Ryanair again (sorry)
Riding the Euro Gravy Plane
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Strasbourg
Slim_Slag
I don't hate RYR and there is nothing in any of my posts to suggest that I do. The term 'RYR haters' and 'RYR supporters club' were just convenient labelling terms for the two main groups of opinion. It's interesting that you pick up on this point more than other, more relevant, points I made.
I'll say again that I don't consider RYR to be a real airline, they fly point to point to cherry picked destinations. This is of absolutely no use to me what so ever, I need airlines with large route networks and quality backup services.
The legacy carriers seem to be a bit more forward thinking in their route planning as well, they regularly take huge hits on certain routes in order to strengthen sectors further down the line, this is especially important for someone like me living in provincial France away from a main hub. In recent years AusAir, LH and AF have all made significant efforts to pick up business from my locality with BA doing the same from FRA, I can get into these airlines networks with the first sector almost thrown in for free.
Like I said earlier I have nothing against RYR in the same way I don't have anything against McDonalds, National Express Coachlines, Brittany Ferries or the Manchester Bus Corporation. Their products are either unsuitable or I just don't like them.
I don't hate RYR and there is nothing in any of my posts to suggest that I do. The term 'RYR haters' and 'RYR supporters club' were just convenient labelling terms for the two main groups of opinion. It's interesting that you pick up on this point more than other, more relevant, points I made.
I'll say again that I don't consider RYR to be a real airline, they fly point to point to cherry picked destinations. This is of absolutely no use to me what so ever, I need airlines with large route networks and quality backup services.
The legacy carriers seem to be a bit more forward thinking in their route planning as well, they regularly take huge hits on certain routes in order to strengthen sectors further down the line, this is especially important for someone like me living in provincial France away from a main hub. In recent years AusAir, LH and AF have all made significant efforts to pick up business from my locality with BA doing the same from FRA, I can get into these airlines networks with the first sector almost thrown in for free.
Like I said earlier I have nothing against RYR in the same way I don't have anything against McDonalds, National Express Coachlines, Brittany Ferries or the Manchester Bus Corporation. Their products are either unsuitable or I just don't like them.
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,921
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From: STANSTED & MANCHESTER
so it happens to BA
o dear o dear
looks like BA is more like RYR after all
Operational problems at Terminal 4 - TODAY
Terminal 4 is experiencing operational problems today as a result of severe congestion in the baggage system caused by the high volume of bags being processed. As a result the terminal building is heavily congested and check-in for the time being, has been suspended. BAA and British Airways are working closely together to resolve this issue and sincerely regret any inconvenience this is causing or may cause to passengers
looks like BA is more like RYR after all
Operational problems at Terminal 4 - TODAY
Terminal 4 is experiencing operational problems today as a result of severe congestion in the baggage system caused by the high volume of bags being processed. As a result the terminal building is heavily congested and check-in for the time being, has been suspended. BAA and British Airways are working closely together to resolve this issue and sincerely regret any inconvenience this is causing or may cause to passengers
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: here there and everywhere
Oh dear oh dear...
BA has ongoing problems at T4 and we all know that. The way BAA handled the chance of security threat level wasn't very good, for both BA and FR (In fact they're both contemplating asking for compensation....).
Hopefully after the move to T5 things will get better at LHR.
However...to say that BA and FR are the same.....I do not think so!!!!
BA has ongoing problems at T4 and we all know that. The way BAA handled the chance of security threat level wasn't very good, for both BA and FR (In fact they're both contemplating asking for compensation....).
Hopefully after the move to T5 things will get better at LHR.
However...to say that BA and FR are the same.....I do not think so!!!!
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,921
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From: STANSTED & MANCHESTER
well lets just say that many people on here wrote
many things about ryanairs baggage problems
and may I just say that it aint ryanair still sitting
with 1000's of bags and ryanair dont suspend
check-in lets just see how many more bags get
left at LHR
and your right you cant say ryanair is the same as BA
as ryanair are much better at getting your bags to
the destination on the same a/c as you
I would rather wait an hour for my bags than have
them left sat at LHR for week
and now its ok to say its BAA that have the problem
after I tried to tell you all over the last few days
many things about ryanairs baggage problems
and may I just say that it aint ryanair still sitting
with 1000's of bags and ryanair dont suspend
check-in lets just see how many more bags get
left at LHR
and your right you cant say ryanair is the same as BA
as ryanair are much better at getting your bags to
the destination on the same a/c as you
I would rather wait an hour for my bags than have
them left sat at LHR for week
and now its ok to say its BAA that have the problem
after I tried to tell you all over the last few days
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 77
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From: Essex
Groundhog day
This is all going the same way as the last thread, it will all become increasing personal, nasty and irrelevant so why bother?
