Pilots and Denied Boarding
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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Pilots and Denied Boarding
When checking-in for my last 3 flights I have been told that "there is a weight restriction on the flight. We have to wait until the plane lands and ask the pilot before any more passengers can be checked-in." How does the pilot decide how many passengers can fly? Although I was denied boading on 2 of the flights there were seats (I had colleagues on the same flights), so if weight restrictions are so severe why aren't passengers weighed with their luggage?
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Because they use standardised weights. I.e. Male = 90kgs, Female = 75kgs, hold baggage = 15kgs or weights to that effect. I'm sure someone will correct me on the weights though.
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The route was LCY-AMS, 07:40. I think the planes are Fokker 50.
If it is simply an average weight that is used then wouldn't the same number of people board every time? And couldn't ground staff make the same calculation? I'm only 70kg, but my boss is 120kg. Thats obviously a very big difference in weight - almost another passenger.
If it is simply an average weight that is used then wouldn't the same number of people board every time? And couldn't ground staff make the same calculation? I'm only 70kg, but my boss is 120kg. Thats obviously a very big difference in weight - almost another passenger.
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It’s nearly 40 years since I did a loadsheet – there may be other Ppruners who are more current …
As I remember it, you start with the aircraft empty weight, then add trip fuel. Your available payload depends upon whether the limiting factor for the flight will be max take-off weight, max landing weight or max zero fuel weight.
Most of the time, the available payload will allow you to fill all the seats with passengers who have a typical amount of baggage, and there will still be some left over for cargo. But not always. Weather and/or temperature might come into play. There may even be urgent cargo which has priority over passengers (‘aircraft on ground’ spares).
The decision on fuel load is the Captain’s, and he also has to sign off the loadsheet.
LCY’s very short runway is sure to bring these various limits into closer consideration.
Current ops professionals free to flame me if I’m talking nonsense.
As I remember it, you start with the aircraft empty weight, then add trip fuel. Your available payload depends upon whether the limiting factor for the flight will be max take-off weight, max landing weight or max zero fuel weight.
Most of the time, the available payload will allow you to fill all the seats with passengers who have a typical amount of baggage, and there will still be some left over for cargo. But not always. Weather and/or temperature might come into play. There may even be urgent cargo which has priority over passengers (‘aircraft on ground’ spares).
The decision on fuel load is the Captain’s, and he also has to sign off the loadsheet.
LCY’s very short runway is sure to bring these various limits into closer consideration.
Current ops professionals free to flame me if I’m talking nonsense.
...although I'm still not sure why passengers aren't weighed too!
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Hmm, and how are pax prioritized for being left behind (or being let on for that matter)? Is it similar to an oversold flight, or is it first come/first seated?
I'm taking this same route in February, but will be connecting from AMS beyond.
I'm taking this same route in February, but will be connecting from AMS beyond.
Weight-limited flights are de facto oversold flights - the baseline being the number of available seats which moves downwards rather than staying constant.
Priorities are applied in the same way as for classically oversold flights.
Priorities are applied in the same way as for classically oversold flights.
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Middle Seat - The priority at LCY seemed to be first come first served so the earlier you check in the less likely you are to get bumped. When I said I had been bumped off the previous flight I was asked if I had a loyalty card, so perhaps that can help to move you up the waiting list. I asked why so many people were on the waiting list (5 or 6 each time) and was told that it is because of internet check-ins. Some people check-in online and then don't turn up, so the seat is freed 15mins before take-off. The first time I was bumped there was only one other denied boarding (she bought her business card ticket on the morning of the flight, and they should have known at the time they were going to deny boarding. Even her gold card could not save her!). On the second occasion there were 2 other people. Obviously the other waiting list passengers were able to board. The airline's T&C say they will ask for volunteers first, but they don't. It was told by colleagues on the same flights that there were a few empty seats which is what led to my original question.
If you get bumped make sure you ask for the information leaflet. You will get automatic compensation, a food voucher and the airline will book you on the next flight. This is the minimum that EU regs demand. The compensation is determined by distance and delay. I wasn't told that I was entitled to a full refund plus the compensation, so I could have booked the next (almost empty) flight for 200GBP less and taken 125euros compensation.
My guess from reading the LCY forum is that the security restrictions have exacerbated this problem. Hand luggage is being checked-in so it gets weighed and then the flight weight limit is reached so passengers get bumped. Previously the hand luggage was not weighed so there should be some adjustment to the loadsheet calculations.
In future I will always try to check-in online...and fly with a different carrier. This seems to offer the best hope of getting the flight I booked.
If you get bumped make sure you ask for the information leaflet. You will get automatic compensation, a food voucher and the airline will book you on the next flight. This is the minimum that EU regs demand. The compensation is determined by distance and delay. I wasn't told that I was entitled to a full refund plus the compensation, so I could have booked the next (almost empty) flight for 200GBP less and taken 125euros compensation.
My guess from reading the LCY forum is that the security restrictions have exacerbated this problem. Hand luggage is being checked-in so it gets weighed and then the flight weight limit is reached so passengers get bumped. Previously the hand luggage was not weighed so there should be some adjustment to the loadsheet calculations.
In future I will always try to check-in online...and fly with a different carrier. This seems to offer the best hope of getting the flight I booked.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
SSK, spot on.
LCY is very sensitive to weight and temperature. As soon as that temp goes up then it gets tricky. (your take off performance is adversly affected, in essence, you have less thrust/power to use)
Also, depending on your destination, you may require more fuel than normal because of alternate requirements. Bring these two elements together and you have to reduce the take off weight (oops, mass, JAA land). You can't take less fuel so it's freight that is sacrificed. Whether the freight self loads or not it doesn't matter.
LCY is very sensitive to weight and temperature. As soon as that temp goes up then it gets tricky. (your take off performance is adversly affected, in essence, you have less thrust/power to use)
Also, depending on your destination, you may require more fuel than normal because of alternate requirements. Bring these two elements together and you have to reduce the take off weight (oops, mass, JAA land). You can't take less fuel so it's freight that is sacrificed. Whether the freight self loads or not it doesn't matter.
