hand luggage, inconvenient and potentially dangerous.
It also is a poor reflection of stand planning in a new terminal, when the gate is allocated relatively so late - seems like the 'on the day' plan may not have been very stable.
This experience was pretty much the same as the last time I used T5 in February this year.
Using ZRH (Main terminal and mid-field) as a benchmark index of 1.0, I would give terminal five a rating of 0.5.
I have just booked my next middle eastern trip and have chosed Swiss and ZRH once again.
Morale of the story (and bearing in mind that the flight left on time and was a good product), BA needs to work with BAA to improve the service, why 50% of security lanes closed at 6pm on a Friday evening? Why was I messed around with the visa check, when I followed the instructions to the letter?
In short, T5 could be world class, but on my two most recent experiences, it is not satisfactory for people who pay a large premium and then do not get the service levels that this should provide.
I chose BA/T5 because of schedule considerations and given that I was starting my journey in London, after completing a work engagement in the city. Class booked was J.
I arrived on the HEX and immediately found it difficult to get a lift (elevator) as they seemed to arrive at random, with little warning and people were literally pushing each other to get on board. Got one after a few minutes.
I had checked in online and very carefully read the instructions about the need for a visa check for certain countries. I had a visa for my trip, but it was not on the list, so I went straight to security south, passing the visa check desk and verifiying that my destination was not listed on the very clear signage.
Having queued for the 'fastrack' entrance (more later), I was then denied entry and told to report to BA. The reason, a requirement for a visa check
When I returned, 50% of the total security lanes were closed and the 'fastrack' lane was making such slow progress that 5-6 of us asked to be let out, which the BAA lady i/c agreed to (also she apologized very gracefully and sincerely.)
Even so, it still took about 30 minutes to clear security.
The progress to the Terraces lounge required a good deal of vertical navigation, much more effort than accessing the Star* at ZRH.
The lounge itself was good, with plenty of capacity, a decent selection of snacks and drinks and helpful staff.
The stand was allocated well after I had checked into the lounge and was in the B satellite.
This was less than optimum, as the transfer across took about 15 minutes and whilst it didn't cause me any problems (as I predicted the boarding time and arrived just after the first call), it would have been better if there was some system of pre-boarding alert to prompt pax to start across.
At the boarding gate, there was no priority for premium pax and neither the escalator nor the lift was working, so people were having to walk down a flight of stairs with their hand luggage, inconvenient and potentially dangerous.
It also is a poor reflection of stand planning in a new terminal, when the gate is allocated relatively so late - seems like the 'on the day' plan may not have been very stable.
This experience was pretty much the same as the last time I used T5 in February this year.
Using ZRH (Main terminal and mid-field) as a benchmark index of 1.0, I would give terminal five a rating of 0.5.
I have just booked my next middle eastern trip and have chosed Swiss and ZRH once again.
Morale of the story (and bearing in mind that the flight left on time and was a good product), BA needs to work with BAA to improve the service, why 50% of security lanes closed at 6pm on a Friday evening? Why was I messed around with the visa check, when I followed the instructions to the letter?
In short, T5 could be world class, but on my two most recent experiences, it is not satisfactory for people who pay a large premium and then do not get the service levels that this should provide.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Abu Dhabi
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No doubt your thread will be re-united with the "mother" T5 thread in the next few seconds.....but yes, say what you like about the rest of T5, but the security check layout and system is crap. Not blowing the "Zurich" trumpet or anything, but it would have lasted a month beofre being ripped out and re designed by the Swiss. This is also considering the face that on more than one occasion I have seen observers in the T5 security area doing studies (maybe time and motion) on what is actually happening there. I have seen 2 laptops going to ground because of the automatic tray system.....the very least they could do is put a ledge at the pick-up point so you can re-pack your bag....etc.....ad nauseum....
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: West Wales and Zug, Switzerland
Age: 63
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just for intrest how many flights use ZRH compared with T5?
I agree that the security lines are too long, but its the same at Gatwick and most other major UK airports. I have also found most major US airports have long lines. Its not helped by people failing to read the instructions before reaching the front of the line.
As for the distance and time to B, and also C in the future, the design of the terminal was restricted by the 2 runways and also the M25. So it is as it is. I found T4 and T3 worse. If before going in the longe you had looked at the flight boards they clearly state the time to each gate.
