US1549 Ditching in Hudson River - Q & A's (Merged)
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US1549 Ditching in Hudson River - Q & A's (Merged)
After two multiple birdstrike incidents bringing down a 737 and now an A320 will y'all, frequent traveller or not, listen to and watch the safety demo now??
We are frequent flyers but we brief EVERY departure very carefully before we fly it to cover potential disasters.
We are frequent flyers but we brief EVERY departure very carefully before we fly it to cover potential disasters.
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Always do, it's stupid not to.
The reinforcement of the knowledge at the start of each flight will help recall in the event of an incident and there are some differences between fleets, sub fleets etc, e.g. location of life vest, overwing exit mechanism, door mechanism, lifevest type (single/dual gas cyclinder, tie or clips etc.)
As a regular traveller, for example, I could have a stab at the type of overwing door from briefings over the years (B738 pivots at top, opens outward, remains attached, A32x plug type, needs to be pulled in, twisted and thrown out, weight about 25kg, older 737 similar.)
As a PPL, I always took delivering the passenger safety brief seriously, as you might have to rely on the RHS pax to open the cabin door, etc.
The reinforcement of the knowledge at the start of each flight will help recall in the event of an incident and there are some differences between fleets, sub fleets etc, e.g. location of life vest, overwing exit mechanism, door mechanism, lifevest type (single/dual gas cyclinder, tie or clips etc.)
As a regular traveller, for example, I could have a stab at the type of overwing door from briefings over the years (B738 pivots at top, opens outward, remains attached, A32x plug type, needs to be pulled in, twisted and thrown out, weight about 25kg, older 737 similar.)
As a PPL, I always took delivering the passenger safety brief seriously, as you might have to rely on the RHS pax to open the cabin door, etc.
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It always helps the CC if you let them know that you have a licence. They can put you next to an exit or ask you to assist as an ABP if there is a problem.
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TRSS
Thanks for your comments.
I am also aware that my knowledge of the cabin systems/environment is minimal, especially as I used to live next door to a house with CC tenants and saw what they had to learn for their type ratings
That's important in not being 'over helpful', if you know what I mean, I'm sure your other half does.
Thanks for your comments.
I am also aware that my knowledge of the cabin systems/environment is minimal, especially as I used to live next door to a house with CC tenants and saw what they had to learn for their type ratings
That's important in not being 'over helpful', if you know what I mean, I'm sure your other half does.
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Unfortunately, I don't think yesterday's events are going to change people's attitudes.
I always listen to the safety demo/video, regardless of whether I know it off by heart for that type or not. 2-3 minutes out from reading the inflight magazine on any length of flight won't hurt.
As for everyone else - as much as I'd like to think they'd start to pay attention, the simple answer is they won't. Why? Because the mentality will always be "air travel is the safest way to get around, accidents do happen but it'll never happen to me..."
I always listen to the safety demo/video, regardless of whether I know it off by heart for that type or not. 2-3 minutes out from reading the inflight magazine on any length of flight won't hurt.
As for everyone else - as much as I'd like to think they'd start to pay attention, the simple answer is they won't. Why? Because the mentality will always be "air travel is the safest way to get around, accidents do happen but it'll never happen to me..."
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Anyone who is remotely sentient will listen, consider, and more importantly, plan what to do if things go TU. How many rows forward and aft to an exit? Who or what will be an obstacle to me? What can I wet and put over my face to use as a primitive gas mask?
The bad news is that a considerable proportion of people will not bother, and in the event of an evacuation, clog the aisles by trying to retrieve their luggage and duty-free from the overhead lockers, pierce the slides with stilettos, forget how to undo their belts, inflate their lifejackets prematurely and so on. There is nothing you can do about this if the crew is incapacitated and cannot maintain discipline.
I am sorry to say this, but I think you're tilting at windmills.
BOFH
The bad news is that a considerable proportion of people will not bother, and in the event of an evacuation, clog the aisles by trying to retrieve their luggage and duty-free from the overhead lockers, pierce the slides with stilettos, forget how to undo their belts, inflate their lifejackets prematurely and so on. There is nothing you can do about this if the crew is incapacitated and cannot maintain discipline.
I am sorry to say this, but I think you're tilting at windmills.
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I invariably give the safety briefing my full attention. However yesterday's incident has changed my view that the safety card pictures of a ditched aircraft floating are a work of fiction! A rough open sea must be a different matter but clearly passenger aircraft can ditch and float. Respect to all involved!
