Virulens Heathrowitis - from the Irish Independent today
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Maybe they treat their workers better.
Maybe the pax arent such scum.
Maybe life in general is better leading to happier people overall.
Maybe they dont pay peanuts and so dont get monkeys.
Maybe the bosses dont have so much power to mistreat their workforce.
Maybe you are imagining things and they arent so different.
Maybe the rest of western Europe isnt so focused on cash and efficiency.
Maybe they arent given the power to lord over everyone else.
Maybe they arent as stupid and anal as us in making and enforcing stupid rules.
I could go on endlessly but Im sure there are a few in there that would apply.
Someone should do a study.
Maybe the pax arent such scum.
Maybe life in general is better leading to happier people overall.
Maybe they dont pay peanuts and so dont get monkeys.
Maybe the bosses dont have so much power to mistreat their workforce.
Maybe you are imagining things and they arent so different.
Maybe the rest of western Europe isnt so focused on cash and efficiency.
Maybe they arent given the power to lord over everyone else.
Maybe they arent as stupid and anal as us in making and enforcing stupid rules.
I could go on endlessly but Im sure there are a few in there that would apply.
Someone should do a study.
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Has anyone considered what it is like to be employed in one of these positions?
Do people choose such vocations by choice
But anyway, these people are not the problem. The problem are those who came up with all this non-sense, those who support them, those who believe them, and those who don't give a crap about it.
[*] Anyone attemping to suggest that the current x-raying process is any use whatsoever goes straight in my ignore list.
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Great theory.......... except that the other major countries in western Europe have security staff who are professional and courteous.
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If I had a job which did not pay particularly well, which appeared to offend everyone who comes into contact with me and if I got wrong, could cause a tragedy for which I would probably be blamed, I might have the odd "off-day" as well.
I have made mention previously of the high standard at Narita and would be delighted if this could be copied elsewhere but it won't be because you can't change culture so easily. Despite the problems, overall I think the UK security people do a good job especially when compared to the TSA standard.
I came through T5 earlier this week and I was most impressed by the patience and helpful manner that the scanner team displayed.
I have made mention previously of the high standard at Narita and would be delighted if this could be copied elsewhere but it won't be because you can't change culture so easily. Despite the problems, overall I think the UK security people do a good job especially when compared to the TSA standard.
I came through T5 earlier this week and I was most impressed by the patience and helpful manner that the scanner team displayed.
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Without the slightest bit of exaggeration, or embellishment:
I travelled from SYD via several US destinations to arrive in LHR with a full sized deodorant can in my carryon. Not one of the many xray checks deemed it to be a binary component or anything similar. On departure from LHR, the xrayer asked me to produce the can, which by this time I had forgotten was there. She said "this is over the size limit" I will have to take this. Now, I had plenty of time, and felt like working out her rationale behind the seizure - not to be an arse, just for understanding. I asked that didn't the rule govern liquids? The can certainly contained a liquid, but produces a powder & gas mixture once the container is opened, and I demonstrated this fact to her, remembering I forgot to use it that morning. No, it is a liquid, so I have to confiscate it. I relent, as I wasn't going to provoke the authorities into heightened mode....
Not such a big deal, but I wonder how much thought went into the reactionary "standards" that we comply to these days???
Anyway, I dread LHR every time. Combine it with being forced by the business to fly BA makes the experience a very sobering, frustrating experience!!!
I travelled from SYD via several US destinations to arrive in LHR with a full sized deodorant can in my carryon. Not one of the many xray checks deemed it to be a binary component or anything similar. On departure from LHR, the xrayer asked me to produce the can, which by this time I had forgotten was there. She said "this is over the size limit" I will have to take this. Now, I had plenty of time, and felt like working out her rationale behind the seizure - not to be an arse, just for understanding. I asked that didn't the rule govern liquids? The can certainly contained a liquid, but produces a powder & gas mixture once the container is opened, and I demonstrated this fact to her, remembering I forgot to use it that morning. No, it is a liquid, so I have to confiscate it. I relent, as I wasn't going to provoke the authorities into heightened mode....
