Seat allocation for children
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Pandora,
That is fine, but you are not always "on the ground" when this sort of problem arises. In reality you can only do so much. If a child will not keep its seat belt fastened and the guardians will not or cannot comply with the instruction then you can do one of two things. You can ensure compliance to the best of your ability and deal with the matter on arrival as is deemed fit, or you can force compliance. In reality you would be very "brave" to undertake the latter as a complaint of assault would have far greater consequences than the complaint that you had ( despite your best efforts ) failed to totally secure a cabin.
As I say common sense and compromise sometimes has to take precedence no matter what your feelings may be concerning parents or children. There are other circumstances where full compliance might not be achieved ( for example if a passenger was having an "attack" or seizure). Then it would be a case of securing as best you could and accepting the compromise due to circumstances. This situation might seem willful or avoidable but in a few cases the end result must be the same. If it were an adult refusing to comply you could bring action upon arrival. With a child the problem is slightly different but the action could still be brought upon the guardian. However the situation for you is still that you can only do your best within the bounds of reason and common sense.
That is fine, but you are not always "on the ground" when this sort of problem arises. In reality you can only do so much. If a child will not keep its seat belt fastened and the guardians will not or cannot comply with the instruction then you can do one of two things. You can ensure compliance to the best of your ability and deal with the matter on arrival as is deemed fit, or you can force compliance. In reality you would be very "brave" to undertake the latter as a complaint of assault would have far greater consequences than the complaint that you had ( despite your best efforts ) failed to totally secure a cabin.
As I say common sense and compromise sometimes has to take precedence no matter what your feelings may be concerning parents or children. There are other circumstances where full compliance might not be achieved ( for example if a passenger was having an "attack" or seizure). Then it would be a case of securing as best you could and accepting the compromise due to circumstances. This situation might seem willful or avoidable but in a few cases the end result must be the same. If it were an adult refusing to comply you could bring action upon arrival. With a child the problem is slightly different but the action could still be brought upon the guardian. However the situation for you is still that you can only do your best within the bounds of reason and common sense.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Bealzebub,
Most of the time its on landing when you cant secure the kid, if the parent dos'nt and wont comply, obviously i cant off-load, but i will take further action...i.e a dissruptive pax log!! At the end of the day its safety first, spoilt kid last!
Obviously if you have someone having an "attack" or a seizure then you do the best you can to secure them, but thats a completely different story because its a medical emergency, not some spoilt kid having a tantrum
Most of the time its on landing when you cant secure the kid, if the parent dos'nt and wont comply, obviously i cant off-load, but i will take further action...i.e a dissruptive pax log!! At the end of the day its safety first, spoilt kid last!
Obviously if you have someone having an "attack" or a seizure then you do the best you can to secure them, but thats a completely different story because its a medical emergency, not some spoilt kid having a tantrum
Paxing All Over The World
In the matter of making a small child sit in it's own allocated seat ... and the statement by TS that it was sometimes necessary to mix the rules when you are already long into the descent.
LHR ~ GVA on Swiss about ten years ago - the flight is seared into my brain. Daylight and good weather for a lunch time sector.
I was in 'C' on the Starboard side of three seats. I had the window. A well dressed woman was in the aisle and the infant, about four I think, was between us. Throughout the two hour flight, he was perfectly well behaved. Until it was time for seat belts ...
He kicked and screamed and crawled around the floor. I was astounded at the change in him, the child was two characters. The mother worked very hard to mollify him and the CC did their best. I helped to drag him off the floor and put him in the seat and two of us had to put the belt on to him.
For the last minutes of descent, through to the roll-out, his mother held him and tried to passify him and I held onto the buckle so that he could not release it. He screamed loudly throughout, thrashing around in the seat.
Once we were taxying in - the other child reappeared and he was calm and quiet. The mother was most apologetic but I said that I could see that she had done all that she could. The CC gave me a big Thank You.
Thus, I have no doubt that the action that senior CC may occasionally have to take, by allowing a child to be in a parental lap, is valid. The child's behaviour at departure and approach were utterly different and the hysteria could not have been anticipated. In this case, the law was followed but the noise and disruption to the whole flight was significant. If the child will not be restrained and the parents will not hold it down - then let it be in the aisle and take what's coming to it.
LHR ~ GVA on Swiss about ten years ago - the flight is seared into my brain. Daylight and good weather for a lunch time sector.
I was in 'C' on the Starboard side of three seats. I had the window. A well dressed woman was in the aisle and the infant, about four I think, was between us. Throughout the two hour flight, he was perfectly well behaved. Until it was time for seat belts ...
He kicked and screamed and crawled around the floor. I was astounded at the change in him, the child was two characters. The mother worked very hard to mollify him and the CC did their best. I helped to drag him off the floor and put him in the seat and two of us had to put the belt on to him.
For the last minutes of descent, through to the roll-out, his mother held him and tried to passify him and I held onto the buckle so that he could not release it. He screamed loudly throughout, thrashing around in the seat.
Once we were taxying in - the other child reappeared and he was calm and quiet. The mother was most apologetic but I said that I could see that she had done all that she could. The CC gave me a big Thank You.
Thus, I have no doubt that the action that senior CC may occasionally have to take, by allowing a child to be in a parental lap, is valid. The child's behaviour at departure and approach were utterly different and the hysteria could not have been anticipated. In this case, the law was followed but the noise and disruption to the whole flight was significant. If the child will not be restrained and the parents will not hold it down - then let it be in the aisle and take what's coming to it.
Gear_Down, if you were ever a parent (which I seriously doubt) I feel sorry for your kids. I was lucky, my kids enjoyed flying and never gave me any problems. I now have a grandson who is just over two years old. He is a dream. Very well behaved and never any trouble. However, I have no idea how he might react to a flight, especially in the descent when kids notoriously suffer ear ache and can, as a result, look for comfort from the parent(s). I don't dispute the rules, but I do most definitely dispute your attitude which for me clearly indicates that where children are concerned you haven't got the remotest clue.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Oh Dear, where have all these vitriolic SLF appeared from. After reading all the posts since my original support for Gear Down I find that I havn't changed my mind!! This is a common sense thing - its called safety and its for the childs benefit. I am SLF, a parent and a grandparent and I would far sooner have seen any of my lot strapped safely into a seat and screaming than take the chance of them bursting out of the supplementary belt if anything went wrong. What would you prefer? Your child screaming but safe or flying around the cabin if something did, unfortunately, go wrong. At what age and size do you accept that its not safe, 5 yrs old, 10, 15 ? Cabin Crew, and Flight Crew, have a hard enough time coping with the mirriad regulations that now seem mandatory. Think about it, you wouldnt want to be seated unsafely in an emergency situation would you, so why make your child do it.
Join Date: May 2007
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Avman - I am a parent of 4 and believe me I would never allow my child to behave in such a manner. There is no reason for your child to behave in such a manner. Why should youlet your child rule the parent. If the child will not sit down and act responsibly, then it should be reprimanded. Obviously you avman are one of those parents who lets your child rule you, and you couldnt give a sh*t about how your child behaves onboard an aircraft and just pull the wool over you eyes. Think it should be you who needs parenting classes.