I'm sure we established last time that there are 2 propositions and a chorus, as follows...
• Proposition 1 (P1)
"Whatever any of us may think about FR, the fact remains that they are the most successful airline in Europe, by any criteria you can mention. The fact is that a majority of their customers are satisfied, and that this group of customers is expanding. Opinions about FR tend to be subjective - You like/admire them or you don't, sometimes based on personal experience, sometimes on principle: We all have the ultimate consumer sanction of taking our business away from them if we choose to do so. The fact is, by and large it doesn't matter what we do. There are millions of people who choose to fly FR and are happy with the product - not just the back-packers, students and sleep-on-the-floor-at-Stansted groups, but also the great British middle-class - the public, in their infinite wisdom, have decided that this is how they wish the air travel market to be, and therefore that's how it is."
• Chorus
"In the end, this is a customer driven industry, and the customer will decide how best to spend their hard-earned income - and in the case of FR, they are choosing to spend it there"
• Proposition 2 (P2)
"I loathe FR and O'Leary with all my being. Together, in my view, they have destroyed any pleasure and quality of life for either customers or staff, that ever may have existed in the industry. I have never travelled with them, and never will, purely on principle. I would rather pay more for what, in my perception only, is higher qulity. That is my personal view, and I am clearly in a small minority: it is unlikely that MOL lies awake at night worrying about my views. Put all of that together, and it probably means I am wrong, or at least that my principles are poorly founded."
• Chorus
"In the end, this is a customer driven industry, and the customer will decide how best to spend their hard-earned income - and in the case of FR, they are choosing to spend it there"
Now you can all save yourself an awful lot of effort just by typing either "P1" or "P2",
I'm still with P1, BTW.
I'm sure we established last time that there are 2 propositions and a chorus, as follows...
• Proposition 1 (P1)
"Whatever any of us may think about FR, the fact remains that they are the most successful airline in Europe, by any criteria you can mention. The fact is that a majority of their customers are satisfied, and that this group of customers is expanding. Opinions about FR tend to be subjective - You like/admire them or you don't, sometimes based on personal experience, sometimes on principle: We all have the ultimate consumer sanction of taking our business away from them if we choose to do so. The fact is, by and large it doesn't matter what we do. There are millions of people who choose to fly FR and are happy with the product - not just the back-packers, students and sleep-on-the-floor-at-Stansted groups, but also the great British middle-class - the public, in their infinite wisdom, have decided that this is how they wish the air travel market to be, and therefore that's how it is."
• Chorus
"In the end, this is a customer driven industry, and the customer will decide how best to spend their hard-earned income - and in the case of FR, they are choosing to spend it there"
• Proposition 2 (P2)
"I loathe FR and O'Leary with all my being. Together, in my view, they have destroyed any pleasure and quality of life for either customers or staff, that ever may have existed in the industry. I have never travelled with them, and never will, purely on principle. I would rather pay more for what, in my perception only, is higher qulity. That is my personal view, and I am clearly in a small minority: it is unlikely that MOL lies awake at night worrying about my views. Put all of that together, and it probably means I am wrong, or at least that my principles are poorly founded."
• Chorus
"In the end, this is a customer driven industry, and the customer will decide how best to spend their hard-earned income - and in the case of FR, they are choosing to spend it there"
Now you can all save yourself an awful lot of effort just by typing either "P1" or "P2",
I'm still with P1, BTW.
Riding the Euro Gravy Plane
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From: Strasbourg
I won't fly with RYR but I don't fall into either category. I don't hate O'leary, I've never met the guy though I will pay more for a quality service.
Also, I wish people would stop calling RYR the most successful Airline in Europe because they certainly are not, success is not measured by adding up passenger numbers on very, very short sectors and then saying you are bigger than BA and LH. RYR are to be congratulated on their increased revenues and passenger numbers but you can hardly expect the Legacy carriers to have similar % rises, in any case they are already huge customer bases. If you want to look at a real success story over the last couple of years look at the AF/KLM group, they've achieved good % rises in both passenger numbers and revenue. Again, this isn't an airline that I've liked in the past but one has to congratulate them.
I'd be interested to know where RYR sit in revenue terms with the rest of the worlds airline and I don't just mean in revenue from european routes, I mean just total revenue. I could probably get this info from the net somewhere but I'm sure someone else has this info to hand.
