"Wait In Lounge" vs. "Go To Gate" At Stansted
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"Wait In Lounge" vs. "Go To Gate" At Stansted
A question for anyone in the know.
On recent trips out of Stansted I've felt that passengers have been kept un-necessarily long in the "shopping mall": i.e., that even though the gate numbers for flights have been displayed, we've been instructed to wait in the lounge and not go to the gate.
Now, for most of my Ryanair flights I've ignored this instruction and walked to the "Ryanair pier" knowing that if I've made a mistake I can simply walk back again.
I had thought that keeping passengers in the main departure lounge is due to the possibility of last minute gate changes and recognise that if being at the wrong gate necessitates use of the transit, this could pose a problem.
I had also thought that, possibly, we were held in the main departure lounge to ease congestion, but the gate areas often seem less crowded than the main departure lounge so this would seem less likely to be the case.
However, I do wonder whether the real motive might be to ensure that we spend as much as possible in the shops.
Any comments? Thanks.
On recent trips out of Stansted I've felt that passengers have been kept un-necessarily long in the "shopping mall": i.e., that even though the gate numbers for flights have been displayed, we've been instructed to wait in the lounge and not go to the gate.
Now, for most of my Ryanair flights I've ignored this instruction and walked to the "Ryanair pier" knowing that if I've made a mistake I can simply walk back again.
I had thought that keeping passengers in the main departure lounge is due to the possibility of last minute gate changes and recognise that if being at the wrong gate necessitates use of the transit, this could pose a problem.
I had also thought that, possibly, we were held in the main departure lounge to ease congestion, but the gate areas often seem less crowded than the main departure lounge so this would seem less likely to be the case.
However, I do wonder whether the real motive might be to ensure that we spend as much as possible in the shops.
Any comments? Thanks.
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<<Now, for most of my Ryanair flights I've ignored this instruction and walked to the "Ryanair pier" knowing that if I've made a mistake I can simply walk back again.>
So, you ignore instructions, eh? May I ask why? When I fly I obey instructions. If everybody had the attitude that they knew best and ignored instructions the situation would be chaotic. There could be a dozen reasons why you are kept in the lounge so why not accept that?
Just because there are shops, you don't have to patronise them. As a passenger I've never spent a penny in an airport shop although I appreciate that some may not be able to restrain themselves!
So, you ignore instructions, eh? May I ask why? When I fly I obey instructions. If everybody had the attitude that they knew best and ignored instructions the situation would be chaotic. There could be a dozen reasons why you are kept in the lounge so why not accept that?
Just because there are shops, you don't have to patronise them. As a passenger I've never spent a penny in an airport shop although I appreciate that some may not be able to restrain themselves!
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It's the handling agents that call flights to the gates for boarding not the BAA...Can't speak for Stansted, but at Gatwick we don't call pax to the gate unless 1) the planned gate and stand are clear (ie not being used for another flight) and 2) the aircraft is here or at least on final approach (in case of late stand change by the BAA) Given Ryanair operate 25 minute turnarounds, pax are generally called to the gate between 30 and 45 minutes prior to departure. If we call pax down to the gate any earlier they moan and want to know why they were called to the gate when the aircraft is not actually boarding... call them any later and they moan they have had to rush from the departure lounge...either way we can't win!!!
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I do exactly the same mate. It makes sense and I hate that bloody shopping mall. There's *no* harm in doing this Heathrow Director I gotta say I bet you don't fly a Hell of a lot these days because if you did you'd know that there is an insanity and paranoi behind a lot of these "instructions". More relevant, the "Wait In Lounge" is pretty geared to getting Joe Public to part with the cash in the shops.
You are free to return from Pier 3 without breaking the rules. If someone knows why you can't do the same at Glasgow I'd love to know why? Arriving and departing passengers are seperated at both.
You are free to return from Pier 3 without breaking the rules. If someone knows why you can't do the same at Glasgow I'd love to know why? Arriving and departing passengers are seperated at both.
