BA Service
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F3G - If you still decide to write in (I think you should) please be sure and let us know how this all progresses - fascinating stuff!
I have to say that the airline behavior demonstrated strikes me as somewhat kamikaze in a year such as this - still, what do I know?
I have to say that the airline behavior demonstrated strikes me as somewhat kamikaze in a year such as this - still, what do I know?
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Doesn't BA ever learn? It's almost as if it thinks that however badly it treats its customers, the strength of the brand means that they will return (or be replaced by others). To some extent this has been true. However, surely one of the basic tenets of business is that it's preferable to hold on to an existing customer than it is to find a new one.
I remember a few years ago there was great emphasis put on "service recovery" at BA. For a while I found the BA Miles I was given adequate compensation for things that had gone wrong. More recently the mantra has been "getting the basics right". Why does it forget these? Poor training? Staff turnover?
I remember a few years ago there was great emphasis put on "service recovery" at BA. For a while I found the BA Miles I was given adequate compensation for things that had gone wrong. More recently the mantra has been "getting the basics right". Why does it forget these? Poor training? Staff turnover?
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It's almost as if it thinks that however badly it treats its customers, the strength of the brand means that they will return
I think BA have managed to convince 'the powers that be' that they are essential to UK PLC and so they are somewhat protected from some of the commercial realities that other UK based airlines are subject too. Since VS forced their way into LHR they have become somewhat pampered too. Of course, other countries protect their airlines as well. But while BA are permitted to essentially have monopoly powers permitted at LHR they will never have to truly compete.
What is telling is that BA have totally failed to use their position to dominate the regional loco market.
Anyway, if I was to dump an airline for one or two failures of service I would never fly anywhere. One has to be pragmatic and pay as little as possible for your ticket when you do use them.
Would have been interested in what a judge had to say about this one, the problem is there is essential information missing and only BA could provide it. I suspect that would be difficult if not impossible to achieve.
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What is telling is that BA have totally failed to use their position to dominate the regional loco market.
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Anyway, if I was to dump an airline for one or two failures of service I would never fly anywhere.
This is the most serious, but ther have been quite a lot in the past 4 years, I just can't be bothered to list them.
BTW, as a frequent flyer, I cannot say 'never again', just that I will avoid the company when there is an alternative, which places the company beneath Ryanair in my potential list of carriers.
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I am a more satisfied customer of Ryanair than I am of BA, partly because when I book the latter for inter-continental travel I fly Club World and, considering what I'm paying, I legitimately expect a different kind of service (expectations which, let's not forget, BA's own advertising encourages).
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How much squealing do you think there'd have been about unfair competition if BA had tried to do that?
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Flogged off to a venture capitalist, IIRC, for considerably less than it returned, when was subsequently sold on to easyJet.
How did Deutsche BA and Air Liberte perform?
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Aaah the joys of spin!
May 2002 - easyJet acquired Go for £374M
Profit to 3i after 11 months = 240% of purchase price, nice work if you can get it.
Please re-read read my post carefully, for this is what I was saying.
Air Lib - attempt to enter the French regional market, DBA, attempt to enter the German regional market.
DBA eventually became part of Air Berlin, German loco.
Scumbag didn't limit his definition of 'regions', so although I understand these examples are a bit embarrassing, I reckon they are fair inclusions in a debate around Scumbag's assertion.
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The only thing embarassing is your attempt to continue slating BA by playing fast and loose with the facts.
Nice work indeed, except BA could never get that as Easy wouldn't pay £374M to BA and BA wouldn't sell directly to Easy, so suggesting that BA could have achieved that sale price is pure wishful thinking. That is still not the point. O'Rileys assertion was that BA failed miserably in the loco market when forced to compete on a level playing field. The reality is that when BA went in on a level playing field with Go they did very well. The fact that the chose to divest themselves of the business and the sale price they achieved is irrelevant to his assertion.
Regional market. Not regional loco market. Whether or not O'Riley intended to include Europe in his statement, he specifically stated 'regional loco'. Air Lib and DBA were not loco airlines, nor were they intended to compete against European locos as they did not exist at that stage. Their competitors were national full service airlines.
What happened to DBA after BA sold it is neither here nor there. That would be rather like claiming Aer Lingus was a no-frills airline in 2001 because thats what it was after Willie Walsh left.
June 2001 - BA sold Go to 3i for £110M
May 2002 - easyJet acquired Go for £374M
Profit to 3i after 11 months = 240% of purchase price, nice work if you can get it.
May 2002 - easyJet acquired Go for £374M
Profit to 3i after 11 months = 240% of purchase price, nice work if you can get it.
Air Lib - attempt to enter the French regional market, DBA, attempt to enter the German regional market.