Also, I wish people would stop calling RYR the most successful Airline in Europe because they certainly are not, success is not measured by adding up passenger numbers on very, very short sectors and then saying you are bigger than BA and LH. RYR are to be congratulated on their increased revenues and passenger numbers but you can hardly expect the Legacy carriers to have similar % rises, in any case they are already huge customer bases. If you want to look at a real success story over the last couple of years look at the AF/KLM group, they've achieved good % rises in both passenger numbers and revenue. Again, this isn't an airline that I've liked in the past but one has to congratulate them.
I'd be interested to know where RYR sit in revenue terms with the rest of the worlds airline and I don't just mean in revenue from european routes, I mean just total revenue. I could probably get this info from the net somewhere but I'm sure someone else has this info to hand.
Riding the Euro Gravy Plane
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From: Strasbourg
Daz
Yes, I agree with that, I think everyone should have a choice, this includes RYR pilots and their right to join a union. I think it would be very underhand, and possibly illegal, if, for example, RYR attempted to get their pilots to sign a contract which said something along the lines of 'if you choose to join a union at a later date we may decide to make you pay back the cost of your conversion training - €15000'
Seriously though I agree with you, I assume you are referring to the STN-SXB route where RYR were found to be receiving subsidies from the local chamber of commerce (via airport and landing fees) the RYR deal was clearly good for the local community as they were flying thousands of people here each week for tourism putting millions of euros into the local economy. The only people losing out were AF, whose SXB-LGW route was like the marie celeste, hence the court action.
That said RYR often attempt to use the court system against their own employees and customers and while, on occasion, they win their moral position is often questionable. Normally they are trying to muscle someone into submission and they can sometimes do this because they are bigger and have more resources. Therefore it's quite amusing when an even bigger entity with more muscle and resources give RYR a taste of their own medicine. If you take on AF in their own backyard they will give you a legal pasting, on this occasion their moral position was questionable but technically there were correct.
Yes, I agree with that, I think everyone should have a choice, this includes RYR pilots and their right to join a union. I think it would be very underhand, and possibly illegal, if, for example, RYR attempted to get their pilots to sign a contract which said something along the lines of 'if you choose to join a union at a later date we may decide to make you pay back the cost of your conversion training - €15000'
Seriously though I agree with you, I assume you are referring to the STN-SXB route where RYR were found to be receiving subsidies from the local chamber of commerce (via airport and landing fees) the RYR deal was clearly good for the local community as they were flying thousands of people here each week for tourism putting millions of euros into the local economy. The only people losing out were AF, whose SXB-LGW route was like the marie celeste, hence the court action.
That said RYR often attempt to use the court system against their own employees and customers and while, on occasion, they win their moral position is often questionable. Normally they are trying to muscle someone into submission and they can sometimes do this because they are bigger and have more resources. Therefore it's quite amusing when an even bigger entity with more muscle and resources give RYR a taste of their own medicine. If you take on AF in their own backyard they will give you a legal pasting, on this occasion their moral position was questionable but technically there were correct.
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CARR30
P3 for me.
I use them if there is no alternative.
I don't hate them, just find using their service the equivalent of being stuck with the Sun when I'd really prefer the Economist.
Yep, it's better than having nothing to read, but that's about as good as it gets.
P3 for me.
I use them if there is no alternative.
I don't hate them, just find using their service the equivalent of being stuck with the Sun when I'd really prefer the Economist.
Yep, it's better than having nothing to read, but that's about as good as it gets.
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: london
Thread Starter
...the thin end thereof
Joined: Jun 1998
Posts: 269
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From: London
I didn't intend for this thread to become another FR slanging match. I was just trying to find out if what the BBA guy at STN said was true. I was frankly shocked by the piss poor service I received from FR on a late night arrival at STN, on a bank holiday weekend, which meant I waited nearly 2 hours for my bags, only to be informed that this was a nightly occurence, had been going on for a year, and that as a result the BAA guy and his colleagues were leaving in droves as they were so fed up with it.
FWIW, I am with P1, on a qualified basis: that FR usually provides an excellent product at a very low price, and that when things run as they should, the customer is very happy. However, it appears that at STN I was not the victim of things going wrong, but the bog standard that is to be expected from FR for a late arrival. As has been stated, FR must be aware of what is going on and clearly can not be bothered to do anything about it.
If I could be bothered I would have complained and applied for compensation, but the fact I've advertised the situation with this thread and that it's been read by a large number of people is enough for me.
It's a shame, because right up to the last hurdle my first experience of Ryanair had been excellent and I had nothing bad to say about them.
