Air Canada 777
PJ2,
I agree with you completely about the announcements. Personally, when the seat belt sign is on, I stay in my seat (with my belt fastened, of course). But my aching bladder's a lot easier to put up with when I know the sign's lit for a reason.
One reason I stay in my seat is that I'm never 100% sure the pilot's forgotten the sign. For that matter I seldom reach even a tentative conclusion until I know the circumstances under which it's turned back off. Like on the flight into DCA when the sign went off immediately following an announcement that it would be turned on in five minutes for security reasons.
I agree with you completely about the announcements. Personally, when the seat belt sign is on, I stay in my seat (with my belt fastened, of course). But my aching bladder's a lot easier to put up with when I know the sign's lit for a reason.
One reason I stay in my seat is that I'm never 100% sure the pilot's forgotten the sign. For that matter I seldom reach even a tentative conclusion until I know the circumstances under which it's turned back off. Like on the flight into DCA when the sign went off immediately following an announcement that it would be turned on in five minutes for security reasons.
Last edited by Chu Chu; 25th Apr 2009 at 19:17.
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Weather
I would like more clarification if there was weather in the area. I used to get frusterated with guys who liked to push their luck in an attempt to out-climb a growing system or skirt it tightly.
CAT... Had a wild ride over the amazon sleeping on a pallet in L1 and woke up pressed against the crown of the aircraft with an abrubt change in gravity, luckily the pallet was built to max hight and I did not really get banged up at all.
Took off out of Manaus heading for VCP once with 2 bumpers building and converging off to the south, the F/O was flying and wanted to go for the gap between the storms. The Capt did not mind burning the gas and climbing out to the north first but let the F/O have a go at it. We dipped our wing tips in each storm, not much turbulence but it was stupid none the less.
Landing in Brussels, big red blob right in the middle of our planned approach. Captain justified not burning the extra gas by the reasoning that the weather in europe that time of the year was pretty benign when it comes to the up and down drafts most would associate with a storm of that rain density. He was right, not too bumpy, but the static discharge we experienced had all of our vision and hearing screwed up for a few moments.
These days of conservation have companies pumping aircraft to minimum required fuel, this has a definate effect on pilot judgement. The stupid situations I have been in were mostly in freighters, much more care is taken when there are 400 souls onboard.
The 2 things I have to say here kids are allways keep your seatbelt loosley attached around the waist and never,never fly through the red stuff and avoid the yellow as much as possible.
CAT... Had a wild ride over the amazon sleeping on a pallet in L1 and woke up pressed against the crown of the aircraft with an abrubt change in gravity, luckily the pallet was built to max hight and I did not really get banged up at all.
Took off out of Manaus heading for VCP once with 2 bumpers building and converging off to the south, the F/O was flying and wanted to go for the gap between the storms. The Capt did not mind burning the gas and climbing out to the north first but let the F/O have a go at it. We dipped our wing tips in each storm, not much turbulence but it was stupid none the less.
Landing in Brussels, big red blob right in the middle of our planned approach. Captain justified not burning the extra gas by the reasoning that the weather in europe that time of the year was pretty benign when it comes to the up and down drafts most would associate with a storm of that rain density. He was right, not too bumpy, but the static discharge we experienced had all of our vision and hearing screwed up for a few moments.
These days of conservation have companies pumping aircraft to minimum required fuel, this has a definate effect on pilot judgement. The stupid situations I have been in were mostly in freighters, much more care is taken when there are 400 souls onboard.
The 2 things I have to say here kids are allways keep your seatbelt loosley attached around the waist and never,never fly through the red stuff and avoid the yellow as much as possible.
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PJ2
If you're a real pilot, whether commercial or private, you'd understand all this and know that airline pilots, any pilots, do not fly as close to thunderstorms "as we dare". Do you think we just make all this up as we go and just guess or that there's a John Wayne in every pilot just waiting to let loose? Airlines have ops manuals which provide clear guidance on TCU avoidance, usually 20 miles from the red returns and more if there are hooks, curls or steep gradients in the returns. Bear in mind what I said about radar as well, although as a pilot you should know this already as part of your kit. From such knowledge, as a pilot you're pretty quick in assigning blame to crews and setting your hair on fire over an incident the cause of which no one has yet any knowledge.
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On the way to Lanzarote a few weeks ago (Aer Lingus from BFS) the seatbelt sign was switched for the entire last hour of the flight because of turbulence which was quite rocky at times.