DBA eventually became part of Air Berlin, German loco.
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O'Rileys assertion was that BA failed miserably in the loco market when forced to compete on a level playing field. The reality is that when BA went in on a level playing field with Go they did very well. The fact that the chose to divest themselves of the business and the sale price they achieved is irrelevant to his assertion.
What they did offer the flying public was a choice. Indifferent BA service at BA prices or Indifferent BA service at LoCo prices. Guess which they prefered.
Air Lib and DBA was just BA's attempt to play on someone elses turf.
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Indifferent BA service at BA prices or Indifferent BA service at LoCo prices. Guess which they prefered.
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Did you ever fly on Go? Or are you just jumping on the BA-bashing bandwagon because it seems like the fun thing to do?
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F3G
Glad things got sorted with your client.
However could you confirm for me exactly what it is you reckon BA have done wrong here please. You initially complain about the flight being cancelled, which was out of their control and due to weather conditions affecting every carrier into LHR that day. Then that they couldnt get you onto a Luftie flight, again outside of their control. They(BA) then put you on the next flight they operate.
The only issue of contention is the HOTAC, which is confusing as I thought this was an entitlement in such a situation.
With regards the GO situation, everyone sees it as a screw up by BA(hey thats always been a fashionable view) but not seen as a screw up by EASY. They could have bought GO then for a 3rd of the price they eventually paid for it less than a year later, a loss of 240% to easyjet then surely?! And to reiterate what CM says, GO gave back substantially more than was put into it.
Glad things got sorted with your client.
However could you confirm for me exactly what it is you reckon BA have done wrong here please. You initially complain about the flight being cancelled, which was out of their control and due to weather conditions affecting every carrier into LHR that day. Then that they couldnt get you onto a Luftie flight, again outside of their control. They(BA) then put you on the next flight they operate.
The only issue of contention is the HOTAC, which is confusing as I thought this was an entitlement in such a situation.
With regards the GO situation, everyone sees it as a screw up by BA(hey thats always been a fashionable view) but not seen as a screw up by EASY. They could have bought GO then for a 3rd of the price they eventually paid for it less than a year later, a loss of 240% to easyjet then surely?! And to reiterate what CM says, GO gave back substantially more than was put into it.
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Go was, in my opinion, a good airline with a decent brand. And, yes, I did use them (after all, Stansted is my local airport). I did rue the day Go turned orange.
It would have made more sense for the BA "masterbrand" to have given up on any attempt to compete against "low cost" airlines - especially BA flights from Heathrow - as its cost base is so high, for it to focus its European operation on business travel and for it to have kept Go as its "no frills" arm.
This way, the confusion between BA short-haul as a "high quality/high price" operation which also happens to offer some competitively-priced (i.e., cheap) fares could have been avoided; Terminal 5 could have remained less congested for longer (with perhaps the possibility that BA's entire Heathrow operation could have been located there); and the BA group could today have a very significant presence at Stansted.
At one point, when investigating a merger with KLM, BA seemed to be thinking along similar lines, in the sense that direct flights to intercontinental destinations from London would be sold at a premium, whilst itineraries involving connecting flights from all over the UK to Amsterdam and then onward would sell for less, thus freeing up capacity at Heathrow especially.
I'll admit these aren't well thought-through ideas and that I have no particular qualification in airline economics!
It would have made more sense for the BA "masterbrand" to have given up on any attempt to compete against "low cost" airlines - especially BA flights from Heathrow - as its cost base is so high, for it to focus its European operation on business travel and for it to have kept Go as its "no frills" arm.
This way, the confusion between BA short-haul as a "high quality/high price" operation which also happens to offer some competitively-priced (i.e., cheap) fares could have been avoided; Terminal 5 could have remained less congested for longer (with perhaps the possibility that BA's entire Heathrow operation could have been located there); and the BA group could today have a very significant presence at Stansted.
At one point, when investigating a merger with KLM, BA seemed to be thinking along similar lines, in the sense that direct flights to intercontinental destinations from London would be sold at a premium, whilst itineraries involving connecting flights from all over the UK to Amsterdam and then onward would sell for less, thus freeing up capacity at Heathrow especially.
I'll admit these aren't well thought-through ideas and that I have no particular qualification in airline economics!
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They could have bought GO then for a 3rd of the price they eventually paid for it less than a year later, a loss of 240% to easyjet then surely?!
Easyjet could have developed those routes on their own at less the cost of buying Go.
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Desert Diner, not disputing that at all. And your post proves my point the deal could have been better done a year earlier for less money by easyjet. If said 'conventional minded management' were either in place or held more influence in Stelios' court at that time.