Flybe Embaer 145 Aircraft Trim ??
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Maude Charlee is correct. As a dispatcher, I do not have access to the reservations system to see who has paid what for their ticket. All I will know is that for the aircraft to be in trim and fly safely, I need to move a certain number of people from one area of the cabin to another. It could be one person, it could be 10 or more, depending on the size of the aircraft and how bad the trim problem is.
On a 30 minute turnaround I simply do not have time to worry about who I am moving, I just have to make a quick decision and get the gate staff or cabin crew to action it while I produce my loadsheet. I will try not to separate people I know are travelling together, and I will never move disabled passengers, who often have to have specific seats anyway. Apart from that I really don't consider anything else, and I will simply say to the gate staff or crew "I need to move some passengers for trim, can you please move row 4 to row 13" My only concern is the safety of the aircraft, and I'm sorry, but I really don't care who has paid what for their seat.
Brummy, if the dispatcher needed to move one person, they would look for a passenger travelling alone to move, rather than move one of a couple or one of a family. If you were the first single passenger on the list, then you would have been the one chosen to be moved. Who you are or what you paid doesn't come into it I'm afraid - the seats are all the same so what's your problem? 4a might be your favourite seat, but I'm sure it's no different to any another seat on the aircraft. At the end of the day, safety has to come first.
I find that passengers being allowed to chose their own seats actually causes more trim problems than the old days when all seats were assigned at check in. Then if you had a flight with a low booked load you could block seats off in advance and thus ensure no-one had to be moved on board. Unfortunately the people who come up with these clever ideas about passengers selecting their own seats don't think about the effect this might have on the aircraft trim... It's just another way to save or make money and that's all that seems to matter these days.
On a 30 minute turnaround I simply do not have time to worry about who I am moving, I just have to make a quick decision and get the gate staff or cabin crew to action it while I produce my loadsheet. I will try not to separate people I know are travelling together, and I will never move disabled passengers, who often have to have specific seats anyway. Apart from that I really don't consider anything else, and I will simply say to the gate staff or crew "I need to move some passengers for trim, can you please move row 4 to row 13" My only concern is the safety of the aircraft, and I'm sorry, but I really don't care who has paid what for their seat.
Brummy, if the dispatcher needed to move one person, they would look for a passenger travelling alone to move, rather than move one of a couple or one of a family. If you were the first single passenger on the list, then you would have been the one chosen to be moved. Who you are or what you paid doesn't come into it I'm afraid - the seats are all the same so what's your problem? 4a might be your favourite seat, but I'm sure it's no different to any another seat on the aircraft. At the end of the day, safety has to come first.
I find that passengers being allowed to chose their own seats actually causes more trim problems than the old days when all seats were assigned at check in. Then if you had a flight with a low booked load you could block seats off in advance and thus ensure no-one had to be moved on board. Unfortunately the people who come up with these clever ideas about passengers selecting their own seats don't think about the effect this might have on the aircraft trim... It's just another way to save or make money and that's all that seems to matter these days.
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Brummy, if the dispatcher needed to move one person, they would look for a passenger travelling alone to move, rather than move one of a couple or one of a family. If you were the first single passenger on the list, then you would have been the one chosen to be moved. Who you are or what you paid doesn't come into it I'm afraid - the seats are all the same so what's your problem? 4a might be your favourite seat, but I'm sure it's no different to any another seat on the aircraft. At the end of the day, safety has to come first.
I'm afraid that the seats are not all the same - I paid extra to choose a single seat on my own for my comfort and was initially asked to move to 13c alongside a rather large pax in less than spacious double seating. BUT my main reason for selecting my seat is that sadly whilst I fly most weeks I am also a nervous flyer. I feel much better sitting near to the emergency exits and find that the movement of the aircraft towards the front is far less intrusive than at the rear. I know these are my issues, and I also know the facts about flight safety, but I choose to pay to sit near the front as part of my method of dealing with my irrational fear of flying. So being sat in the back row nowhere near an exit (I guess I may be mildly claustrophobic too) is my idea of hell - and my state of nervousness during the flight was influenced by this. I accept this is my problem, but Flybe are quite happy to take my money when I try to find a strategy to deal with it.
I would also agree with previous comments that customer service is a factor in choosing who to fly with. And that those airlines that do implement systems to recognise those of us who paid £600 a shot to fly short haul in Europe and then stump up extra to choose a specific seat will reap the benefits of being a preferred choice. I have no issue with the despatcher who does not have the info available, but good customer service does bring customer loyalty. It sounds as if you have the information on who is disabled and who is travelling in a group, therefore if Flybe printed a marker on the passenger list that indicated to you which pax they would prefer not to be moved unless necessary it might just improve the pax experience for those who paid more to choose a specific seat. Remember that Flybe choose to sell the option for this.
However I fully agree that safety comes first, and repeat that I did not complain, moan or believe that I am entitled to preferential treatment.
Last edited by BrummyGit; 29th Oct 2007 at 21:43. Reason: rubbish spelling
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I fly the EMB 135,140 and 145 in the USA. The aircraft is very pitch sensitive and it is a very common occurance to have to ask passengers to move seats after they have boarded, usually to offset some extra cargo that has been loaded or because somebody has screwed up the figures. Just moving one or two passengers can really make a difference to weight and balance. This aircraft is a beast to get off of the ground if it has been loaded incorrectly and is nose-heavy. It also doesn't behave too well on landing, so if someone asks you to move seats, don't question it. They are asking you for a reason.
