Kids disembarked from easyJet flight

[Rainboe]

It's not in 'small print'. Easyjet T & Cs are clear to everybody. That is hardly an apology when you go on to justify your peculiar stance!

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by biscuit74

How well advertised are these Ts & Cs. In my experience of bucket outfits like Easyjet, they keep a lot of this stuff in fairly small print, deliberately. Rather as with insurance policies, it allows them to be very selective when they wish to be.

I'll say it again. The bookings were physically made by a professional schools travel organiser, School Travel Service Ltd, who can be expected to understand all such things. That is what they get paid for. They were the ones who accepted the Easyjet T&Cs on behalf of all the travellers here. Of all the Easyjet T&Cs this must be one that a school travel organiser comes into contact with every day.

The T&Cs are not in small print, and they would not be permitted to do so. This was stamped out in contracts many years ago.

Easyjet are not a bucket outfit. In 15 years of operations they have built up one of the largest air carriers in Europe, with all-new aircraft and the professionalism you would expect to go with this. Immaculate safety record.

[ihadcontrol]

Aside from the Easyjet stuff...... 2 teachers to 28 pupils? Not really good youth work/school policy for a trip abroad!

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

your peculiar stance!

I guess I'm peculiar too as I tend to agree with most of biscuit's last post.
The total dumbing down of the airline industry is utterly shameless and I'm delighted that I am now too old to participate up front.
It seems that experience, competence and judgment has been completely removed from the scene and replaced by faceless, nameless and often unnecessary bureaucratic "watch your six" rules and procedures.
If the "rules" are set, however ill considered, the captain or any other suitably qualified officer must enforce them but when will you in the industry wake up and take sensible charge?
Of course Easyjet is a "bucket" outfit, it matters not a hoot how long it has been operating, but that is not to denigrate the professionalism, competence and ability of its operating crew. It's the suits who are to blame for the sorry state of the UK air industry, together with the sad state of nannyism which is ruining this once fine country.

Sorry- bit of a rant- but I feel better now.

[flybar]

The 1:10 ratio for foreign trips is advocated in many publications from various Governing Bodies, the Department for Education (or whatever it is called this week) and backed by the NSPCC amongst other organisations.
The organisers have no excuse for not knowing. EasyJet are quite right in their action and should something have happened would not have had a leg to stand on.

[paully]

This should have been posted in Jet Blast

However, well done to the Ezy skipper....

[FrequentSLF]

Just read the T&C before flying.
I always wonder when people says "I did not know that, is not fair".
Well when you purchased your ticket you should be aware of what are the T&C. This does not only apply to the airline industry...

Now a question for the informed, could any other adult travelling on the same flight came forward and say that he would accompany the children?

[lomapaseo]

This should have been posted in Jet Blast

Nah, it's informative to the passengers and SLF

poof

[surely not]

I cannot believe that Biscuit is still floundering around in a sea of incorrect assertions.

A bucket shop is a Travel Agent that sells tickets dumped at below cost fares by airlines including many scheduled carriers of such pedigree as BA, Lufthansa etc. Never heard of a bucket airline before.

I am forming the impression that Biscuit is one of those who is never wrong in life. If easyJet had carried the children and a problem resulted which caused a diversion no doubt he would have trawled throught their Conditions of Carriage and demanded the flogging of the Captain because he DIDN'T follow them.

Never mind Biscuit, more like wants his cake and eat it!!!

I have nearly recovered from the shock of agreeing with Rainboe on a topic on here

[west lakes]

Now a question for the informed, could any other adult travelling on the same flight came forward and say that he would accompany the children?

Doubt it, CRB checks and all that for anyone involved with children (imagine the furor if a non-checked person had done the wrong thing!)

At the end of the day we have a situation where (supposedly) well educated and responsible people have arranged a trip for other people's children, not checked the T&C's of the carrier or relied on others to do it for them, are on the edge of compliance with national advice for supervision levels, I somehow doubt I would let any child of mine (he's 19 now so not an issue) travel abroad with that group of "responsible people".

Should add that I was involved with a volunteer youth organisation for 18 years starting from about 23 years ago, the 1:10 ratio was in force back then - though oddly enough lots of schools didn't comply with it!

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

Far be it for me to defend the good biscuit (I'm sure he's more than capable) but if you (surely not) reread his last post he accepts the T's& C'c but criticizes the whole woolly rationale behind it. So do I.
We all know what is inferred by the term "bucket" and to use it for an airline whilst not literally correct, does sufficiently indicate the type of operation ie verging on dodgy in comparison to main line airlines (or ticket agencies) Good to see pedantry alive and well.

[anotherthing]

ROG

The Ts and Cs clearly state a ratio of 1:10. You argue that the rational behind it is flawed.

So what do you think the ratio should be 1:20, 1:30...??? What if I or any other Tom Dick or Harriet disagree with the figure you pluck out of the air?

The total dumbing down of the airline industry is utterly shameless and I'm delighted that I am now too old to participate up front.
It seems that experience, competence and judgment has been completely removed from the scene

You are totally correct - there is a dumbing down of the airline industry in all aspects.

However don't you think that just sometimes having 'trivial' things like this written down in Ts and Cs actually helps the Captain concentrate on his main task instead of leaving every little decision up to him?

Don't you think that having such matters in black and white helps keep the operation running smoothly?

