Novel PA announcements as to why your flight was late departing
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As we told the passengers last night before our night Zakynthos flight:
"Ladies and Gentleman, the 20 minute delay in our departure tonight is due to waiting for the turtles to finish their business on the beach next to the airport....." or words to that effect.
Zakynthos closes at night, opened this morning at 3 Zulu due to the turtles needing their breeding time. If we had departed on time, we would have arrived 20 minutes early - and whilst they apparently will let you land without question, they will then fine the airline heavily
"Ladies and Gentleman, the 20 minute delay in our departure tonight is due to waiting for the turtles to finish their business on the beach next to the airport....." or words to that effect.
Zakynthos closes at night, opened this morning at 3 Zulu due to the turtles needing their breeding time. If we had departed on time, we would have arrived 20 minutes early - and whilst they apparently will let you land without question, they will then fine the airline heavily
An increasing problem across the transport world as standardised computing, yes, just plain Windows, gets put into more and more on-board areas (although not in the critical flight-control systems on the Airbus and similar, who very much do their own thing). Had a similar delay on a train which was stopped for 10 minutes to do this. The old retired train driver in the coach said to the conductor "this never happened in the days of steam locomotives .....".
Paxing All Over The World
It happened on a bus.
BCN, taking the airport bus into the city one Friday evening for a long weekend. At a particular stop - the driver closed the double doors in the middle of the bus and they immediately re-opened. He closed them. They opened themselves. This went on for some minutes but he could not move, because the doors were open.
My lady said quietly, "Boot the bus". Eventually he did. Shut down the engine and all electrics off. Wait 20 seconds. Switch on electrics and start engine. Doors close and off we go.
It was almost certainly not windows (Windows? In a bus? Geddit? Oh, well please yourself) but was still a computer ...
BCN, taking the airport bus into the city one Friday evening for a long weekend. At a particular stop - the driver closed the double doors in the middle of the bus and they immediately re-opened. He closed them. They opened themselves. This went on for some minutes but he could not move, because the doors were open.
My lady said quietly, "Boot the bus". Eventually he did. Shut down the engine and all electrics off. Wait 20 seconds. Switch on electrics and start engine. Doors close and off we go.
It was almost certainly not windows (Windows? In a bus? Geddit? Oh, well please yourself) but was still a computer ...
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It happened on a train.
Class 365 Cambridge/London, and we were clearly (to me) not achieving the performance we should have been. After a couple of stations the driver announces that the train can only achieve 50mph and he thinks restarting it will help, and this will take a few minutes.
Everything went quiet, then started up again, the display panel ran a lot of self-tests, and about 5 minutes later we started off. This time we achieved the usual performance of up to 100mph (depending on the track) and so were only slightly delayed instead of very delayed.
I'm not sure rebooting the train is in the normal drivers' repertoire of fixes, and in any case I wished to compliment the driver on his efforts, but he was deep in conversation on his phone with what sounded like train-maintrol, so I left him to it.
Class 365 Cambridge/London, and we were clearly (to me) not achieving the performance we should have been. After a couple of stations the driver announces that the train can only achieve 50mph and he thinks restarting it will help, and this will take a few minutes.
Everything went quiet, then started up again, the display panel ran a lot of self-tests, and about 5 minutes later we started off. This time we achieved the usual performance of up to 100mph (depending on the track) and so were only slightly delayed instead of very delayed.
I'm not sure rebooting the train is in the normal drivers' repertoire of fixes, and in any case I wished to compliment the driver on his efforts, but he was deep in conversation on his phone with what sounded like train-maintrol, so I left him to it.
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Late because of late arriving
I’ve enjoyed the comical tone of this thread thank you for the entertainment. As to being told useless information about being late because the arriving jet was late; here is some more information for you to sift through.
Let’s say you and I show up at the departure gate for the flight. You are the paying passenger and I am one of the pilots. Our jet is an hour late. For me to find out why the jet is an hour late I have to pick up the phone and start making calls. The answer may be as simple as they had to fix a flat tire at the last airport, or it could be much more complex. For example it could be the delay started fourteen hours, three time zones and two working shifts ago. To trace the reason for the delay down the person I am talking to will have to spend an inordinate amount of time hunting down the past. And answer my question they must putt aside their own pressing current work load.