I agree the whole thing could be better but all the time people expect to fly cheaply, and terrorism is still a threat, it will not get any better.
I agree that the security lines are too long, but its the same at Gatwick and most other major UK airports. I have also found most major US airports have long lines. Its not helped by people failing to read the instructions before reaching the front of the line.
As for the distance and time to B, and also C in the future, the design of the terminal was restricted by the 2 runways and also the M25. So it is as it is. I found T4 and T3 worse. If before going in the longe you had looked at the flight boards they clearly state the time to each gate.
I agree the whole thing could be better but all the time people expect to fly cheaply, and terrorism is still a threat, it will not get any better.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jarvy - guess the difference is that some airports learn and make changes. Even Dulles, possibly one of the worst I have experienced, actually now has a decent system in place for both arriving and departing pax.
T5 security has never worked well IMHO and the 'fastrack' system is more often than not anything but fast. Security personnel working there are clear that BA and not BAA decides the set up and how fastrack will operate ie; one queue or two. The lack of space does not help, of course, with security checking area pushed into a long thin layout which is far from ideal. Options for change would appear rather limited.
T5 security has never worked well IMHO and the 'fastrack' system is more often than not anything but fast. Security personnel working there are clear that BA and not BAA decides the set up and how fastrack will operate ie; one queue or two. The lack of space does not help, of course, with security checking area pushed into a long thin layout which is far from ideal. Options for change would appear rather limited.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 32°55'22"S 151°46'56"E
Age: 39
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Jarvy,
I don't buy the excuse of delays caused by 'people not reading'. This is normal, this is what is expected and for the people who don't travel frequently or don't use European/US airports on a regular basis then it's something that should be taken into account. A properly manned airport is equipped to deal with this situation. Find a way to make people listen.
I don't buy the excuse of delays caused by 'people not reading'. This is normal, this is what is expected and for the people who don't travel frequently or don't use European/US airports on a regular basis then it's something that should be taken into account. A properly manned airport is equipped to deal with this situation. Find a way to make people listen.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Jarvy
With respect
this is the wrong question.
As someone who been involved in airport systems planning in the past, the right question is
In regard to your comment that
I not only read the instructions online, but also at the airport.
The instructions were clearly not comprehensive enough and this is not acceptable when you have paid several thousands of euros for the ticket; this is BA's accountability. Had I arrived tight for time (as is often the case), this could have put me in danger of missing the flight.
So how does this justify providing a poor customer experience? Also, Cairo terminal 2 makes Terminal 5 look really good, but so what?
Please explain how the M25 was a constraint to designing T5? I've go to hear that one - perhaps the juxtaposition of Venus to Mars also played a part?
I did, how do you think I knew to get across? Then again, I take about 100 flights per year on average and am pretty good at using airport terminals, even poorly designed ones.
At other airports, the FIDS manages a 'go to gate' alert, why not for the satellites at T5? More pertinently, why is it not possble to know the gate at -3 hours? Unstable stand planning seems a likey culprit, which is unbelievable in a purpose built new terminal. They can allocate stands at -24 in AMS.
But I don't fly cheaply, do I? The airline is very happy to charge me thousands of euros for a 'premium' experience, but fails to realise that this includes the ground experience.
Also, this is not an old terminal or a terminal built to a tight budget - it cost a fortune.
The sad fact is that there are aspects of it that could be fixed, I agree with Dubh1200's comment about the tolerance level in Switzerland for inefficient things), but rubbish is provided in the UK as if it was good - there is no excuse for having 50% of the security lines closed at 6pm on Friday.
Having said my piece, I shall continue to vote with my feet; this month I shall travel to the middle east and back in business class three times, once with BA and twice with Star*.
I could easily use BA for all these flights and would seriously consider doing so if their end to end offer was competitive - it is for price, but not for service.
Given BA's financial results, it is astonishing the company allows this state of affairs to persist when one can demonstrate the impact on sales.
With respect
Just for intrest how many flights use ZRH compared with T5?
As someone who been involved in airport systems planning in the past, the right question is
how many flights was the terminal designed for?
Its not helped by people failing to read the instructions before reaching the front of the line
The instructions were clearly not comprehensive enough and this is not acceptable when you have paid several thousands of euros for the ticket; this is BA's accountability. Had I arrived tight for time (as is often the case), this could have put me in danger of missing the flight.