It's a condition of travel, clearly stated. People who choose to fly low cost airlines should be aware of the many rules that abound and therefore should take extra care to read the conditions of booking.


If people aren't capable of reading and understanding the conditions of carriage, maybe they are not fit to travel unaccompanied. The fact a Travel booking service screwed up is even worse!

As for your comment

...inferred by the term "bucket" and to use it for an airline whilst not literally correct, does sufficiently indicate the type of operation ie verging on dodgy in comparison to main line airlines ...

You're making it even worse than Biscuit74 did (and he's obviously crackers)!! What do you base this statement on?

I'm an ATCO working for NATS in the LTMA. I control aircraft operating into and out of EGLL, EGKK, EGSS, EGGW, EGBB, EGHI etc to name but a few.

I can assure you that the crews of these so called bucket organisations are every bit as professional as the 'mainline carriers'.

Your statement is completely inflammatory and totally out of order!

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

Read it again "another thing". It's the Airline management I refer to, not the operating crew.

Of course Easyjet is a "bucket" outfit, it matters not a hoot how long it has been operating, but that is not to denigrate the professionalism, competence and ability of its operating crew. It's the suits who are to blame for the sorry state of the UK air industry, together with the sad state of nannyism which is ruining this once fine country.

Don't have a problem with the application of rules, just want them to be framed by people with competence and experience; and don't get too hung up on specifics, my comments ( a rant really) was the huge unneccessary raft of rules which now consume the industry. (As a matter of interest I reckon that a teacher who controls 30 kids in class can manage more than 10 in the air, but that's only an uninformed opinion)
I repeat, the captain or any other qualified officer has no alternative but to apply the rules, but for the love of God let's try and get the rules correct, relevant and useable.

[west lakes]

Don't have a problem with the application of rules, just want them to be framed by people with competence and experience

I would guess that Easyjet are well aware that the don't have the competence and experience regarding the adult/child ratio. So it would make sense to consult those who have, perhaps they got the advice here?

The 1:10 ratio for foreign trips is advocated in many publications from various Governing Bodies, the Department for Education (or whatever it is called this week) and backed by the NSPCC amongst other organisations.

Unless you think these bodies lack the competance and experience!

Believe it, the journey onboard any transport is the easy bit as all the children are in one place, dealing with them at a busy airport/seaport/public place can be hard work at a 1:10 ratio

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

OK everyone, don't burst a blood vessel, it was only a rant on the suffocating overcomplication of T's and C's in general, rules, limitations etc but particularly the insiduous nannyism which is killing this industry and the country.
If the industry standard is 10 to 1 as advocated by the dept of Education (a fine organisation with a record of unparalleled success) and the NSPCC (an unrivalled history of aviation), so be it. We must obey.
However, we, the Industry, could and should be doing better.

[Rainboe]

We don't need to! For goodness sake it is laid down in black and white (or maybe orange on a yellow background whatever) what the regulations are, and as pointed out, especially after Pablo ('my Mum couldn't spell 'Paul'') Mason, there is no latitude to bend the rules. The industry has done it fine- the school failed for not checking its kids were looked after, and the tour operator failed.

[boguing]

I'd been wondering about volunteer surrogates. I'm fully CRB checked, and would certainly have stepped forward to offer to 'supervise'. Must say though that my CRB certificate is not something I carry when traveling - that might be slightly pervy. So they'd have had to 'phone in to some database or other to check me out.

From recent parental experience I'd say that half the adults on a ski trip are teachers, and the other half are (grateful) parents. So unless the carrier insisted on the adults being booked within the group, I'd have thought it was a good way around it.

ps. If School Travel Service Ltd are reading this, and need a CRB checked adult available now, contact me by pm to discusss my rates.

[13 please]

That's a nice idea 'boguing', however you have to be CRB checked to that address, the address of the school.

As cabin crew, I have been CRB checked twice, yet if I want to help at my kids' school disco, be a reading mum, go on a school trip, etc, I have to be CRB checked again.

I haven't done it as I'm not really that bothered, but you couldn't just step in, as it were. Unless the different counties have different rules, who knows..??

[Rainboe]

OmiGod! This is going too far! How come everybody knows better? You think you can pick someone off the street these days and ask them to supervise children fer goodness sake? And why should another passenger take responsibility for a bunch of kids? Do you think paying such lip service to the rules is enough these days? Crazy suggestion!

[Jofm5]

Had I been the Captain of said flight, I would have applied common sense (is that allowed anymore?) and asked for ONE adult volunteer passenger to act as responsible person to assist should it become necessary.

All very well to get someone to assist on the outbound flight but what if on the return leg there are no volunteers - that group is then stranded abroad.

A captain can apply common sense but he cant turn a blind eye to the insurance requirements. For the captain to suggest another pax fulfil a role on the way out and the group gets stranded because no pax will fulfil the the role on the way back who would the school head be bitching at ?

The responsible thing to do is what the captain did and offload them until the conditions are met. With the letter of the law ignornace is no defence - had something un-toward happened and children never managed to evacute the craft the captain as the ultimate person responsible would be hung out to dry.

Although there are some disappointed kids they are alive disappointed kids - Ultimately it is their safety that is primarily of the captains concern - it is not a case of refusing carraige for proving empowerment for his ego.