When I make such requests I expend valuable personal “capital”. My coworker has to respect me enough to be willing to extend their limited energy and time to hunt down the now distant reason for the delay. If I repeatedly make these kinds of requests/demands I will rapidly gain the reputation of being a real pain in the neck to work with. As such, I can expect much less cooperation with my future requests. Much of the time the work environment is extremely busy and people are tasked with completing demanding and sometimes complex tasks.
You and your travel experience are important. Delays are bad for you and bad for us. However, there are times when finding out the exact cause of the flight delay is more trouble than it is worth (to me); especially since there is nothing you or I can do about the already late arriving jet. I cannot change the circumstances. By doggedly pursuing the underlying cause of the delay I can add a tremendous amount of work to a coworker who is already task saturated.
If the jet is late I will probably ask my dispatcher why we are late. If the dispatcher doesn’t know they will offer to transfer my call to maintenance control. At this point in the conversation I need to make a decision. Is the time spent on hold and/or waiting for a call back worth the possible added delay and increased work load on others. Usually it is not, and takes away from what I should be doing to get my current flight out without incurring any added delay.
Respectfully
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Can you not just ask the inbound crew, or is it now deemed such a security risk that you aren't allowed near them? Many years ago when I was turning aircraft round the outbound crew would normally be waiting in the gate for the aircraft to arrive if it was running late, so they could achieve a quick turnround.
Most sensible passengers (are there many of us left?) would accept that a detailed investigation to get a relatively trivial piece of information is over the top, but it's a nice-to-have if it's readily available. Except maybe if the delay is due to the engineer doing a Heath Robinson repair with a mile of gaffer tape
Most sensible passengers (are there many of us left?) would accept that a detailed investigation to get a relatively trivial piece of information is over the top, but it's a nice-to-have if it's readily available. Except maybe if the delay is due to the engineer doing a Heath Robinson repair with a mile of gaffer tape
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Curious Pax,
We don't always get a chance to talk to the crew...
A lot of the time I find that passengers don't believe what they're told anyways. Years ago, we diverted due to the airport we were going to (XXX) being fog bound. We sat at alternative airport for quite some time due to many aircraft diverting to the same airport. We told the passengers exactly what was going on, but plenty of them told us there was no fog at XXX (!). It does make me chuckle when passengers think we delay them just for the hell of it, as if we don't have anything better to do...
Plenty of times, I've had passengers ask me for the "real" reason for the delay when we've already announced the reason.
Gg
We don't always get a chance to talk to the crew...
A lot of the time I find that passengers don't believe what they're told anyways. Years ago, we diverted due to the airport we were going to (XXX) being fog bound. We sat at alternative airport for quite some time due to many aircraft diverting to the same airport. We told the passengers exactly what was going on, but plenty of them told us there was no fog at XXX (!). It does make me chuckle when passengers think we delay them just for the hell of it, as if we don't have anything better to do...
Plenty of times, I've had passengers ask me for the "real" reason for the delay when we've already announced the reason.
Gg
Gg.
In some airlines, that use the place to which some planes are diverted to for special reasons, those airlines have been known to use fog as the excuse for them being somewhere else.
I realise that Big airline doesn't use that place, so you might not have come across it.
In some airlines, that use the place to which some planes are diverted to for special reasons, those airlines have been known to use fog as the excuse for them being somewhere else.
I realise that Big airline doesn't use that place, so you might not have come across it.
Paxing All Over The World
Northbeach THANK YOU. A wonderful example of PPRuNe at it's best. Thanks for taking the time to explain why you often cannot take the time to explain!!
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Northbeach
I think that what many people are trying to say is that if handling staff and/or aircrew have no better information to offer than "the delay is due to the late arrival of the incoming aircraft" (ie delayed because it's delayed), they should say either nothing or something like "We don't know the reason for the delay".
"...delay is due to late arrival of incoming aircraft" is an insult to passengers' intelligence; that's what winds people up so much.
I think that what many people are trying to say is that if handling staff and/or aircrew have no better information to offer than "the delay is due to the late arrival of the incoming aircraft" (ie delayed because it's delayed), they should say either nothing or something like "We don't know the reason for the delay".
"...delay is due to late arrival of incoming aircraft" is an insult to passengers' intelligence; that's what winds people up so much.