Not such a big deal, but I wonder how much thought went into the reactionary "standards" that we comply to these days???
Anyway, I dread LHR every time. Combine it with being forced by the business to fly BA makes the experience a very sobering, frustrating experience!!!
Sorry Strake, but I'll take the TSA service at EWR, IAH or JFK over any UK airport. I can also only compare the queueing to be re-screened whilst still airside at T5 before being admitted to the shopping mall, sorry departure lounge, from my connecting flight to that of animals penned and corralled at a slaughterhouse waiting to be stunned before slaughter.
Our security and immigration services could learn a lot from the TSA. The wider, more open, airy and well lit areas in US airports help to introduce a calm to fatigued and fractious passengers whereas the tightly coralled areas with passengers shuffling back and forth past each other in thight confines only helps to irritate tired and confused passengers, couple that with the archtect's favourite "subdued lighting", i.e. dark and gloomy and paint colours from the 1970's NHS psychiatric pallette just completes the depressive mood for incoming travellers.
Then again, if we were to have this, it would mean BAA giving up some of its retail space to better serve their customers and we all know that this is not likely to happen as BAA have never demonstrated greater love for their customers than for their customers money.
Our security and immigration services could learn a lot from the TSA. The wider, more open, airy and well lit areas in US airports help to introduce a calm to fatigued and fractious passengers whereas the tightly coralled areas with passengers shuffling back and forth past each other in thight confines only helps to irritate tired and confused passengers, couple that with the archtect's favourite "subdued lighting", i.e. dark and gloomy and paint colours from the 1970's NHS psychiatric pallette just completes the depressive mood for incoming travellers.
Then again, if we were to have this, it would mean BAA giving up some of its retail space to better serve their customers and we all know that this is not likely to happen as BAA have never demonstrated greater love for their customers than for their customers money.
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jackcat
Not a sweeping statement, one based on 31 years of empirical observation, typically 100 times per year.
As fo CDG, I have never encountered a similar attitude to the BAA airports in security, in fact I passed through there yesterday evening and the the two ladies on the scanner were charming and we shared a couple of jokes 'have you any money in your pockets sir?', 'no, my wife has all the money', 'with very good reason, sir.'
By the way jackcat, do you give the French scanners the courtesy of speaking to them in their own language?
I do and they can express themselves properly - although they will do their best in English they may not have fluency and thus appear less responsive.
I speak English at London and find there is little excuse for the boorish or generally uncaring behaviour that often prevails. One does sometimes encounter a decent individual, which always comes as a surprise.
Rather a sweeping statement....and not my experience at CDG, who IMHO are guilty of exactly the same misdemeanours you attribute to UK personnel
As fo CDG, I have never encountered a similar attitude to the BAA airports in security, in fact I passed through there yesterday evening and the the two ladies on the scanner were charming and we shared a couple of jokes 'have you any money in your pockets sir?', 'no, my wife has all the money', 'with very good reason, sir.'
By the way jackcat, do you give the French scanners the courtesy of speaking to them in their own language?
I do and they can express themselves properly - although they will do their best in English they may not have fluency and thus appear less responsive.
I speak English at London and find there is little excuse for the boorish or generally uncaring behaviour that often prevails. One does sometimes encounter a decent individual, which always comes as a surprise.
I was at LHR yesterday dropping daughter off for a trip, hadn't been there for a while.
Yes T5 has helped remove the crush but the appalling service remains. Only one lift working for a whole massive car park to get to departures!!. Horrid crowded dark terminal check in area. Is T3 left to look like that in order to make the very very ordinary T5 look good? Rude airport staff many of whom look fotofits for al Qaeda suspects compare badly with cheerful East European girls selling you food and drink. The place no doubt run by grumpy sullen Spanish management who have frankly been completely cheated on their investment by BAA and UK Government. (UK owner BAA hideous monopoly fine, same monopoly owned by Spanish compulsory divestiture of major assets). Would any other major country allow foreign ownership of its capital city airport??