The flight attendant in charge of the cabin told everyone who visited the lavatory during this period - in a friendly way - doing so was entirely at their own risk as there was a danger of injury because of the conditions. We were sitting at the front and heard what she said on numerous occasions but when Mrs. Frequent Flyer had no option but to visit the 'littlest room on the A320' 15 minutes before landing she too was warned of the possible consequences.
I told her I thought she should wait until getting into the terminal at Arrecife but this was not an option. Understandable after two cups of tea and a soft drink on a flight which lasted more than four hours.
One elderly lady made her way along the unsteady aisle on her walking stick holding on to each seat.
On Friday evening we were returning from LBA to BHD. In his pre-flight announcement the pilot warned it was bumpy in the cruise and emphasised the need for people to keep their seatbelts on.
Initially, he turned the lights off andI visited the lavatory but when I was in the cupboard that passes for a toilet on the Dash 8 400 the rocking started again and he switched on the signs. I went back to my seat but despite the seatbelt signs remaining illuminated and the obviously bumpy conditions people still continued to visit the lavatory including unaccompanied children.
Personally, I don't understand why people put themselves at risk this way on a flight which lasted only 40 minutes.
The cabin crew did continue with the service but at least one drink was spilled.
The flight attendant in charge of the cabin told everyone who visited the lavatory during this period - in a friendly way - doing so was entirely at their own risk as there was a danger of injury because of the conditions. We were sitting at the front and heard what she said on numerous occasions but when Mrs. Frequent Flyer had no option but to visit the 'littlest room on the A320' 15 minutes before landing she too was warned of the possible consequences.
I told her I thought she should wait until getting into the terminal at Arrecife but this was not an option. Understandable after two cups of tea and a soft drink on a flight which lasted more than four hours.
One elderly lady made her way along the unsteady aisle on her walking stick holding on to each seat.
On Friday evening we were returning from LBA to BHD. In his pre-flight announcement the pilot warned it was bumpy in the cruise and emphasised the need for people to keep their seatbelts on.
Initially, he turned the lights off andI visited the lavatory but when I was in the cupboard that passes for a toilet on the Dash 8 400 the rocking started again and he switched on the signs. I went back to my seat but despite the seatbelt signs remaining illuminated and the obviously bumpy conditions people still continued to visit the lavatory including unaccompanied children.
Personally, I don't understand why people put themselves at risk this way on a flight which lasted only 40 minutes.
The cabin crew did continue with the service but at least one drink was spilled.
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at their own risk
The problem is that He/She also jeopardize all other passengers safety to,,right?
Like a friend to me asked the backseat(car) passenger to put on his belt and he answer he donīt need!! my friend told him "maybe you donīt need but i also donīt need you to crush ME when you flying out the window"
hehe
muduckace;
Yes, in my early days of getting the licences/ratings I ran across a few people like that - bright, brash, very talented, and more than a few of them, dead, along with their passengers. Can you see an airline tolerating a "John Wayne" approach though? That's what I meant. I'm not saying it doesn't happen - I know it does because we've seen it in the data and so began showing both management and the line pilots what a few were actually doing when no one was watching, with and without passengers on board - remarkably it stopped coming up in the data after a while...
Yes we are but being a pilot means one is in control of those basic human foibles such as the desire to show off, to have a huge ego, to think that one is "god's gift", etc. I think I know what you mean, but still, I can't think of a single SLF, manager, regulator, jury, that would accept that this obvious fact excuses an absence of cockpit discpline and lack of professionalism.
Another sad story:
plenty of idiots who flew like John Wayne,
we are after all human.
Another sad story:
Texas Woman Breaks Neck, Back In Airplane Turbulence
Doctor: 'Passenger Has Same Injuries As Christopher Reeve'
By EMILY FRIEDMAN
April 21, 2009
A woman who was paralyzed after disobeying warnings to remain in her seat during a turbulent flight over Texas has suffered the same type of catastrophic injuries as the late Christopher Reeve, according to her doctor.
Lawyer says his client didn't get "high standard of care" during turbulence."She is paralyzed from the nipples to her toes," said Dr. Trey Fulp, the spinal surgeon who will perform a second operation today on the passenger at the McAllen Medical Center in McAllen, Tex. The woman was one of two passengers and one crew member on Continental flight 511 from Houston to McAllen who were injured early Saturday morning in mid-flight.