Maybe it doesn't happen in STN, but in at least one of the UK airports I frequent the screen had the phrase 'Relax and Shop'.
I must be getting grumpy in my old age, that really annoys me for some reason.
I must be getting grumpy in my old age, that really annoys me for some reason.
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They do the same "wait in lounge" at LHR/EGLL T3, but with the added twist that at the last minute it suddenly goes from "wait in lounge" to "boarding" to "last call" in the time it takes you to get across the lounge. Another reason why I never use LHR unless there is no alternative.
Last minute gate changes are no excuse. At AMS/EHAM to name just one you can wait where you want and gate changes are never a problem.
Last minute gate changes are no excuse. At AMS/EHAM to name just one you can wait where you want and gate changes are never a problem.
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I can see both sides of the coin as far as Stansted is concerned.
On the one hand, going to the gate before being called to do so could cause delays and/or pax offloading in the event of a late gate change. So many of the gates are a good few minutes on the underground rail system (which loops, if I remember correctly) and to get back to where you started could take some time if ones goes to the gate prematurely and then the gate is altered.
On the other, I have known 'Go to gate' and 'final call' be shown within two minutes of each other, especially with tight turnaround times such as FR operate. This can cause a last minute panic and rush, especially for those queueing in the shops to pay before getting on the undergound rail to the gate. I have even seen/heard 'final call' annoucements made before the first pax. actually pass through to board which makes a mockery of the 'final' announcement and leads to pax. becoming more blase about real urgency (sorry, don't know how to put the accent on 'blase' but you'll know what I mean!).
As for 'Relax and Shop' all too often it is taken as 'drink and get merry'....!
On the one hand, going to the gate before being called to do so could cause delays and/or pax offloading in the event of a late gate change. So many of the gates are a good few minutes on the underground rail system (which loops, if I remember correctly) and to get back to where you started could take some time if ones goes to the gate prematurely and then the gate is altered.
On the other, I have known 'Go to gate' and 'final call' be shown within two minutes of each other, especially with tight turnaround times such as FR operate. This can cause a last minute panic and rush, especially for those queueing in the shops to pay before getting on the undergound rail to the gate. I have even seen/heard 'final call' annoucements made before the first pax. actually pass through to board which makes a mockery of the 'final' announcement and leads to pax. becoming more blase about real urgency (sorry, don't know how to put the accent on 'blase' but you'll know what I mean!).
As for 'Relax and Shop' all too often it is taken as 'drink and get merry'....!
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AMS is not run by the BAA....
In Gatwick South there are only 8 gates that can be used for UK domestic (eg GLA EDI BFS BHD MAN IOM etc) and CTA flights (SNN DUB ORK GCI JER). The stands and gates are allocated to flights by the BAA, and are used by Flybe, Aurigny, Aer Lingus, Easyjet and Ryanair, all working to 30 minute turnarounds or less! This means at peak times these gates are in constant use, so one flight cannot be called to a gate until the previous flight has fully boarded. It only takes one flight to run late and the whole stand plan has to be rejigged, whilst taking into account the fact that not all stands can take all aircraft types, and not all gates can be used for CTA flights! This means last minute gate and stand changes happen on a daily basis. Calling passengers to the wrong gate is far more of a hassle for all concerned than leaving them in the Departure Lounge until the gate is confirmed, particularly when 6 of these gates are on one pier and 2 on another. Then add in the fact that most of these gates only comfortably seat between 50-100 pax, and you see what we're up against... no point calling 189 Ryanair pax down an hour before departure to a gate that only holds 50 people...
Until the BAA provides proper gate lounge facilities at Gatwick, particularly for domestic flights, handling agents have no choice but to leave passengers in the departure lounge until they have somewhere to put them!
I've offloaded plenty of passengers who thought they knew better and came down the wrong pier ahead of time, only to find their flight departed from the other pier without them!
There are plenty of seating areas in the departure lounge... no-one is forcing you to go shopping!