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I fly the EMB 135,140 and 145 in the USA. The aircraft is very pitch sensitive and it is a very common occurance to have to ask passengers to move seats after they have boarded, usually to offset some extra cargo that has been loaded or because somebody has screwed up the figures. Just moving one or two passengers can really make a difference to weight and balance. This aircraft is a beast to get off of the ground if it has been loaded incorrectly and is nose-heavy. It also doesn't behave too well on landing, so if someone asks you to move seats, don't question it. They are asking you for a reason.
Please let me repeat that I would never question being asked to move - it is obvious that you wouldn't ask without reason. Although I'm sure there are many pax that would.
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Brummy
I wasn't the person who moved you, so i can't explain why you specifically were chosen rather than someone in row 3 or row 5. It may have been that the person sitting in 3a was actually travelling with the person in 3b. Or as it seems you are a frequent traveller, maybe the crew recognised you and thought you wouldn't mind? As I said before, we really don't have the time to go into things that deeply, we just take the quickest and easiest option on the day to try and avoid a delay. And strange as it may sound, moving just one person can make the difference between the aircraft being in or out of trim. Generally speaking, the smaller the aircraft, the more trim sensitive it is.
With regards to the difference between BA and Flybe, I know that the two airlines use different computer systems, and it may well have been the case that the BA dispatcher could monitor their flight and block seats off during check in if the aircraft looked like going out of trim. With Flybe we don't have this option as we can't access the reservations and checkin system. All we get are the final figures at closure and only then can we see if the aircraft is going to trim or not. That's why we end up having to move people around at the last minute, especially if there is not much hold baggage or freight to move instead.
However I would also like to say that if you had been one of my passengers, and had politely explained to me your reasons for wanting to be sat at the front, I personally would probably have tried to move someone else instead, especially if there were other pax in the same row. I would always prefer to seat a nervous passenger somewhere they felt as comfortable as possible, rather than try and make their journey even more stressful.
Hopefully once flybe sort their catering weights and distribution out the problem will be resolved and you won't have to be moved again!
Hope this answers the rest of your questions.
I wasn't the person who moved you, so i can't explain why you specifically were chosen rather than someone in row 3 or row 5. It may have been that the person sitting in 3a was actually travelling with the person in 3b. Or as it seems you are a frequent traveller, maybe the crew recognised you and thought you wouldn't mind? As I said before, we really don't have the time to go into things that deeply, we just take the quickest and easiest option on the day to try and avoid a delay. And strange as it may sound, moving just one person can make the difference between the aircraft being in or out of trim. Generally speaking, the smaller the aircraft, the more trim sensitive it is.
With regards to the difference between BA and Flybe, I know that the two airlines use different computer systems, and it may well have been the case that the BA dispatcher could monitor their flight and block seats off during check in if the aircraft looked like going out of trim. With Flybe we don't have this option as we can't access the reservations and checkin system. All we get are the final figures at closure and only then can we see if the aircraft is going to trim or not. That's why we end up having to move people around at the last minute, especially if there is not much hold baggage or freight to move instead.
However I would also like to say that if you had been one of my passengers, and had politely explained to me your reasons for wanting to be sat at the front, I personally would probably have tried to move someone else instead, especially if there were other pax in the same row. I would always prefer to seat a nervous passenger somewhere they felt as comfortable as possible, rather than try and make their journey even more stressful.
Hopefully once flybe sort their catering weights and distribution out the problem will be resolved and you won't have to be moved again!
Hope this answers the rest of your questions.
Last edited by Dropline; 30th Oct 2007 at 08:39. Reason: Grammar!
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Dropline:
Thanks, you have indeed answered my questions very well. I did not question being moved as I understood it was for a reason and as you rightly guessed I travel frequently so it just made my journey a little more stressful rather than unbearable - therefore I didn't feel it justified.
I also learned more about the different IT systems in use today as I checked-in in Stuttgart this evening. The check-in agent had problems with her computer and told me that they were using the KLM check-in system. So now I know why you have such trouble joining some of the information together.
Thanks again
BG
Thanks, you have indeed answered my questions very well. I did not question being moved as I understood it was for a reason and as you rightly guessed I travel frequently so it just made my journey a little more stressful rather than unbearable - therefore I didn't feel it justified.
I also learned more about the different IT systems in use today as I checked-in in Stuttgart this evening. The check-in agent had problems with her computer and told me that they were using the KLM check-in system. So now I know why you have such trouble joining some of the information together.
Thanks again
BG
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I can confirm that when BA dispatched the Embraer 145 it was monitored to keep it in trim. The aircraft is very nose heavy and it was normal for seats to be blocked off at the front of the aircraft. If it was a flight with plenty of hold luggage not normally a problem as the only hold is at the rear of the aircraft. On a flight to Glasgow or Edinburgh with many pax only going for one day with no hold baggage that would be a instance when seat blocking would be used. If at close out flight out of trim only options are to move pax from front to back or to load ballast in rear hold.
The trim on this aircraft is so critical that moving one pax is often sufficient.
The trim on this aircraft is so critical that moving one pax is often sufficient.