Fulp described the severity of the passenger's injury as a "hangman's fracture," a term used to describe the neck break commonly seen in patients who hang themselves.
Fulp's wife, Kathy Fulp, was one of the first nurses to treat the patient. She told ABCNews.com that the 47-year-old Spanish-speaking woman, whom she declined to identify by name, suffered a broken back at the thoracic level and a fracture between the C1 and C2 vertebrae in her neck, the same injury that left Reeve paralyzed after falling off his horse in 1995.
"She had gotten up and gone to the bathroom," said Fulp. "When she was in the bathroom the flight apparently hit turbulence and she was thrown to the ceiling, which is how she got the C1 C2 fracture. Then she was thrown back against the toilet, which broke her back."
It was not immediately known if she will be able to walk again.
Kathy Fulp said that flight attendants rushed to the passenger's side and moved her into the aisle of the aircraft for the remainder of the approximately 50-minute flight.
The two other individuals were treated for minor injuries, according to Fulp, who said one of them had torn a ligament in her knee. The injuries were sustained during the descent of the aircraft, approximately 15 minutes before landing.
Mary Clarke, a spokeswoman for Continental Airlines, confirmed that three individuals from Flight 511, en route from George Bush Houston Intercontinental Airport to the McAllen-Miller International Airport, had been taken to the local hospital after being injured in the turbulence.
Storms in the Houston area had delayed the flight several hours and had caused major delays for both inbound and outbound aircraft.
"The flight experienced turbulence as it approached McAllen," said Clark, who declined to identify the injured passengers and crew member or provide details of the injuries.
A woman traveling on a Continental Airlines plane was paralyzed after getting up from her seat despite warnings of in-flight turbulence.
"The seat belt sign was illuminated at the time," added Clark. The passenger, who was from McAllen, had gotten up from her seat to use the restroom after the sign to remain seated was illuminated.
Clark said the Boeing 737 had 104 passengers and five crew members and was scheduled to arrive in McAllen at 10:40 p.m. on Friday, April 17, but because of the weather delay did not land until after 2 a.m. on Saturday April 18.
"Our real priority is to assist the customer who remains hospitalized and their family members with their needs," said Clark, who confirmed that the National Transportation Safety Board is also investigating the incident.
According to Kathy Fulp, the passenger was operated on for six hours yesterday and was scheduled for surgery again today to repair injuries to her neck.
Described by Trey Fulp as "alert," the passenger was reportedly aware of her condition and managed to wiggle her toes this morning, a positive sign for a patient who is battling paralysis.
The surgeon told ABCNews.com that the patient has been removed from the ventilator and is now able to speak. He described her as "anxious" and "scared" but said that her family -- including her children -- were at the hospital with her. He said he remains hopeful that she will recover because of the speed at which she was operated on.
"Only time will tell if she will recover," said Fulp. "My gut feeling is that she will because we got her in very quickly."
Doctor: 'Passenger Has Same Injuries As Christopher Reeve'
By EMILY FRIEDMAN
April 21, 2009
A woman who was paralyzed after disobeying warnings to remain in her seat during a turbulent flight over Texas has suffered the same type of catastrophic injuries as the late Christopher Reeve, according to her doctor.
Lawyer says his client didn't get "high standard of care" during turbulence."She is paralyzed from the nipples to her toes," said Dr. Trey Fulp, the spinal surgeon who will perform a second operation today on the passenger at the McAllen Medical Center in McAllen, Tex. The woman was one of two passengers and one crew member on Continental flight 511 from Houston to McAllen who were injured early Saturday morning in mid-flight.
Fulp described the severity of the passenger's injury as a "hangman's fracture," a term used to describe the neck break commonly seen in patients who hang themselves.
Fulp's wife, Kathy Fulp, was one of the first nurses to treat the patient. She told ABCNews.com that the 47-year-old Spanish-speaking woman, whom she declined to identify by name, suffered a broken back at the thoracic level and a fracture between the C1 and C2 vertebrae in her neck, the same injury that left Reeve paralyzed after falling off his horse in 1995.
"She had gotten up and gone to the bathroom," said Fulp. "When she was in the bathroom the flight apparently hit turbulence and she was thrown to the ceiling, which is how she got the C1 C2 fracture. Then she was thrown back against the toilet, which broke her back."
It was not immediately known if she will be able to walk again.