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You guys...
"Late due to late arrival of inbound aircraft". I think that you're being a bit precious if you consider that to be
How is that insulting? I consider myself to be a pretty smart bloke, and when I get that (when I'm an SLF) I accept it as a valid reason. The only emotion I'll feel is if the lateness affects what I'm doing at my destination.
Was the inbound aircraft late?
If YES, then "Late due to late arrival of inbound aircraft" seems perfectly appropriate. If we say otherwise we'd be lying to you.
Or would you prefer that?
Say nothing? Not an option. People don't like to be kept in the dark, so if we know the reason we tell them.
In all my airline career (only a couple of years, I'll admit) I've NEVER had a passenger complain about the "Late due to late arrival of inbound aircraft". While we get plenty who complain about not being told of any reason for the delay.
And in Australia you'd better not try the "It's late but we don't know why", unless you really want passengers (who up until then didn't care much) coming up to the service desk and asking "Why don't you know?" And I'm guessing in the UK you'd get a similar reaction.
You want to know why the INBOUND aircraft is late? IME, no passenger asks that question either. Certainly no-one has ever asked me that apart from other flight or cabin crew.
IME, there are many reasons for why the inbound aircraft was late. They can include:
1) Aircraft slowed down to fit into a traffic pattern.
2) In-flight diversion due weather, which can then lead to (1), due to new slot time.
3) Lack of air traffic controllers, which can lead to (1), as the traffic pattern is streamlined.
4) Weather or maintenance at your airport reducing the number of available runways, resulting in (1) due to streamlining of the traffic pattern.
5) Weather at the remote airport (fog, thunderstorms, dust, squalls) delaying departure (or arrival) of that aircraft.
6) An aircraft technical problem.
7) Crew flight and duty issues, or crew late to board (plenty of valid reasons for that, also).
I'm sure that there are others; these have all happened on flights that I've operated.
FURTHER, the delay may not have happened on the inbound flight. In my airline, it could have happened to any one of SEVEN flights previously in a given day (or even the last flight of the day before). This is due to minimum turn-around times (20 minutes at outports; 30 minutes at hubs).
No airline will EVER make an announcement like:
"Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome aboard our 7:00 pm flight to xxx. We apologise for the delay, but this was caused by a delay to the flight last night, which required that the crew who flew the first flight of the day to be 15 minutes late to work due to flight and duty considerations. Because we don't operate with a backup crew, we couldn't avoid the 15 minute delay. Because we have minimum turnaround times at all of our airports, we've not been able to make up the 15 minutes in the 7 sectors today that the aircraft has flown. So are 15 minutes late now, etc"
So we say "Late due to late arrival of inbound aircraft". It's NOT a lie, and doesn't burden the passengers with a lot of stuff that most of them either wouldn't understand or care about.
Cheers,
DIVOSH!
an insult to passengers' intelligence
Was the inbound aircraft late?
If YES, then "Late due to late arrival of inbound aircraft" seems perfectly appropriate. If we say otherwise we'd be lying to you.
Or would you prefer that?
Say nothing? Not an option. People don't like to be kept in the dark, so if we know the reason we tell them.
In all my airline career (only a couple of years, I'll admit) I've NEVER had a passenger complain about the "Late due to late arrival of inbound aircraft". While we get plenty who complain about not being told of any reason for the delay.
And in Australia you'd better not try the "It's late but we don't know why", unless you really want passengers (who up until then didn't care much) coming up to the service desk and asking "Why don't you know?" And I'm guessing in the UK you'd get a similar reaction.
You want to know why the INBOUND aircraft is late? IME, no passenger asks that question either. Certainly no-one has ever asked me that apart from other flight or cabin crew.
IME, there are many reasons for why the inbound aircraft was late. They can include:
1) Aircraft slowed down to fit into a traffic pattern.
2) In-flight diversion due weather, which can then lead to (1), due to new slot time.
3) Lack of air traffic controllers, which can lead to (1), as the traffic pattern is streamlined.
4) Weather or maintenance at your airport reducing the number of available runways, resulting in (1) due to streamlining of the traffic pattern.
5) Weather at the remote airport (fog, thunderstorms, dust, squalls) delaying departure (or arrival) of that aircraft.
