Ryanair landings
Fly Conventional Gear
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In other words ... there is no telling what about anything from a landing. 
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Tightslot
I don't see anything in your post that I could possibly construe as a personal attack.
I've seen my ATPL friends (one an ex SF C130 pilot, now flying 320's for a large UK carrier, who's blushes I shall spare) who haven't flown GA sized aircraft for years, try to land my Crusader (light twin 2500kg MTOW) and flare ridiculously high while leaving just enough power dialled in to keep us flying ten feet off the runway
As I have indicated, motor skills, muscle memory and perception, at the point of arrival they subconsciously reverted to their airliner technique. I am sure they could have as much fun with me in a 737. The physiology behind it is all fairly basic stuff, not a great black art far from the understanding of mortals.
Slim
I wrote, and you quoted "if", and I assure you it is very much an "if", not an indictment.
I also wrote "methinks thou dost protest too much" as a comment of some who bite too hard on a non pilots casual comment, as I have read from time to time.
As I further commented, there is a difference between a firm landing and a carrier deck one, would you not agree? I would suggest that a well travelled intelligent individual would have established enough memory and perception of many landings, to recognise if one may have been harder than the others ? I've travelled commercially for a decade for hundreds of thousands of miles a year, and there have been two landings only in that time that have made me think, "they must have broken something", but then I rarely travel with locos, so I have no basis for comparison and cannot help there.
In the words of Tight Slot, please do not construe this as any kind of personal attack, its meant to be food for thought.
I don't see anything in your post that I could possibly construe as a personal attack.
I've seen my ATPL friends (one an ex SF C130 pilot, now flying 320's for a large UK carrier, who's blushes I shall spare) who haven't flown GA sized aircraft for years, try to land my Crusader (light twin 2500kg MTOW) and flare ridiculously high while leaving just enough power dialled in to keep us flying ten feet off the runway
As I have indicated, motor skills, muscle memory and perception, at the point of arrival they subconsciously reverted to their airliner technique. I am sure they could have as much fun with me in a 737. The physiology behind it is all fairly basic stuff, not a great black art far from the understanding of mortals.Slim
I wrote, and you quoted "if", and I assure you it is very much an "if", not an indictment.
I also wrote "methinks thou dost protest too much" as a comment of some who bite too hard on a non pilots casual comment, as I have read from time to time.
As I further commented, there is a difference between a firm landing and a carrier deck one, would you not agree? I would suggest that a well travelled intelligent individual would have established enough memory and perception of many landings, to recognise if one may have been harder than the others ? I've travelled commercially for a decade for hundreds of thousands of miles a year, and there have been two landings only in that time that have made me think, "they must have broken something", but then I rarely travel with locos, so I have no basis for comparison and cannot help there.
In the words of Tight Slot, please do not construe this as any kind of personal attack, its meant to be food for thought.
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the responses, info and opinions.
I suppose the question I was trying to get the answer to was;
Why are (in my humble opinion, and in the opinion of a number of others) Ryanair landings often harder than those of other airlines?
and NOT
Why are some landings harder than others?
Again I am certainly not having a go at any one or criticising anyone's skill.
Dan
PS earlier point about tightness of the seatbelt taken.
I suppose the question I was trying to get the answer to was;
Why are (in my humble opinion, and in the opinion of a number of others) Ryanair landings often harder than those of other airlines?
and NOT
Why are some landings harder than others?
Again I am certainly not having a go at any one or criticising anyone's skill.
Dan
PS earlier point about tightness of the seatbelt taken.
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I would suggest that a well travelled intelligent individual would have established enough memory and perception of many landings, to recognise if one may have been harder than the others ?
Have you ever thought about the perceived difference in firmness of a landing depending on where you're sitting in the cabin? Any pitch change during touchdown can greatly influence the experience.
For instance, if the aircraft starts a pitch down just before touchdown this will be experienced by the pilots as a reduction in G, but by passengers and FAs in the rear as an increase in G. Add to that the G loading on impact, and what might feel as a smooth landing up front could be perceived as a firm landing in the back. This could also happen the other way around.
Do you always sit in the same seat row? Is this right above the wheels so the above mentioned effect is minimised? (But never cancelled, because on touchdown the point around which the aircraft pitches changes from an aerodynamic one based on the CofG to a fixed one based on the gear, which changes as the oleos compress). Do you have information about the CofG, the attitude and more importantly the rate of change of attitude of the aircraft on touchdown? Even the pilots don't have all that information readily to hand.
A 'hard' landing is one after which engineering inspection is required. That is the definition. Anything else is a firm landing and according to the quotes I supplied earlier is as Mr Boeing intended it to be. That doesn't mean that some are not more firm than we wanted them to be, but this has nothing to do with the operator of the aircraft, be it LoCo or Legacy.
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From my experience I would go along the line from PAXboy - don't ask me why but MOST pilots get their BETTER landings in BAD weather conditions rather than good.
