Truly Disturbing passenger behaviour.

[sinala1]

This was indeed an EK flight...

[FHA]

The duelling couple should be banned from flying with that carrier again. I don't suppose they were though. Would it be too difficult to arrange?
Perhaps someone can enlighten me: I just fix the things for a living, replacing stolen lifejackets, slashed seat covers, graffittied tray tables etc.

[Rainboe]

Why? Is a couple not allowed to have a 'domestic' on an aeroplane at all? This was probably a little extreme, but the crew were right to be muted in their response. Some couples habitually behave like this. Deep down, they need it emotionally. When someone interferes, they can both turn quite savagely on the peacemaker who is then totally bewildered, and then becomes 'the victim', much to their astonishment. Right to move the victim of the couple elsewhere if they want that, but that cannot always be done. But if the crew went for restraints on the aggressor, they would find the victim may become quite savage in the protective response for the aggressor. I'm afraid the crew are in a cleft stick, whatever their response, some people will find it inadequate or incorrect. They both bought FC seats, and want to behave like that in public.....let them get on with it! As long as nobody gets hurt, and the victim of the pair is not asking for assistance or help, how they behave is up to them, within the constraints of the law and travelling with other people in close confines.

[airborne_artist]

Maybe it's my background (see my PPrune moniker), but I'd have told the CC quite clearly that if they didn't intervene, I would do so with reasonable force. I have no problem with others remaining detached, but I won't see a man hit a woman. End of story. Don't mind the flag, or anything else. Since the aircraft was UK bound, it would have been of interest to the UK police.

[sinala1]

Originally Posted by Tezzer

Well, it DID escalate, he assaulted her physically no less than 5 times, and verbally continuosly, for the rest of the flight. When she got up to go and find another seat he physically dragged her back, and replaced her luggage in the overhead bins. everytime he had a drink, it started again, often witnessed by the CC.

Originally Posted by Rainboe

They both bought FC seats, and want to behave like that in public.....let them get on with it!As long as nobody gets hurt, and the victim of the pair is not asking for assistance or help, how they behave is up to them, within the constraints of the law and travelling with other people in close confines.

Nope, absolutely not. Purchasing a First Class seat does not give you the right to be verbally abusive towards anyone. Cabin Crew have a responsibility to ensure the cabin environment is safe for everyone onboard. In this case, he was Physically abusive - which is a criminal offence onboard an aircraft - relationship problems or not. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 units of your preferred currency, no discussion entered into.

[Shack37]

tezzer,
Agree with you 100%, no way could you take any action here unless the crew requested your assistance, otherwise, you're the bad guy.

Airborne Artist,
I share your sentiments but, unfortunately in the world we live in today, the other guy would have ended up as the victim and you the one in handcuffs.

rwy in site, groundbum,
Very macho and very selfish. Let them get on with it, she obviously enjoys it, if he didn't smack her she'd find someone else who would. Bit like the old rape excuse, she was wearing a short skirt so she was asking for it.

Rainboe,
That must be the first "tongue in cheek" post I've read from you........at least I hope it was meant to be such.

Violent behaviour towards anyone, anywhere, is unacceptable and zero tolerance is the ONLY OPTION.

The airline flag or the cultural background of the CC should not come into the equation.

s37

[Rainboe]

Not tongue in cheek at all. Read the words. You need to be very very careful to intervene in a domestic or you become the aggressor and you may well end up in trouble. It sounds to me like they have a regular behaviour pattern of this sort of behaviour. The ONLY people who should intervene are the Police, or if they are not available, the crew acting officially. But very often the best hope is to hope it stops by itself. It is embarrassing to witness, but I think more people behave like this than one would think. Do gooders throwing themselves in and possibly over-reacting do not help in this situation. We are asked to pass an opinion- we don't actually know the degree of violence used, so it's difficult to assess how badly intervention was needed. But the lady could have asked for help privately and appeared not to. If she didn't want assistance, then there is your answer. The Police hate domestics more than anything else I'm told. It takes more care than an enthusiastic amateur throwing himself in and getting himself into more trouble than the troublemaker!

[ThreadBaron]

Aside from the presumed assaults, were this couple not doing enough to cause concern (in at least one other passenger) and disturbing, for a considerable while, at least two other passengers. Concentrate upon the disturbance they were causing. They've paid for their seats, but so have I and I would hope to have 'quiet enjoyment' of it.