In Gatwick South there are only 8 gates that can be used for UK domestic (eg GLA EDI BFS BHD MAN IOM etc) and CTA flights (SNN DUB ORK GCI JER). The stands and gates are allocated to flights by the BAA, and are used by Flybe, Aurigny, Aer Lingus, Easyjet and Ryanair, all working to 30 minute turnarounds or less! This means at peak times these gates are in constant use, so one flight cannot be called to a gate until the previous flight has fully boarded. It only takes one flight to run late and the whole stand plan has to be rejigged, whilst taking into account the fact that not all stands can take all aircraft types, and not all gates can be used for CTA flights! This means last minute gate and stand changes happen on a daily basis. Calling passengers to the wrong gate is far more of a hassle for all concerned than leaving them in the Departure Lounge until the gate is confirmed, particularly when 6 of these gates are on one pier and 2 on another. Then add in the fact that most of these gates only comfortably seat between 50-100 pax, and you see what we're up against... no point calling 189 Ryanair pax down an hour before departure to a gate that only holds 50 people...
Until the BAA provides proper gate lounge facilities at Gatwick, particularly for domestic flights, handling agents have no choice but to leave passengers in the departure lounge until they have somewhere to put them!
I've offloaded plenty of passengers who thought they knew better and came down the wrong pier ahead of time, only to find their flight departed from the other pier without them!
There are plenty of seating areas in the departure lounge... no-one is forcing you to go shopping!
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Plenty of seating in the departure lounge at LGW South? You must be kidding!
For some easyJet passengers, another problem with delaying "Go To Gate" is that "Speedy Boarding", "SA" and group A have all sometimes been called before many passengers have reached the gate.
To return to Stansted, why display the gate number beside "Wait in Lounge"? It's an invitation to some pax!
On one occasion, we were at around ETD -40 minutes and it was still displaying "Wait in Lounge". Knowing that it can take some time to get to the gate using the transit (and remembering that on one occasion it broke down!) I decided to make my way to the gate. The flight was late but there was no indication of that in the shopping mall so I didn't know this. Furthermore, being web check in - and therefore having no hold luggage - you can imagine that I did not want to be seen as a "no show" simply because I'd waited in the lounge too long.
For some easyJet passengers, another problem with delaying "Go To Gate" is that "Speedy Boarding", "SA" and group A have all sometimes been called before many passengers have reached the gate.
To return to Stansted, why display the gate number beside "Wait in Lounge"? It's an invitation to some pax!
On one occasion, we were at around ETD -40 minutes and it was still displaying "Wait in Lounge". Knowing that it can take some time to get to the gate using the transit (and remembering that on one occasion it broke down!) I decided to make my way to the gate. The flight was late but there was no indication of that in the shopping mall so I didn't know this. Furthermore, being web check in - and therefore having no hold luggage - you can imagine that I did not want to be seen as a "no show" simply because I'd waited in the lounge too long.
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Flight Calling Automation
Dropline: At STN the calling of flights to the Gate, ie the messages that display on the FIDS is based on an automatic timing system which is configured within the Airport Operational System. This is configurable for different timings depending on factors such as whether the flight is International or Domestic. I can't remember the timings or all the options, but it is all set by BAA.
However, this process can be - and often is - interrupted by the Handling Agent. Particularly in a delay situation or if there is a particular reason to get the pax to the gate early. The problem here though is that once the automatic process is interrupted it remains manual so the agent must remember to manually update the status.
However, this process can be - and often is - interrupted by the Handling Agent. Particularly in a delay situation or if there is a particular reason to get the pax to the gate early. The problem here though is that once the automatic process is interrupted it remains manual so the agent must remember to manually update the status.
I got to the bottom of this at Stansted some time ago and found that handling agent staff, for their own convenience, will set the sequence of events to run automatically without any reference to reality. This makes life more simplistic for them. So you can find the displays sequence through Wait, Go To Gate, Boarding, and Final Call, when the inbound aircraft has not even arrived on stand. This is on both the advance FIDS displays and the individual gate monitors. You can see there any day Final Call in front of a gate full of passengers where the handling staff have not even turned up yet.