As for the distance and time to B, and also C in the future, the design of the terminal was restricted by the 2 runways and also the M25. So it is as it is. I found T4 and T3 worse.
Please explain how the M25 was a constraint to designing T5? I've go to hear that one - perhaps the juxtaposition of Venus to Mars also played a part?
If before going in the longe you had looked at the flight boards they clearly state the time to each gate.
At other airports, the FIDS manages a 'go to gate' alert, why not for the satellites at T5? More pertinently, why is it not possble to know the gate at -3 hours? Unstable stand planning seems a likey culprit, which is unbelievable in a purpose built new terminal. They can allocate stands at -24 in AMS.
I agree the whole thing could be better but all the time people expect to fly cheaply, and terrorism is still a threat, it will not get any better.
Also, this is not an old terminal or a terminal built to a tight budget - it cost a fortune.
The sad fact is that there are aspects of it that could be fixed, I agree with Dubh1200's comment about the tolerance level in Switzerland for inefficient things), but rubbish is provided in the UK as if it was good - there is no excuse for having 50% of the security lines closed at 6pm on Friday.
Having said my piece, I shall continue to vote with my feet; this month I shall travel to the middle east and back in business class three times, once with BA and twice with Star*.
I could easily use BA for all these flights and would seriously consider doing so if their end to end offer was competitive - it is for price, but not for service.
Given BA's financial results, it is astonishing the company allows this state of affairs to persist when one can demonstrate the impact on sales.
Last edited by Final 3 Greens; 25th Oct 2009 at 04:39.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: West Wales and Zug, Switzerland
Age: 63
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do think that the number of flights is the right question.
I still think that there are alot of people, not you, who not only fail to read the instructions for security but then complain when asked to comply!!! So using up more staff on enforcement rather than on the actual checks.
The M25 was a reason that the terminal couldn't go further westward, the runways limit the north and south dimensions so it can only go eastward. I understand but I am sure someone could have designed it better.
The airport is designed for the majority who do sit at the back and do want to fly cheaply. They all think they are special as well.
We can all see faults with things thats the easy part but changing things is alot harder.
Whilst not an excuse rember that T5 was designed pre 911 when security was not such a big issue.
Finally as you have all said you can all vote with your pounds, euros and dollars.I will continue to use both T5 and BA, and yes I do have a choice.
I still think that there are alot of people, not you, who not only fail to read the instructions for security but then complain when asked to comply!!! So using up more staff on enforcement rather than on the actual checks.
The M25 was a reason that the terminal couldn't go further westward, the runways limit the north and south dimensions so it can only go eastward. I understand but I am sure someone could have designed it better.
The airport is designed for the majority who do sit at the back and do want to fly cheaply. They all think they are special as well.
We can all see faults with things thats the easy part but changing things is alot harder.
Whilst not an excuse rember that T5 was designed pre 911 when security was not such a big issue.
Finally as you have all said you can all vote with your pounds, euros and dollars.I will continue to use both T5 and BA, and yes I do have a choice.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Jarvy
Sorry, but your facts are wrong.
The M25 was not the constraint, the original design fitted within the space, but the public enquiry decided not to use 'green belt' (non developed) land, that was the constraint.
I know very well when T5 was designed, but I would like to inform you that the internal layout was not finalised at the time of 9/11; how do I know? I was asked, as a consultant, to lead a team of people to look at some 'over the horizon' technology to decide options for check in and some other areas.
Then 9/11 happened and that approach was changed to a regular type of terminal, reflecting the post incident reality.
I am glad it works for you; for me, it is mediocre.
Sorry, but your facts are wrong.
The M25 was not the constraint, the original design fitted within the space, but the public enquiry decided not to use 'green belt' (non developed) land, that was the constraint.
I know very well when T5 was designed, but I would like to inform you that the internal layout was not finalised at the time of 9/11; how do I know? I was asked, as a consultant, to lead a team of people to look at some 'over the horizon' technology to decide options for check in and some other areas.
Then 9/11 happened and that approach was changed to a regular type of terminal, reflecting the post incident reality.
I am glad it works for you; for me, it is mediocre.