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Hudson Ditching and Location of Life Vests
The US Airways' incident got me wondering whether it is better for life jackets to be located beneath passengers' seats or behind a panel above their heads. It strikes me that there might be situations where being able to reach the life jacket whilst still strapped in might be important.
Does anyone have an opinion on this?
Does anyone have an opinion on this?
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I have no professional opinion, I'm just regular SLF, but it's always been a concern of mine that I couldn't reach/find the life jacket. I know where it's kept, naturally, but I'm not particularly flexible and economy cabins are a little bit on the wee side. 
I'm sure it's there because of space issues, but if any genius ever came up with a better location it would let me rest a little easier. Every time I hear that part of the safety announcement I think 'I cant reach it, I can't reach it!'. 
I'm sure it's there because of space issues, but if any genius ever came up with a better location it would let me rest a little easier. Every time I hear that part of the safety announcement I think 'I cant reach it, I can't reach it!'.
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BOFH -
I'm an anxious flyer, and I also like to think I'm polite. How anyone can be so rude, ignorant and plain stupid enough to ignore the FA's as they give a SAFETY briefing boggles the mind. Frankly, if they all end up toast that's their problem, but as you so rightfully state BOFH, it's the fact that they end up taking people with them that really grinds my gears. It's not lifejackets that should be under the seat, it's stun guns - zap the blighters out of the way as you calmly count the rows to your nearest exit.
Interestingly, one of the news sites reported that a passenger from flight 1549 insisted on taking her luggage. Yeah, that whole landing in the river thing didn't pase you at all, did it lady?
The bad news is that a considerable proportion of people will not bother, and in the event of an evacuation, clog the aisles by trying to retrieve their luggage and duty-free from the overhead lockers, pierce the slides with stilettos, forget how to undo their belts, inflate their lifejackets prematurely and so on. There is nothing you can do about this if the crew is incapacitated and cannot maintain discipline.
Interestingly, one of the news sites reported that a passenger from flight 1549 insisted on taking her luggage. Yeah, that whole landing in the river thing didn't pase you at all, did it lady?
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On the latest B737NG's (at least with us) the lifejackets are stowed in the panel above your head just like the oxygen masks. Also helps with preventing/catching thieves of lifejackets as it does occur!!
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I guess there are arguments for both. If you were ditching because of fire, you wouldn't want to be looking up to find your lifejacket, you'd be bending low, so a jacket under the seat would probably help you. As each situation is different and from my experience, rarely goes by the book, it's a case of six of one...
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Why not stay in an aircraft that ditches?
If an aircraft is intact after ditching, why not stay inside where it is airtight (watertight) until rescue crews come?
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Because an airliner is neither airtight nor watertight. The rate at which the water leaks into the fuselage can be reduced, by closing various valves in the air-con and pressurization systems, in order to give pax and crew enough time to evacuate before the cabin becomes submerged.
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Were the fuselage to partially submerge, opening outward hinged doors against water and wave pressure might become difficult when a decision to leave was finally taken.
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Merged Threads
I've merged several threads on this extraordinary incident for ease of reference.
As usual, the excellent Matt at the Telegraph has a different take on things...
As usual, the excellent Matt at the Telegraph has a different take on things...
Paxing All Over The World
Extraordinary? Yes, almost beyond words. I agree that it will make no diff to the folks that listen to the briefing. IF more do so - then it will only be for a few weeks. You think that 777 pax listen more carefully after 038?
Also, I think the smoothness of the river that was (as far as I can tell) on the EBB tide as opposed to a river on the FLOOD (it creates a very choppy surface) and not on open water - made this survivable. It is reported hat both engines dropped away (as they should) and so helped to make a smooth 'run out'. My guess (note - guess!) is that both flight crew were superb and lucky, lucky, lucky. That is NOT a criticism but luck had so much to play in this. Had they have been on the opposite runway - would they have been turning over a nice stretch of ebb tide? And many other points. Again, not to take away from crew (flight + cabin) who proved their mettle and that they deserved their responsibilities. But luck was a huge part of this.
Also, I think the smoothness of the river that was (as far as I can tell) on the EBB tide as opposed to a river on the FLOOD (it creates a very choppy surface) and not on open water - made this survivable. It is reported hat both engines dropped away (as they should) and so helped to make a smooth 'run out'. My guess (note - guess!) is that both flight crew were superb and lucky, lucky, lucky. That is NOT a criticism but luck had so much to play in this. Had they have been on the opposite runway - would they have been turning over a nice stretch of ebb tide? And many other points. Again, not to take away from crew (flight + cabin) who proved their mettle and that they deserved their responsibilities. But luck was a huge part of this.