It's no wonder it is regularly mentioned on here that carriers are retendering for handling at Stansted. Nor do BAA escape criticism. It's their airport and if agent staff use the facilities provided incorrectly they should be checked straight away. But as this has gone on there for years I can only conclude that BAA management just sit back in their offices, laugh at the bewildered passengers, and count the daily revenue.
Originally Posted by dropline
There are plenty of seating areas in the departure lounge
Last edited by WHBM; 16th Mar 2009 at 19:31.
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While we are on the subject of irritations, there is a growing trend for "Final Boarding" to be put up on the screens at Luton, Stansted departure lounges (and heaven knows where else) . You rush to the gate and find that boarding hasn't even started yet !
This idiotic patronising gesture treats passengers as ignorant cattle and increasingly will encourage passengers not to rush from departure lounges to the gates with resulting delays. What ever is wrong with giving passengers accurant information on the monitors ? Boarding in 10 mins, Boarding commenced, final boarding etc ? Anyone know who came up with this ridiculous policy of lying to passengers ?
LF
This idiotic patronising gesture treats passengers as ignorant cattle and increasingly will encourage passengers not to rush from departure lounges to the gates with resulting delays. What ever is wrong with giving passengers accurant information on the monitors ? Boarding in 10 mins, Boarding commenced, final boarding etc ? Anyone know who came up with this ridiculous policy of lying to passengers ?
LF
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Whilst not defending the actions of operators who show incorrect information on the FIDS / Gate screens, I wonder how many of the posters in this thread have acted as a boarding gate agent or dispatcher - or even been delayed because other passengers on their flight think 'Final Call' means there's time for just a 'quick-one' in the bar 
WHBM - Just to clarify my earlier post - the default at STN is for the FIDS baording sequence to be automatic. If a Handling Agent intervenes at all with the process then it goes fully manual, ie the boarding status must be manually updated. There is no facility within the system for anyone to put it back to automatic once interrupted.
WHBM - Just to clarify my earlier post - the default at STN is for the FIDS baording sequence to be automatic. If a Handling Agent intervenes at all with the process then it goes fully manual, ie the boarding status must be manually updated. There is no facility within the system for anyone to put it back to automatic once interrupted.
Quite so. And when inbounds are late, they don't intervene, despite procedures in their manuals to do so. Agent management don't care. BAA, owner of the FIDS system, don't care. Presumably the BAA Procurement team bought the cheapest, least featured version of the software they could, and now won't budget to have it improved. And so nonsense continues to be shown.
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I've worked in passenger handling at STN and am currently a Dispatcher at LCY. At STN I used to set the screens to display Final Call at -40 and I encourage the departure lounge at LCY to get my flights set to Final Call asap during the 30min turnaround.
The amount of passengers that think that we will not leave without them (esp at LCY) never ceases to amaze me.
Whether there is endless shopping to be done or a pint to be had at the bar, I want you at the gate ready to go. If displaying final call is going to get you to the gate ready and waiting to be 'processed' then that is what I will do. Should you be one of the many who fails to make it then I'll do my best to offload you in a flash.
The amount of passengers that think that we will not leave without them (esp at LCY) never ceases to amaze me.
Whether there is endless shopping to be done or a pint to be had at the bar, I want you at the gate ready to go. If displaying final call is going to get you to the gate ready and waiting to be 'processed' then that is what I will do. Should you be one of the many who fails to make it then I'll do my best to offload you in a flash.
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If displaying final call is going to get you to the gate ready and waiting to be 'processed' then that is what I will do. Should you be one of the many who fails to make it then I'll do my best to offload you in a flash.
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If displaying final call is going to get you to the gate ready and waiting to be 'processed' then that is what I will do. Should you be one of the many who fails to make it then I'll do my best to offload you in a flash.