FWIW, I am with P1, on a qualified basis: that FR usually provides an excellent product at a very low price, and that when things run as they should, the customer is very happy. However, it appears that at STN I was not the victim of things going wrong, but the bog standard that is to be expected from FR for a late arrival. As has been stated, FR must be aware of what is going on and clearly can not be bothered to do anything about it.
If I could be bothered I would have complained and applied for compensation, but the fact I've advertised the situation with this thread and that it's been read by a large number of people is enough for me.
It's a shame, because right up to the last hurdle my first experience of Ryanair had been excellent and I had nothing bad to say about them.
Thread Starter
...the thin end thereof
Joined: Jun 1998
Posts: 269
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From: London
F3G, if you don't like this thread, you don't need to click on it, much less read it and post childish comments like that.
I suspect you've enjoyed it hugely, or you wouldn't still be here
I suspect you've enjoyed it hugely, or you wouldn't still be here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 331
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From: london
F3g had a perfectly valid point. Ryanair - compensation? what compensation??
As to your main point, as I have posted before, it would be good to know what the relevant management (Ryanair, BAA or whoever) are doing to rectify the situation. All I've seen so far are lame excuses.
As to your main point, as I have posted before, it would be good to know what the relevant management (Ryanair, BAA or whoever) are doing to rectify the situation. All I've seen so far are lame excuses.
Thread Starter
...the thin end thereof
Joined: Jun 1998
Posts: 269
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From: London
Well I read his post as a snipe - sorry if I misread it.
Anyway - re: compensation, I'd not have expected to get anywhere - however I was looking at the EU passenger's charter the other day and there is stuff about baggage.
If there's an expert out there who can give us a quick resume of what the passenger's contractual and other rights are in relation to baggage I'd be very interested.
Anyway - re: compensation, I'd not have expected to get anywhere - however I was looking at the EU passenger's charter the other day and there is stuff about baggage.
If there's an expert out there who can give us a quick resume of what the passenger's contractual and other rights are in relation to baggage I'd be very interested.
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Wedge
Not a swipe at you as 10secondsurvey pointed out, but I think you'll be very lucky to get anything other from the airline (or any other airline) than an apology for a short delay, by which I mean that you got your bags back at the airport, not a few days later.
Now when they go missing for a few days, you might be able to get something then. Its happened to me three times in the last year and one one occasion I got £100 to cover emergency clothes purchases (missing for 2 days), whilst on the next it was a free overnight amenity pack (a very good one) and the bags back the next morning.
Until then, you have a choice who/where/when to fly with/from and it appears that late night arrivals at Stansted may well have baggage delays, so its a judgement of whether you are prepare to trade off some frustration for what you report as being a good deal, just as I sometimes have to decide how much I want to get home on a Friday night, when airports are mad places, compared to a leisurely Sat am. start.
Not a swipe at you as 10secondsurvey pointed out, but I think you'll be very lucky to get anything other from the airline (or any other airline) than an apology for a short delay, by which I mean that you got your bags back at the airport, not a few days later.
Now when they go missing for a few days, you might be able to get something then. Its happened to me three times in the last year and one one occasion I got £100 to cover emergency clothes purchases (missing for 2 days), whilst on the next it was a free overnight amenity pack (a very good one) and the bags back the next morning.
Until then, you have a choice who/where/when to fly with/from and it appears that late night arrivals at Stansted may well have baggage delays, so its a judgement of whether you are prepare to trade off some frustration for what you report as being a good deal, just as I sometimes have to decide how much I want to get home on a Friday night, when airports are mad places, compared to a leisurely Sat am. start.
Last edited by Final 3 Greens; 3rd September 2006 at 21:51. Reason: added or any other airline in line 1
Riding the Euro Gravy Plane
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From: Strasbourg
F3G
Can you enlighten us on which airlines which provided you with immediate cash compensation and the amenity pack ? I suppose I'd be right in assuming it was not RYR in either case ?
Can you enlighten us on which airlines which provided you with immediate cash compensation and the amenity pack ? I suppose I'd be right in assuming it was not RYR in either case ?
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,921
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From: STANSTED & MANCHESTER
final 3 - made a good point
you do have a choice who when and where you fly
but remember alot of airlines are having problems with baggage
if it were me I would stick with RYR as BA seem to be having
alot more trouble with baggage and im sure you would rather wait
upto 2 hrs for your bags at stansted than have your bag join
the 1000's at heathrow that are waiting to be delivered
you do have a choice who when and where you fly
but remember alot of airlines are having problems with baggage
if it were me I would stick with RYR as BA seem to be having
alot more trouble with baggage and im sure you would rather wait
upto 2 hrs for your bags at stansted than have your bag join
the 1000's at heathrow that are waiting to be delivered