I rarely if even use any London Airport (living in Manchester), but having transitted via T4 at LHR, the most stupid part of the design of the whole airport is the easiest thing to change - the security screening. Having arrived on a plane from TLV (supposedly the world's safest airport) why do I need to wait in line for an hour to change planes to fly to MAN?
I usually use FRA or ZRH, and their terminals are cleaner, easier to navigate and even with the split terminal design of ZRH, spending four hours there with young children was no trouble.
I usually use FRA or ZRH, and their terminals are cleaner, easier to navigate and even with the split terminal design of ZRH, spending four hours there with young children was no trouble.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just for those of you who are interested....
BA have emailed all staff who frequently pass through the terminal as passengers to send in their reports to a special email address so that BA can study what is going wrong with security! The airline is aware that this is the biggest problem at T5 right now and is doing its best to sort it out! But me thinks right now it should be a little more concerned about its imminent battle with the unions! LOL!
BA have emailed all staff who frequently pass through the terminal as passengers to send in their reports to a special email address so that BA can study what is going wrong with security! The airline is aware that this is the biggest problem at T5 right now and is doing its best to sort it out! But me thinks right now it should be a little more concerned about its imminent battle with the unions! LOL!
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: West Wales and Zug, Switzerland
Age: 63
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I'm wrong, which I often am, then I am sorry. It's what I was told by someone who worked on the construction.
As they say over here, opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one.
With that I will take my leave and return to rotorheads where I came from.
As they say over here, opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one.
With that I will take my leave and return to rotorheads where I came from.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Jarvy
For the size constraints, see para #1.
Design
Re the internal design, see the last para in the first section of this
AEC Magazine - Heathrow Terminal 5:
There is no need to say sorry, I was only giving your some information and I hope that it is interesting for you; I know a little more than most about some aspects of T5, which is perhaps partly why it disappoints me, as it could have been world class and the failings are by and large a series of small things.
Also, some of these things probably only effect premium travellers, so I suppose if I was flying economy I might find the place a better experience, if that makes any sense.
One thing I do like about T5 is the selection of restaurants and in particular Giraffe, which feels like a restaurant in a big shopping centre (i.e. better than the usual airport experience.)
For the size constraints, see para #1.
Design
Re the internal design, see the last para in the first section of this
AEC Magazine - Heathrow Terminal 5:
There is no need to say sorry, I was only giving your some information and I hope that it is interesting for you; I know a little more than most about some aspects of T5, which is perhaps partly why it disappoints me, as it could have been world class and the failings are by and large a series of small things.
Also, some of these things probably only effect premium travellers, so I suppose if I was flying economy I might find the place a better experience, if that makes any sense.
One thing I do like about T5 is the selection of restaurants and in particular Giraffe, which feels like a restaurant in a big shopping centre (i.e. better than the usual airport experience.)
BA have emailed all staff who frequently pass through the terminal as passengers to send in their reports to a special email address so that BA can study what is going wrong with security! The airline is aware that this is the biggest problem at T5 right now and is doing its best to sort it out!
If there is nobody of such a calibre on the staff (and I am well aware that at Waterside "Well Paid" and "Knowledgeable" can rarely be applied to the same person) I will be very happy to come over and do the job for them. I won't even charge a fee !
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: South of France
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA have emailed all staff who frequently pass through the terminal as passengers to send in their reports to a special email address
BAA "lies, damn lies and statistics"
BA do need more, direct facts and stories from staff using T5.
One of their problems is that BAA do a lot of measurement, and BAA's measurements tell BAA what a wonderful job they are doing.
They use these3 stats in their meetings with BA, who need data to respond.
For instance, on Security queuing....................(you couldn't make it up").............
BAA do not measure the queues that you and I experience. Rather, they produce a composite queuing time taken over the whole day - right in to the night, when there are no queues. Surprisingly, when they do the averaging, queues that last for hours for you and I come down to 10 minutes.
Help BA to get data to stop this stupidity.
One of their problems is that BAA do a lot of measurement, and BAA's measurements tell BAA what a wonderful job they are doing.
They use these3 stats in their meetings with BA, who need data to respond.
For instance, on Security queuing....................(you couldn't make it up").............
BAA do not measure the queues that you and I experience. Rather, they produce a composite queuing time taken over the whole day - right in to the night, when there are no queues. Surprisingly, when they do the averaging, queues that last for hours for you and I come down to 10 minutes.
Help BA to get data to stop this stupidity.