What IS the accepted security 'pat down' search pattern?
The best security I've seen in 67 flights this year has to be Phoenix. Don't put your bag down - you'll be moving so fast you hardly have time to pick it up! Friendly, and efficient and not the miseries that Heathrow and Frankfurt have. I rate Arlanda and Nice too. At the bottom of the list, Heathrow, Frankfurt and Copenhagen.
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Interesting, while searching for something totally unrelated, I found the following reaction to an earlier comment of mine regarding the illegality of pat-down and bag searches by civilians, as implemented at many airports across the EU: (please excuse the grammar, I'm quoting verbatim)
I take that to mean that by refusing an illegal search, everyone in the queue gets delayed. That's an interesting point of view: let's all agree to have our hard-earned rights violated blatantly and systematically, and be treated in a derogatory manner so that we can get to the duty free with five minutes to spare. Is it possible that there might be something just not quite right here? 
Apart from the difference between dealing with a trained professional acting within the limits of his authority for a well-defined and objectively beneficial purpose, and being confronted by an untrained, uneducated yob who is directed to do something under false pretenses? Yes, there is an "actual physical difference" (and congratulations on the spelling this time)
Lastly:
Such as? Would that be anywhere in Europe, Latin America, the Mediterranean basin, or perhaps one of the Middle Eastern countries I haven't visited this year (which leaves out Iran, the UAE, Egypt and Israel) in the about 90 sectors I have flown commercially so far since January? That's obviously not counting private or chartered flights.
As a matter of fact, I've found only two places where airport contractors made a deal out of it, one a small regional airport in Norway (I got an apology from the airport manager), the other CDG (where the employee in question initially thought I was racially motivated).
The most pleasant and reassuring security (not "security") check? Flying LY inbound TLV, as usual
I note that in certain countries outside Israel, if extended questioning or any physical search is deemed necessary, this is always done in the presence of the local police, who are summoned by LY "for your own protection". The plod will ask you if you are being treated correctly and will witness the entire interaction between you and LY's agents (whose level of training and professionalism is way beyond anything you will ever see anywhere else).
And that's all for now. I found the post entertaining enough, in all its blissful naïveté, that I had to respond. I do apologise to its author that I will no longer be able to read his reactions, amusing as they might be, but he has made it to my rather large killfile due to the quality of his discourse, poor expression, and lack of thoughtful opinions.
For you 5 minutes of protecting your dignity, for everyone else in the queue behind
Is there actually a physical difference between an airport cop searching you or your bag compared to the rent-a-cop by the machine.
Lastly:
Incidentally, try your ‘legal authority’ in some countries and you’ll have more than just a pat down
As a matter of fact, I've found only two places where airport contractors made a deal out of it, one a small regional airport in Norway (I got an apology from the airport manager), the other CDG (where the employee in question initially thought I was racially motivated).
The most pleasant and reassuring security (not "security") check? Flying LY inbound TLV, as usual
I note that in certain countries outside Israel, if extended questioning or any physical search is deemed necessary, this is always done in the presence of the local police, who are summoned by LY "for your own protection". The plod will ask you if you are being treated correctly and will witness the entire interaction between you and LY's agents (whose level of training and professionalism is way beyond anything you will ever see anywhere else).And that's all for now. I found the post entertaining enough, in all its blissful naïveté, that I had to respond. I do apologise to its author that I will no longer be able to read his reactions, amusing as they might be, but he has made it to my rather large killfile due to the quality of his discourse, poor expression, and lack of thoughtful opinions.
Bex
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I do have to ask the question (being the post creator) of what is so different about you that you feel above the security requirements of the airports? Does this mean you also argue that your human rights have been violated with retail security guards, traffic wardens, lollipop ladies/men, car park attendants etc. etc.?
When we travel by air we have to accept that each airport has it's own set of rules that we know we have to abide to (whether it suits us or not).
And as the post author, it's always interesting to see how quite often the point raised get's pushed aside for a bit of a slanging match, I assume (but will stand corrected) mostly between grown men.
When we travel by air we have to accept that each airport has it's own set of rules that we know we have to abide to (whether it suits us or not).
And as the post author, it's always interesting to see how quite often the point raised get's pushed aside for a bit of a slanging match, I assume (but will stand corrected) mostly between grown men.
FWOF,
There is something magic about PPRuNe because I was looking to contribute to this thread and suddenly it re-appeared on the top of the page.
I was in Berlin last Saturday and I did witnessed a similar pattern of search on a lady just this time it has her backside that was grabbed (sp?). I paid special attention because of your thread. I think the way security people behave in the airports is: "my way or the highway". So there are no limits on what how close the search might be.
No regarding prvate security in other areas, I would argue that a rent-a-cop in a mall or any other permises can be ignored with very little consequences. In the airport they can call the police give their version of the story and you are on your way to Cuba in no time.
Rwy in Sight
There is something magic about PPRuNe because I was looking to contribute to this thread and suddenly it re-appeared on the top of the page.
I was in Berlin last Saturday and I did witnessed a similar pattern of search on a lady just this time it has her backside that was grabbed (sp?). I paid special attention because of your thread. I think the way security people behave in the airports is: "my way or the highway". So there are no limits on what how close the search might be.
No regarding prvate security in other areas, I would argue that a rent-a-cop in a mall or any other permises can be ignored with very little consequences. In the airport they can call the police give their version of the story and you are on your way to Cuba in no time.
Rwy in Sight
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Just wanting to seek clarification.
I recently flew out of FRA.
I beeped due to my shoes and was directed for a pat search.
During the pat down the male staff member cupped his open hand onto my penis and testicles and lifted both up with a squeezing motion.
I complained that I felt this was not appropriate and asked for the manager.
Sadly this made the male staff member annoyed in which he leaned over me and asked if I want a cocktail in a sarcastic fashion as he got the supervisor.
Now rude behaviour aside, the staff there report that this "control" of my body was part of a normal search.
Here in Australia a direct cupped hand and squeeze to the penis and scrotum is considered beyond a standard search.
Is anyone able to direct me to documents or even just explain if this could be considered excessive?
My phone calls to Frankfurt Airport Security have been with little result and I am now wondering if I will have to go to a higher level to see if this was beyond the call of duty.
Any help is gratefully appreciated.
Regards
Dr George - Australia
I recently flew out of FRA.
I beeped due to my shoes and was directed for a pat search.
During the pat down the male staff member cupped his open hand onto my penis and testicles and lifted both up with a squeezing motion.
I complained that I felt this was not appropriate and asked for the manager.
Sadly this made the male staff member annoyed in which he leaned over me and asked if I want a cocktail in a sarcastic fashion as he got the supervisor.
Now rude behaviour aside, the staff there report that this "control" of my body was part of a normal search.
Here in Australia a direct cupped hand and squeeze to the penis and scrotum is considered beyond a standard search.
Is anyone able to direct me to documents or even just explain if this could be considered excessive?
My phone calls to Frankfurt Airport Security have been with little result and I am now wondering if I will have to go to a higher level to see if this was beyond the call of duty.
Any help is gratefully appreciated.
Regards
Dr George - Australia
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asked if I want a cocktail in a sarcastic fashion as he got the supervisor.
During the pat down the male staff member cupped his open hand onto my penis and testicles and lifted both up with a squeezing motion.
Last edited by craigbell; 4th Feb 2009 at 03:20.
