Heathrow T5
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
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Got nothing but praise for T5, is head and shoulders above the rest of the Heathrow experience. Noticeable that most of the people bitching on here live nowhere near London. As my local airport of choice again, I am well impressed.
Paxing All Over The World
SOE I do respect your experience and knowledge of EGLL but, in the two small visits I have made (one drop off, one collection) I found half a dozen points in which it failed and BIG points too. Not sure when I will pax through it as I only rarely travel for work these days.
I am not convinced. Certainly as the newest major terminal in the world, it ought to have been Number 1 without any effort and everyone is agreed that it is not. For it was not just the implementation that failed.
I am not convinced. Certainly as the newest major terminal in the world, it ought to have been Number 1 without any effort and everyone is agreed that it is not. For it was not just the implementation that failed.
the lunatic fringe
Join Date: May 2001
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T5 is, and was, and always will be, constrained by the site.
It is squeezed in between the M25 to the west, the two parallel runways to the north and south, and the rest of Heathrow to the east. That area constraint means that to create space, the architect has had to go vertical rather than horizontal.
The upshot of that is you get allot of elevators and escalators. It also means you have to have satellites, and so you need trains to get you to them.
Given those constraints it was never going to be some epic space like Beijing.
However it would be nice if the staffing at security was better, if the signs were less confusing, and the trains.. well more trains. It would be nice if the BAA did that.
It is squeezed in between the M25 to the west, the two parallel runways to the north and south, and the rest of Heathrow to the east. That area constraint means that to create space, the architect has had to go vertical rather than horizontal.
The upshot of that is you get allot of elevators and escalators. It also means you have to have satellites, and so you need trains to get you to them.
Given those constraints it was never going to be some epic space like Beijing.
However it would be nice if the staffing at security was better, if the signs were less confusing, and the trains.. well more trains. It would be nice if the BAA did that.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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The service delivery is inconsistent.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Got nothing but praise for T5, is head and shoulders above the rest of the Heathrow experience. Noticeable that most of the people bitching on here live nowhere near London. As my local airport of choice again, I am well impressed.
o Heathrow, as you regularly remind us, is supposed to BA's hub airport of choice, not just a provincial airport. And the volume of transfer passengers is one of the main reasons put forward for more expansion at Heathrow. So if T5 isn't serving non-Londoners well, that should be a concern (if not to you, at least to the owners). If you'd had to transfer to a domestic flight at T5 and found it little better time or convenience-wise than the schlep from T4 to T1, you'd be "bitching" too.
o T5 is indeed better than the rest of Heathrow, but that's not much of an achievement, is it ? Shouldn't Heathrow be measuring itself against the competition ?
o As for most of the detractors being not from London, here's the breakdown:
Newcastle
The Med
Zurich
Edinburgh
Bangkok
N Spain
London
Hertfordshire
SE England
London
Essex
Middlesex
uk
UK
In terms of proximity to London, I'd call that about 50/50 ?
13Alpha
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Heathrow has always struggled to connect passengers, even BA were split between T1 and T4. The massive opposition to Terminal 4 took years before that increase in capacity was permitted. People said the sky would fall in if a fourth terminal was built.
Then it was many more years before a fifth terminal was built on the site of a sewage works...... People said the world would end if a fifth terminal was built. It very nearly did as on day one it went badly wrong due to a major balls up by BA and BAA. However now it generally works really well and T5 to T5 Flight Connections are a major improvement.
My point is that these improvements are years late because of vocal opposition from a myriad of sources. No one is suggesting we dismantle T4, indeed the T4 experience is much improved and will get better when the redevelopments are complete. Also now it's up, no one is suggesting we dismantle T5. Again it has been a major improvement for passengers. IF LHR is permitted a third runway and a FIFTH terminal, remember T2 and T1 are going to become Heathrow East, then the passenger experience would improve still. I passionately believe that part of the deal should be that some of the new capacity MUST be used to reconnect LHR to some of the airports it no longer serves, like Inverness, Jersey, Guernsey and all.
Then it was many more years before a fifth terminal was built on the site of a sewage works...... People said the world would end if a fifth terminal was built. It very nearly did as on day one it went badly wrong due to a major balls up by BA and BAA. However now it generally works really well and T5 to T5 Flight Connections are a major improvement.
My point is that these improvements are years late because of vocal opposition from a myriad of sources. No one is suggesting we dismantle T4, indeed the T4 experience is much improved and will get better when the redevelopments are complete. Also now it's up, no one is suggesting we dismantle T5. Again it has been a major improvement for passengers. IF LHR is permitted a third runway and a FIFTH terminal, remember T2 and T1 are going to become Heathrow East, then the passenger experience would improve still. I passionately believe that part of the deal should be that some of the new capacity MUST be used to reconnect LHR to some of the airports it no longer serves, like Inverness, Jersey, Guernsey and all.
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13 Alpha makes some good points.
T5 was mean to improve the experience for transfer passengers , not act purely as a local airport.
You will find that CDG terminal 2 is pretty convenient if arriving by taxi or private car, but much less so if interlining from say 2D to 2F.
The T4 experience is okay (when you get there) at the moment, because it is working way under capacity, even so BAA does not deliver a proper fast track service, diverting people from the non fast track queue to fast track meaning that the time in both is similar; if you have paid fr a premium ticket, this is simply ridiculous.