Very apt comments from mikk above which some up much about UK2009 and being in Australia he will know a lot about mindless bureaucracy as it is pretty much world class down there.
Has anyone ever tried the flight information phone line BAA run where before you can get any information you are forced to listen to about 90 seconds of legal disclaimers. What are these people on, could the person who insisted they include that on the tape really be a sane responsible human being. Would he or she like to go into his local shopping mall and ask somewhere excuse me where is Dixons only for them to produce a card disclaiming liability for anything that happens during the rest of his or her day !!!! Astonishing.
I was only there two hours and look what it did to my sanity, only good thing was got to see an A 380 land.
Yes T5 has helped remove the crush but the appalling service remains. Only one lift working for a whole massive car park to get to departures!!. Horrid crowded dark terminal check in area. Is T3 left to look like that in order to make the very very ordinary T5 look good? Rude airport staff many of whom look fotofits for al Qaeda suspects compare badly with cheerful East European girls selling you food and drink. The place no doubt run by grumpy sullen Spanish management who have frankly been completely cheated on their investment by BAA and UK Government. (UK owner BAA hideous monopoly fine, same monopoly owned by Spanish compulsory divestiture of major assets). Would any other major country allow foreign ownership of its capital city airport??
Very apt comments from mikk above which some up much about UK2009 and being in Australia he will know a lot about mindless bureaucracy as it is pretty much world class down there.
Has anyone ever tried the flight information phone line BAA run where before you can get any information you are forced to listen to about 90 seconds of legal disclaimers. What are these people on, could the person who insisted they include that on the tape really be a sane responsible human being. Would he or she like to go into his local shopping mall and ask somewhere excuse me where is Dixons only for them to produce a card disclaiming liability for anything that happens during the rest of his or her day !!!! Astonishing.
I was only there two hours and look what it did to my sanity, only good thing was got to see an A 380 land.
CH3CH2OH
I'll take the TSA service at EWR, IAH or JFK over any UK airport. I can also only compare the queueing to be re-screened whilst still airside at T5 before being admitted to the shopping mall, sorry departure lounge, from my connecting flight to that of animals penned and corralled at a slaughterhouse waiting to be stunned before slaughter.
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Airport security personnell aren't employed because they have an IQ of 160.
Are you sure that holds true in Israel?
Are you sure that holds true in Israel?
"Who are you meeting?"
"Ali bin Falaan" (Joe Soap)
"Why"
"To discuss comparative intelligence issues"
"When will you meet him?"
"Next week"
"When are you leaving?"
"Later this week"
"OK. Go."
"Thank you. Have a nice day".
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jackcat
An assumption is when you take something as a fact, whereas I asked you a question then made a statement about the English ability of the CDG scanners and why it may limit their response, if you spoke in English, which I did not assume, as I asked you.
If you are perfectly bilingual, then I am at a loss to explain why they are rude to you, as I am far from perfect in my French language skills and to date have always received a pleasant response.
An assumption is when you take something as a fact, whereas I asked you a question then made a statement about the English ability of the CDG scanners and why it may limit their response, if you spoke in English, which I did not assume, as I asked you.
If you are perfectly bilingual, then I am at a loss to explain why they are rude to you, as I am far from perfect in my French language skills and to date have always received a pleasant response.
Last edited by Final 3 Greens; 19th Jun 2009 at 07:13.
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Having just experienced T5 for the first time myself I have to agree with most of the nay sayers on here! It really is embarassing.
Early morning flight from YYZ with Mrs MAC and less than one year old MAC junior. Connecting flight to ABZ. Did not realise that we would go through FULL security again joining up with all the other flights that have arrived at 6am AND all the people who have just checked in. Chaos! To make matters worse Fastrack was at the other end of the security area which meant that people were having to push past 1000 other passengers....which lead to MAC junior being clobbered quite heavily whilst in his stroller. This lead to me and the wife yelling at the businessman responsible which lead to security singling me out which lead to another passenger leaping to my defence which lead to him being pulled out the line (he called security a waste of space...which I didn't think was a good idea at 7am!).