6) An aircraft technical problem.
7) Crew flight and duty issues, or crew late to board (plenty of valid reasons for that, also).
I'm sure that there are others; these have all happened on flights that I've operated.
FURTHER, the delay may not have happened on the inbound flight. In my airline, it could have happened to any one of SEVEN flights previously in a given day (or even the last flight of the day before). This is due to minimum turn-around times (20 minutes at outports; 30 minutes at hubs).
No airline will EVER make an announcement like:
"Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome aboard our 7:00 pm flight to xxx. We apologise for the delay, but this was caused by a delay to the flight last night, which required that the crew who flew the first flight of the day to be 15 minutes late to work due to flight and duty considerations. Because we don't operate with a backup crew, we couldn't avoid the 15 minute delay. Because we have minimum turnaround times at all of our airports, we've not been able to make up the 15 minutes in the 7 sectors today that the aircraft has flown. So are 15 minutes late now, etc"
So we say "Late due to late arrival of inbound aircraft". It's NOT a lie, and doesn't burden the passengers with a lot of stuff that most of them either wouldn't understand or care about.
Cheers,
DIVOSH!
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"Late due to late arrival of inbound aircraft"
- The plane has not gone tech.
- The plane assigned for my particular sector was late arriving and another is not available.
- No pertinent information is available as to why the inbound flight was delayed.
The strangest announcement I had was when our departure from ST Lucia was delayed.....
"We are going to be a delayed a few minutes as the handler has loaded our cargo of bananas into the wrong hold and they would freeze if we do not move them"
The one you don't often hear is the one that appeared at Kings Cross in the early 1960s. Gerald Fiennes, the Eastern Region General Manager was irritated by a series of delays to a train, and wrote down the announcement. The lady refused to read it out, so Fiennes did it himself:
"British Railways wish to deeply apologise to passengers for the delay in the arrival of the train from Doncaster. This was caused by management incompetence."
Now there's honesty for you!
"British Railways wish to deeply apologise to passengers for the delay in the arrival of the train from Doncaster. This was caused by management incompetence."
Now there's honesty for you!
FX Guru
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Many years ago the train I used to catch into London Bridge each morning (0618 Norwood Junction to London bridge IIRC) had a wannabe pilot as a driver.
The Tannoy would come on. "Ladies and Gentlemen, we are presently at about six feet above ground level and are on our final approach to London Bridge. The weather is sunny with a bitter north wind," and so on. He would then add something along the lines of, "Weren't England awful last night? My granny could tackle better than that lot."
Everyone would get off the train with a smile. Naturally when the authorities heard of a driver with a human touch that 'customers' liked and appreciated, he was transferred to freight....
The Tannoy would come on. "Ladies and Gentlemen, we are presently at about six feet above ground level and are on our final approach to London Bridge. The weather is sunny with a bitter north wind," and so on. He would then add something along the lines of, "Weren't England awful last night? My granny could tackle better than that lot."
Everyone would get off the train with a smile. Naturally when the authorities heard of a driver with a human touch that 'customers' liked and appreciated, he was transferred to freight....
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Not exactly an excuse, but it made me smile all the same,
"Apologies ladies and gentlemen, just waiting for preceding aircraft to depart, one of the disadvantages to us being early, is that we wait at the runway rather than in the nice warm terminal, but what the hell, sit back relax, and I'll leave you with this thought...
What exactly are the other uses for multi-purpose compost?"
RTG!
"Apologies ladies and gentlemen, just waiting for preceding aircraft to depart, one of the disadvantages to us being early, is that we wait at the runway rather than in the nice warm terminal, but what the hell, sit back relax, and I'll leave you with this thought...
What exactly are the other uses for multi-purpose compost?"
RTG!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I once made a PA on a QFlink Dash 8 about apologising for a delay.
I did say that I did not know why it had been delayed as I'd had been on a day off and just got called in.
5 min later, the FA told me that a passenger was on the inbound flight and knew why it was late.
I then told the rest of the pax.
Every one was happy. People like the truth.
I did say that I did not know why it had been delayed as I'd had been on a day off and just got called in.
5 min later, the FA told me that a passenger was on the inbound flight and knew why it was late.
I then told the rest of the pax.Every one was happy. People like the truth.