My experience of T5 so far is limited one arrival and one departure.
The arrival was okay, but the departure (at peak hours) was dreadful and on that basis, I cannot agree that T5 is satisfactory, even our tiny little airport in Malta does better in summer, when overloaded with tourists.
In my experience, Zurich is the gold standard.
Trains to the E gates leave every 3 minutes (and when the Swiss say 3 minutes they mean and deliver 3 minutes), security is efficient and pleasant, with proactive queue management and a fast track channel that is policed effectively and offers a fast track service.
In short, even when busy, the airport is pretty stress free and painless.
Why can't the UK deliver a similar experience?
I dread to think how much revenue has been lost to british airlines with the awful experience at the London airports.
T5 was mean to improve the experience for transfer passengers , not act purely as a local airport.
You will find that CDG terminal 2 is pretty convenient if arriving by taxi or private car, but much less so if interlining from say 2D to 2F.
The T4 experience is okay (when you get there) at the moment, because it is working way under capacity, even so BAA does not deliver a proper fast track service, diverting people from the non fast track queue to fast track meaning that the time in both is similar; if you have paid fr a premium ticket, this is simply ridiculous.
My experience of T5 so far is limited one arrival and one departure.
The arrival was okay, but the departure (at peak hours) was dreadful and on that basis, I cannot agree that T5 is satisfactory, even our tiny little airport in Malta does better in summer, when overloaded with tourists.
In my experience, Zurich is the gold standard.
Trains to the E gates leave every 3 minutes (and when the Swiss say 3 minutes they mean and deliver 3 minutes), security is efficient and pleasant, with proactive queue management and a fast track channel that is policed effectively and offers a fast track service.
In short, even when busy, the airport is pretty stress free and painless.
Why can't the UK deliver a similar experience?
I dread to think how much revenue has been lost to british airlines with the awful experience at the London airports.
You can't get away from the fact that T5 appears to have been done on the cheap. Otherwise, why so few moving walkways? T4 managed them.....
Paxing All Over The World
When they built the new LTN terminal in 1999 (I think) they also decided not to bother with moving walkways and only a few escalators. That site, too, was shoe-horned in to an old spot (to save/maximise money?) and it shows. They had more space to play with but did not use it, money I'm sure, but disappointing.
Since they built that terminal, with it's inadequate drop off/set down and expensive parking, congested access roads (there is only one single-carriageway road in and out to the terminal) it's small indicator displays (of the vertical flat panel type criticised at T5) I have said that the designers and managers of LTN had learnt too many tricks from BAA. What was a lovely regional airport is now an awkward one. Just like STN for that matter.
Since they built that terminal, with it's inadequate drop off/set down and expensive parking, congested access roads (there is only one single-carriageway road in and out to the terminal) it's small indicator displays (of the vertical flat panel type criticised at T5) I have said that the designers and managers of LTN had learnt too many tricks from BAA. What was a lovely regional airport is now an awkward one. Just like STN for that matter.
Join Date: May 2008
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T5 seems compressed - too many levels and not enough width (any regular travellers through T5B should have figured out it's easier to use the lifts). Though I believe this is due to planning restrictions.
But in contrast to other LHR terminals and a number of other airports the time through security is consistent, and it's easy enough to quickly navigate your way to the lounge / gates, even if you have to pass a few shops.
But in contrast to other LHR terminals and a number of other airports the time through security is consistent, and it's easy enough to quickly navigate your way to the lounge / gates, even if you have to pass a few shops.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
I, for one, am happy that they've settled for (and delivered) "pretty good all round", and "much better than the rest of Heathrow".
Trains to the E gates leave every 3 minutes (and when the Swiss say 3 minutes they mean and deliver 3 minutes), security is efficient and pleasant, with proactive queue management and a fast track channel that is policed effectively and offers a fast track service.
In short, even when busy, the airport is pretty stress free and painless.
In short, even when busy, the airport is pretty stress free and painless.
Never mind. In the architecture world nowadays the various awards for architecture get handed out on completion of construction, before any operational issues become apparent. So no worries there.
Paxing All Over The World
WHBM
They certainly do. One building that I have to work in a couple of times a month is another simple example:
When the design was finalised, a 'blueprint' was proudly displayed in the old building. Myself and others pointed out several flaws that would make the daily use of the building irritating and that could have been changed if anyone had asked.
Yea, verily and so it came to pass.
Just inside the door is a plaque for an award to the architect. I'm glad that I have never met him.
Never mind. In the architecture world nowadays the various awards for architecture get handed out on completion of construction, before any operational issues become apparent. So no worries there.
When the design was finalised, a 'blueprint' was proudly displayed in the old building. Myself and others pointed out several flaws that would make the daily use of the building irritating and that could have been changed if anyone had asked.
Yea, verily and so it came to pass.
Just inside the door is a plaque for an award to the architect. I'm glad that I have never met him.
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Well mine was over 20 mins in the fast track queue and then having to ditch the fast track queue and go into a nother.
Pathetic.
Pathetic.
Snap.
It's rubbish. Fast Track means nothing there.
Plus the stupid hand driers in the toilets. No way can you dry your face in them. Roller towels are too expensive for BAA, I suppose....