What would have been the airlines response to a couple of rich, plootered, football supporters causing a disturbance in the front (or any) cabin?

[Shack37]

Rainboe, I believe that is pretty much what I said in my post and that is as it should be but I do think the CC should have tried to have a quiet word. Not long ago there was a thread about a woman being removed from a flight for refusing to stop her young son saying "bye bye aeroplane". This guy was allowed to thump his companion and nary a word said.
There has to be some consistency surely.

s37

[Juud]

Kind of sad, when a person you have always respected for his knowledge of civil aviation, suddenly comes out with a complete load of toss.
Rainboe, people tell me you know a hell of a lot about flying, cockpit procedures and strictly pilot related matters.
But it is obvious that you know Jack Sh!t about basic cabin ops.
Astonishing really.

[rigpiggy]

was there by chance a phone in the seatback, a call to the police , or a relative to phone the police would have been in order. then you sign the complaint, and d*ckhead goes off to jail.

[Rainboe]

Well there you go! The usual Pprune: One problem, 20 answers, and 25 different opinions! It would appear the crew on the day assessed the situation and decided on much the same course of action as I appear to have! But there you go- we are only getting one bystander's opinion and impression with inadequate description of actual events. So far we have opinions ranging from 1- don't do anything, to 2- jump in like the SAS, beat the beJasus out of the perpetrator.

Me- I keep the GD flight deck door locked! I prefer it that way! It takes a bit of maturity to know when not to intervene in a domestic. It takes a bit of experience to know when one of the proposed solutions is total rubbish (the previous post). Does he really think the Police will be interested in an alleged 'crime' that takes place in the air over foreign soil? I have seen the Police reaction to an in-air call! They know the complete difficulties in pressing ahead when the witnesses subsequently decide they are 'too busy' to follow through.

So come on you experts- you know the answer so much better, and so well! I've yet to see a more sensible solution than the crew provided! And don't forget the many, many cases where a bystander has intervened in a fight, only to be turned on by both parties to the fight, not infrequently with fatal results. Without training, better to keep out if possible. I see the crew on the day agreed!

[10secondsurvey]

I just cannot believe what I'm hearing. Guy bashes woman on plane at least five times. Cabin crew do jack sh*t, AND nobody bothers calling the police upon landing.

Apparently, it's quite ok, because they are in a relationship??? I don't care what culture or country the jerk came from. The plane landed in the UK the police should have been called. You want to come to the UK- then abide by OUR rules. Period. Anything else is just a pathetic cop out. Even if the crew did not want to intervene, they SHOULD STILL HAVE GOT THE POLICE UPON LANDING.

I'm not sure if this is normal on Emirates or not. Passengers bashing each other, and ccrew do nothing.

I'm really astounded that some folks here are actually trying to say it's OK.

[Rainboe]

You need to cool off. The Police would be unwilling to involve themselves in a domestic dispute that took place out of UK territory. The answers are not as simple as people find convenient to believe. We do not know the degree of violence used. Nobody can prove how hard the blows were. You can bet your life the victim would deny it. The victim had the chance to get away or ask for sanctuary or protection. She could have asked for the Police on landing. Did she? Do you really think she would follow through a complaint? Where would that leave the airline or the Police?

Don't be so naive! There's too many thoughtless Sir Galahads running around. Funny they are absent when there is an assault in the street. We all seem to know what we would have done.......after the event.

[10secondsurvey]

It's not about macho chivalry - which I guess is what is intended by the Sir Galahad comment. It's about acceptable behaviour in a confined public space. It would be as equally unacceptable if it was two guys.

Whatever the outcome, the police SHOULD have been informed. Many,many female (and male) victims of violent partner abuse, will never report anything. This is not acceptable behavious in an aircraft. Period.

And for the record, if I see anything similar in the street I do get involved.

I still cannot believe what I'm reading on this post, that "oh it's just a domestic, he can beat the sh*t out of her...let's not get involved...it's just a domestic". The ccrew in this instance were wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and no amount of lame excuses will help.

The police should have been informed, and THEY could judge whether to proceed. As it was, the unqualified ccrew decided to make that judgement themselves. No doubt in order to avoid adverse publicity for Emirates. Shameful.

[Rainboe]

Oh get real! It's highly unlikely the Police could proceed, so they would not be interested in attending! I can tell you, the Police would not attend. they would send a message to ask for confirmation that the lady wished to press charges before even bothering! Hell, you can't even get them to attend for a burglary these days!