After a pointless argument we got to the x-ray machine where my son's medicines (all in the correct bottles and bags) and jars of baby food were all made to be opened there and then for me to taste in front of security (even though they had been fine with it in YYZ...as there were in the correct volumes). I pointed out to security that once the jars had been opened they had to be used within 2 hours and my connecting flight was not within that time frame. I was told of the security risk (and me pointing out that I am an air traffic controller with ID went down like a lead balloon)....and told I would have all the food and medicine confiscated if I did not taste them!.
Once we got through security we found the supervisor who was dressing down the guy who had defended us in line. When I told him that my son had been hit really hard in the arm due to the logistics of the security area he went really sheepish...and blamed BA. Apparently they want fastrack at the other end due to it being closer to their lounge.
Oh the joys! You get slagged on PRUNE for criticisizing the UK and Heathrow in particular..but come on...from my perspective it is embarrassment for a country that could and should do so much better! I have no problems in YYZ with security whatsover!
Early morning flight from YYZ with Mrs MAC and less than one year old MAC junior. Connecting flight to ABZ. Did not realise that we would go through FULL security again joining up with all the other flights that have arrived at 6am AND all the people who have just checked in. Chaos! To make matters worse Fastrack was at the other end of the security area which meant that people were having to push past 1000 other passengers....which lead to MAC junior being clobbered quite heavily whilst in his stroller. This lead to me and the wife yelling at the businessman responsible which lead to security singling me out which lead to another passenger leaping to my defence which lead to him being pulled out the line (he called security a waste of space...which I didn't think was a good idea at 7am!).
After a pointless argument we got to the x-ray machine where my son's medicines (all in the correct bottles and bags) and jars of baby food were all made to be opened there and then for me to taste in front of security (even though they had been fine with it in YYZ...as there were in the correct volumes). I pointed out to security that once the jars had been opened they had to be used within 2 hours and my connecting flight was not within that time frame. I was told of the security risk (and me pointing out that I am an air traffic controller with ID went down like a lead balloon)....and told I would have all the food and medicine confiscated if I did not taste them!.
Once we got through security we found the supervisor who was dressing down the guy who had defended us in line. When I told him that my son had been hit really hard in the arm due to the logistics of the security area he went really sheepish...and blamed BA. Apparently they want fastrack at the other end due to it being closer to their lounge.
Oh the joys! You get slagged on PRUNE for criticisizing the UK and Heathrow in particular..but come on...from my perspective it is embarrassment for a country that could and should do so much better! I have no problems in YYZ with security whatsover!
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Did not realise that we would go through FULL security again joining up with all the other flights that have arrived at 6am AND all the people who have just checked in.
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This doesn't surprise me at all. BA is in trouble but whatever it does to attract customers or give good service it always has the out of control UK security monster making sure its passengers are treated like cattle. These people have no interest in customer service at all. They take it for granted that there will always be a big queue of passengers to bark orders at. Let's hope all the passengers don't all go somewhere else. BA really ought to take control of this.
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Flight connections surely? Thought you didn't have to go landside?
You would have thought by now that BA would have forced the issue and made them redesign the whole area.....its a joke of the highest order.
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Skipness
I thought flight connections would be for arriving passengers aswell..but no we joined a line with guys who had just come from landside having just checked in. It made no sense to me either!
.
As I said when I quizzed the supervisor he blamed BA as they wanted fastrack at the far end in order for it to be closer to their lounge. So they share some of the blame for the layout nightmare of security. With all the space they have available in T5 it should not have been too hard to design a working security area...or does that take away from retail space?
Flight connections surely? Thought you didn't have to go landside?
BA really ought to take control of this
As I said when I quizzed the supervisor he blamed BA as they wanted fastrack at the far end in order for it to be closer to their lounge. So they share some of the blame for the layout nightmare of security. With all the space they have available in T5 it should not have been too hard to design a working security area...or does that take away from retail space?
Too mean to buy a long personal title
I don't see why this makes no sense. As you've arrived from overseas, you have to undergo the same security screening as anyone who's just starting their journey - so why shouldn't you be in the same security screening area?