Got to work harder, maybe?? Or pasengers expecting less and being more forgiving and therefore more likely to be "pleasantly surprised??" Dunno!
Also aircraft varients create their own difficulties - eg you show me any pilot who quotes he gets the same consistent quality landings in the 737-8 as he did in the Classics.... and I'll be able to point to a bald faced liar.
Most times - maybe. Good weeks/bad weeks - probably.
As consistent as the Classic - never!
Talking of pax perception only - previous comments about smooth Vs safe Vs ambient conditions spot on.
Got to work harder, maybe?? Or pasengers expecting less and being more forgiving and therefore more likely to be "pleasantly surprised??" Dunno!
Also aircraft varients create their own difficulties - eg you show me any pilot who quotes he gets the same consistent quality landings in the 737-8 as he did in the Classics.... and I'll be able to point to a bald faced liar.
Most times - maybe. Good weeks/bad weeks - probably.
As consistent as the Classic - never!
Talking of pax perception only - previous comments about smooth Vs safe Vs ambient conditions spot on.
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From my experience I would go along the line from PAXboy - don't ask me why but MOST pilots get their BETTER landings in BAD weather conditions rather than good.
Anyway, back to RYR: I've used them a lot and had - as with any airline - the whole range from greasers to 'arrivals'.
However, let's not forget that RYR operate a lot into relatively short fields, where a 'float' is not an option. Couple that with rain and you'd want the guys at the pointy end to put her down rather assertively. I'd rather have a little shudder on landing then mud on my shoes walking away from an overrun.....
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When I was studying my atpl subjects it was recommended that a firm landing was more desirable to a butterfly with sore feet. The theory being a firm landing will dissipate some of the energy and reduce the speed of the aircraft saving wear and tear on the brakes.
Have also been in a few autolands in pea-soup and the aircraft has firmly contacted the ground.
Have also been in a few autolands in pea-soup and the aircraft has firmly contacted the ground.
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Do dollys help to soften landings?
Being based in South Africa I am not able to comment on the quality of landings of various Northern hemishere LCCs.
Forgive me as I take the thread on a slightly different tack.
Does the landing gear configuration of an impact (???) on the average hardness of the landing?
Most short haul planes (eg. 737 family) have two wheels on a single axle on either side of the plane.
A330/340 have a dolly with 4 wheels on either side of the plane.
747s have two dollys on either side of the plane with the inner dollys slightly forward of the outer ones.
Surely the dollys, and especially double/offset dollys, help to reduce the "hardness" of the landing felt by the passengers?
Forgive me as I take the thread on a slightly different tack.
Does the landing gear configuration of an impact (???) on the average hardness of the landing?
Most short haul planes (eg. 737 family) have two wheels on a single axle on either side of the plane.
A330/340 have a dolly with 4 wheels on either side of the plane.
747s have two dollys on either side of the plane with the inner dollys slightly forward of the outer ones.
Surely the dollys, and especially double/offset dollys, help to reduce the "hardness" of the landing felt by the passengers?
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Does the landing gear configuration of an impact (???) on the average hardness of the landing?
Silky smooth landings are nice for the passengers (and my ego) but they're not the aim of the game.
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I am a 737-800 Driver. wıth not too many hours on type.
Sometimes they are real greasers, othertimes they are a good firm hit. From my limited time as a 737 pilot, not ryanair, İ have discovered that landing a 50+ tonne aircraft is a bit of a black art.
Now if any passengers, who are not pilots want to have a go at landing, lets see how well you do in the sim.
İ am sorry if you fly with me and its a bit hard, but at least it is safe, İ too want to get home to my famıly as well.
Sometimes they are real greasers, othertimes they are a good firm hit. From my limited time as a 737 pilot, not ryanair, İ have discovered that landing a 50+ tonne aircraft is a bit of a black art.
Now if any passengers, who are not pilots want to have a go at landing, lets see how well you do in the sim.
İ am sorry if you fly with me and its a bit hard, but at least it is safe, İ too want to get home to my famıly as well.
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To repeat:
B737NG landings are always hard or firm. You can land a 737-300/400 much softer. The reason lies in the oleos. They do not give at all. It's like driving a car with a very hard suspension over rough ground. Why they are like that I do not know, but you cannot do a soft landing in an NG. It is not Ryanair pilots as the poster is trying to make out....it is down to Mr. Boeing.
Why are (in my humble opinion, and in the opinion of a number of others) Ryanair landings often harder than those of other airlines?
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Don't qiute follow the logic there...."you've paid peanuts for your flight so we're going to slam the plane onto the runway....that will show'em!"
Anyway I'm not particularly complaining, and certainly not questioning the ability of the crew, just interested in this phenomenon.
Dan
Anyway I'm not particularly complaining, and certainly not questioning the ability of the crew, just interested in this phenomenon.
Dan