Some of you don't know how the world works. Can you really see this woman proceeding with a complaint? This is the way they behave. They have an abusive relationship, that's how they behave, but it is their relationship. Did she ask anyone for help? Any interjection and she would be the first to say 'bugger off and mind your own business'. She is staying with him because she wants to. It is no business of yours to intervene unless she asked for help. If the Police met the plane, she would say she was not pressing charges, and everything would fall flat, just as the Police would know it would, so they wouldn't bother in the first place. She had several opportunities to ask for help or to ask for protection once on the ground. She was quite happy to go tripping off the plane with him. Why are you so intent on spoiling what for them is evidently a normal pattern of behaviour once they both start drinking? Sometimes, you just have to understand it is none of your business!

Too many Boy Scouts and 'Gentlemen' running round sticking their nose in where it's plainly not wanted, by any of the parties involved!

[iain8867]

I've been reading these posts and can not believe what I am reading!

Firstly any altercation in the cabin of the aircraft should have been dealt with by the crew. Whether it be an argument with raised voices or physical violence. All they had to do was point out that the behaviour was unacceptable and is not to continue.

If it does continue then you split them up, if they then turn abusive toward the crew, the police are called. If it is a private matter in a private room or taken away from the rest of the passengers and crew then it stays private. But the crew have a responsibility to the rest of the passengers as well!

The police will attend, as long as they have the man power and I have never yet heard that excuse at an airport, any aircraft that requests their presence. If the passengers have been drinking on board the aircraft and other passengers have seen them taking pills, as long as they are willing to give a statement the police will take this into consideration too.

All in all I believe the crew were wrong not to nip this in the bud by at least informing them that if their behaviour did not improve then the police would be called to meet the aircraft. That is quite often all that is required. Sometimes when this is used the other passenger will request help from the crew.

[Rainboe]

This wasn't a Luton charter flight bringing beerheads back from Alicante. Do I understand these were full fares and a First Class EK cabin? How many airlines call the Police on their full fare First Class passengers (leaving aside the famous United(?) FC defecation incident!)? Rod Stewart and his entourage in their wild days destroyed a BA FC cabin on an LAX flight. Like it or not, the rules are different there.

I'm still looking for a victim in this. Was the lady a 'victim'? Is she complaining? Maybe she has her own reasons for staying in that relationship- stretching the time out for a good settlement out of the brute maybe. But she appears to have not required any help or made any request for assistance. It's her business, not nosy bystanders itching to step in and give the bounder a bloody nose. She sets the pace, and she did not want help, and I respect the crew- they took their lead from her.

[airborne_artist]

Airborne Artist,
I share your sentiments but, unfortunately in the world we live in today, the other guy would have ended up as the victim and you the one in handcuffs.

I said nothing about beating the guy up, simply applying suitable restraint to prevent anything further.

I've conducted three successful citizen's arrests - once after a raid on Harrods, another in an un-armed bank robbery, and the third after a mate and I were assaulted. So far I'm 3-0 up. I've three letters of thanks from the Met Police, and two judges' commendations.

Who's next?

[barry lloyd]

Sounds like a case for The Jeremy Kyle Show!
Many years ago, one of my family members was in the police. He said that they hated attending 'domestics' for all the reasons given previously. The usual result is that the couple concerned invariably make up very quickly afterwards, and indeed this appears to have been the case here.
Had tezzer, (and/or someone else) intervened it would almost certainly have resulted in a fracas, given the amount of alcohol and unidentified tablets they had apparently consumed. This in turn would likely have resulted in a diversion to a third country, with all the problems this brings.
EK employs multi-ethnic, multi-cultural cabin crew (perhaps to a greater extent than any other major carrier), and this may have been a factor in their decision not to intervene in this case. Oh, and before anyone kicks off, I see this as a positive in general terms, but when a difficult situation such as this occurs, it may be a disadvantage.
Many years ago, I was at the front end on a domestic flight in the US (ID upgrade), and a similar event took place. The guy sitting next to me was quite concerned, and called a member of the CC. They said they were aware of the problem, but had been instructed not to intervene, unless it endangered other passengers, which it did not.
A very unpleasant experience for tezzer. My flight was 2.5 hours - his was much longer. Oh, and on arrival in MIA, the offending couple walked (or more accurately staggered) down the steps (yes, it was that long ago), hand in hand, towards baggage reclaim.