Kathy Fulp said that flight attendants rushed to the passenger's side and moved her into the aisle of the aircraft for the remainder of the approximately 50-minute flight.
The two other individuals were treated for minor injuries, according to Fulp, who said one of them had torn a ligament in her knee. The injuries were sustained during the descent of the aircraft, approximately 15 minutes before landing.
Mary Clarke, a spokeswoman for Continental Airlines, confirmed that three individuals from Flight 511, en route from George Bush Houston Intercontinental Airport to the McAllen-Miller International Airport, had been taken to the local hospital after being injured in the turbulence.
Storms in the Houston area had delayed the flight several hours and had caused major delays for both inbound and outbound aircraft.
"The flight experienced turbulence as it approached McAllen," said Clark, who declined to identify the injured passengers and crew member or provide details of the injuries.
A woman traveling on a Continental Airlines plane was paralyzed after getting up from her seat despite warnings of in-flight turbulence.
"The seat belt sign was illuminated at the time," added Clark. The passenger, who was from McAllen, had gotten up from her seat to use the restroom after the sign to remain seated was illuminated.
Clark said the Boeing 737 had 104 passengers and five crew members and was scheduled to arrive in McAllen at 10:40 p.m. on Friday, April 17, but because of the weather delay did not land until after 2 a.m. on Saturday April 18.
"Our real priority is to assist the customer who remains hospitalized and their family members with their needs," said Clark, who confirmed that the National Transportation Safety Board is also investigating the incident.
According to Kathy Fulp, the passenger was operated on for six hours yesterday and was scheduled for surgery again today to repair injuries to her neck.
Described by Trey Fulp as "alert," the passenger was reportedly aware of her condition and managed to wiggle her toes this morning, a positive sign for a patient who is battling paralysis.
The surgeon told ABCNews.com that the patient has been removed from the ventilator and is now able to speak. He described her as "anxious" and "scared" but said that her family -- including her children -- were at the hospital with her. He said he remains hopeful that she will recover because of the speed at which she was operated on.
"Only time will tell if she will recover," said Fulp. "My gut feeling is that she will because we got her in very quickly."
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PJ2:
I am a Pilot thanks and fully conversant in the use of the wx radar and its limitations as well as my airlines ops manual and guidance related to avoidance distances (which are minimum distances). I'm one of these people who take a lot of notice of Pilot reports of turbulence and actively scan ahead with the the radar looking for any potential nastiness and am not afraid to burn a bit extra gas to fly lower down (if the CAT is higher up) or fly more than the minimum distance when going around a CB. I know I am not the only one.
My comments were established from my own experience of flying with one too many of the "John Wayne" types who have come up with the classic line "we'll be fine, I've done this loads of times" when trying to out-climb a storm or skirting round with the wing tip in the cloud.
I also fully appreciate the conditions around the tropics and ITCZ can lead to conditions that are unavoidable and this may be the case here (if you look back I originally said I don't know the facts of this case and so am not offering speculation as to this particular incident). However, sometimes these incidents are totally avoidable and that was my point. We are equally quick to point the finger at the pax for not having the seatbelts on (which of course they should do and there is no excuse for them not to have unless they are in the loo when the sign comes on) and I was merely acting as devils advocate by putting across the other question. Thats all.
I am a Pilot thanks and fully conversant in the use of the wx radar and its limitations as well as my airlines ops manual and guidance related to avoidance distances (which are minimum distances). I'm one of these people who take a lot of notice of Pilot reports of turbulence and actively scan ahead with the the radar looking for any potential nastiness and am not afraid to burn a bit extra gas to fly lower down (if the CAT is higher up) or fly more than the minimum distance when going around a CB. I know I am not the only one.
My comments were established from my own experience of flying with one too many of the "John Wayne" types who have come up with the classic line "we'll be fine, I've done this loads of times" when trying to out-climb a storm or skirting round with the wing tip in the cloud.
I also fully appreciate the conditions around the tropics and ITCZ can lead to conditions that are unavoidable and this may be the case here (if you look back I originally said I don't know the facts of this case and so am not offering speculation as to this particular incident). However, sometimes these incidents are totally avoidable and that was my point. We are equally quick to point the finger at the pax for not having the seatbelts on (which of course they should do and there is no excuse for them not to have unless they are in the loo when the sign comes on) and I was merely acting as devils advocate by putting across the other question. Thats all.
maybe they can wear a special Tag or 6 stripes instead