But I think that the real problem is not the fault of the operations staff but simply that these airports are badly designed and/or incompatible with a lean, fast turnround model.
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Nothing hostile about it. I have a job to do and only have 30 mins to do it in. When all bar one passenger is sitting on the aircraft and I can't offload the remaining one until -10, to then see them stroll in fully loaded with bags from the tax free shop, it's quite frustrating.
As for boarding in 10 mins, our system at LCY certainly doesn't allow for that. The passengers at LCY only spend a max of 15 mins in the gate before boarding does commence anyway.
You have to remember that we are on this very forum because we have an interest in aviation or work in aviation. Most passengers leave their common sense outside as soon as the enter the terminal.
With regards to late inbound flights, we always get it put straight onto final call as the turnaround time is limited to 20 mins. Quite a few of us have achieved turnarounds in under 10 mins thanks to the passengers all getting to the gate when requested.
As for boarding in 10 mins, our system at LCY certainly doesn't allow for that. The passengers at LCY only spend a max of 15 mins in the gate before boarding does commence anyway.
You have to remember that we are on this very forum because we have an interest in aviation or work in aviation. Most passengers leave their common sense outside as soon as the enter the terminal.
With regards to late inbound flights, we always get it put straight onto final call as the turnaround time is limited to 20 mins. Quite a few of us have achieved turnarounds in under 10 mins thanks to the passengers all getting to the gate when requested.
As you know I'm one of your regulars, but I'm disappointed with this approach, because my experience at LCY is that the majority of pax through there do not in fact leave their brains at home, but follow the procedures very nicely, as you actually describe yourself at the end. In fact, compared to life at Stansted, I would have thought you would find your customers a world different. In my experience, as soon as the gate goes up, most people are there within a couple of minutes.
If you call the pax early at LCY, on a full 146 they will be standing, queueing, on those narrow dark stairs down to each gate. One day there will be a serious accident here (if there hasn't already been one) with numbers of passengers falling down the steps. Any sensible Health & Safety assessment, instead of concerning itself with trivia as normal, would have picked this up as a real concern about LCY. Something that calling pax to the gate before things are ready can only increase.
Very few pax seem to make use of the shops at LCY in fact I wonder how they can stay in business, so the bag-laden traveller is not common. Maybe you are thinking back to Stansted again. No wonder the LCY car park charges have skyrocketed there in recent years, to get something out of the users.
Being the DS is not the only frustrating job around. In fact I am quite likely having to make my trip to deal with some business frustration that has arisen in our own organisation. Probably true about others as well. It's a significant part of aviation's revenue. And if you dispatch me on the first flight out in the morning, I'm suspect you will be home long before I am back on the last flight in.
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There is another factor.
At STN it is a very long way from the main lounge to the pier mostly used by Ryanair.
Even if all the escalators, lifts and rolling pavements are working, which is not always the case, there is still a major trek on foot to accomplish especially if your gate is the one at the end of the pier.
Those of us with a disability have learned that the "Time to get to gate" signs in the lounge, and the "summons to the gate" screens appear to be based upon sound bodied, not to say incredibly fit, individuals.
I know that I need longer than they give me to make it on time, and not be offloaded, so I set off before I should.
Yes I ignore an instruction.
Otherwise our cheerful OpsSix or somebody of like mind will "offload me in a flash"
At STN it is a very long way from the main lounge to the pier mostly used by Ryanair.
Even if all the escalators, lifts and rolling pavements are working, which is not always the case, there is still a major trek on foot to accomplish especially if your gate is the one at the end of the pier.
Those of us with a disability have learned that the "Time to get to gate" signs in the lounge, and the "summons to the gate" screens appear to be based upon sound bodied, not to say incredibly fit, individuals.
I know that I need longer than they give me to make it on time, and not be offloaded, so I set off before I should.
Yes I ignore an instruction.
Otherwise our cheerful OpsSix or somebody of like mind will "offload me in a flash"