Why not permanently ban hand luggage???

[Dryce]

Originally Posted by striparella

Hmmm....i HATE hand luggage and strive to take on as little as possible - namely because i'm quite chilled and don't mind waiting that extra five minutes for your bags and know how to lock them like Fort Knox so NO baggage handler is getting in my bag - they couldn't even get in to it in JNB. I was so proud.

I don't worry about baggage handlers getting *into* my bag. I worry
about their ability to make it vanish or the effect on on its internal
contents through mishandling.

It's quite easy to get chilled about not having too much hand bagage
on holiday.

If you're travelling in Business of First i think you should be able to take on what you could before the 10th Aug as it can get stored elsewhere rather than over head bins.

Not all aircraft that have an up front have much additional storage space.
And we're not talking just about Embraer pocket airliners

But economy? I say keep the new hand luggage regs!! The size the BAA imposing is just right and will stop pax on certain flights thinking their handluggage is an extension of their checked in bags.
I work at check in and have seen it all - from car tyres and cat litter to 30 fake Ben Sherman shirts in cabin baggage. Is that REALLY necessary!!!

Well there we have it. You really just want to protect your job
by having us all queue up at the cehck-in desk.

You just don't like us efficient souls who could pack for a short
trip within the standard dmensions (pre stupid regs) and used the
online check in. Saving not five mins but about an hour or more
all in. Saved the airline money too.

An hour isn't much? It is when you are hauling yourself in for
a dawn flight for an early start and returning on an evening
flight the same day or next day.

Now the stupid part is I carry the same gear. The stuff that
always had to be scanned in handbaggage still goes through.
The boring old clothing gets checked in.

Reduction in workload to the handbaggage scanners? Almost
none. The increase in workload to the check-in and its baggage
clearance? 100%.

[Wile E. Coyote]

But economy? I say keep the new hand luggage regs!! The size the BAA imposing is just right and will stop pax on certain flights thinking their handluggage is an extension of their checked in bags.

When I'm travelling in the back I'll be taking my camera + lens... no way am I going to risk them getting damaged/stolen.... as I've said before, my next pleasure trip from the UK will be by ship.

I do agree that hand luggage needs to be restricted, but the new restrictions are just too damn tight .

[Hunter58]

When I Travel I usually travel in C-Class for the company and stay very short in wherever I am going. A home-base to New York and back the next day is not a rare occasion. Longer trips may look like home-base - New York - Atlanta - Chicago - Detroit - Montreal - home base (all within the working week; the week-end is mine and the family's and not the comany's). That is done with a standard roller bag and a laptop case.

Our company rules stricly forbid that we check laptops for security reasons (mainly confidentiality), an personally I have no intention of having to buy shaving cream and toothpaste every time I see another city (unfortunalety I have to now). Also, seeing a customer based on the most likely lost luggage is not an option (the company does not pay for lost luggage and this would mean the extra suit I'd have to buy is on me! The airline won't pay for anything if they find the bag, and would send it step by step of my trip until it would finally reach me at home after 2 weeks).

And, since I have to use regular medication, I will under no circumstance let that go in the hold!

Banning hand luggage in general would simply but any airline out of business!

[Gouabafla]

Just a word for those of us sitting in the cheap seats at the back of the aircraft. I understand that people in business and first have payed for certain privileges and should get them. But don't assume that everyone in economy is flying for pleasure. I work for a charity and whatever distance I'm flying I always have to turn right when I get on the plane. In the next few months I've got four or five flights to Central Africa and at least one to Asia. I, too, want access to my laptop during the flight, so that I can get some preparation done for my work. I also need a book or three to read because I can't recharge my PC in the economy seats!

I don't want to carry lots of handluggage, but I want the basics, oh and a spare pair of undies and socks because from time to time, checked baggage does go missing.

[1DC]

Just go back to the old carry on baggage sizes and enforce them.
The problem in the past was that the rules were not enforced and many passengers took it for granted that they would get away with an extra bag and turned up to check in with that in mind.Most travellers have a regulation(old rules) bag and why should it go to waste, let them bring it on board but no others. It seems that most airlines want to go back to this standard.
I do have a vested interest cos i bought a new carry on just before the new rules, it was smaller than the one it replaced and is actually 2 centimetres oversize on all the dimensions of the new rules.This leads me to believe that the new sizing was deliberatel devised to "measure" all carry on baggage out of the system..

[PAXboy]

PaperTiger

Whose idea was it to make the bins bigger to accomodate the 'out of hand' items ? Airline ? Manufacturer ? I don't recall being asked.

As with anything else in the airlines - it was the customers. The carriers found that people wanted to bring more on board and would change carrier to be allowed to do so. The manufacturers duly made the bins bigger and stronger and the vicious circle was in place.

Why did customers want to do this? Because so many hold bags went either missing or were vandalised. Also - and this is critical - the carriers devised their hub-and-spoke system to shift people around the USA (in particular) and this was adopted in other parts of the world. Pax then found that their bags did not make the short connection times so ... they started carrying it all on with them. Since they could do that for internal flights, naturally they wanted to do it for international sectors.

Hunter58

Banning hand luggage in general would simply but any airline out of business!

It certainly would. One international telecommunications consultant that I know has already changed his working practice due to the current restrictions. He is Gold card with most of the alliances and says that if he has to to travel, he will take a ferry from near home (Colchester) and then fly from the continent.

1Dc

Just go back to the old carry on baggage sizes and enforce them. The problem in the past was that the rules were not enforced and many passengers took it for granted that they would get away with an extra bag and turned up to check in with that in mind.

YES 100% correct!!! The rules were perfectly satisfactory but no one wanted to implement them. Why? Read again my reply to PaperTiger and the circle is complete.

What is particularly amusing about the Hub-and-Spoke system is that, because people liked the lower fares but not the longer times, a new model emerged. The LCC direct-to-destination carriers then started taking the traffic from the main lines - but the baggage problem was certainly not going to change.

[nivsy]

Passed thru' LHR last week and LGW yesterday. Was surprised at the number of smokers air side still with cigarette lighters (thought they were a no no from security) ...or are some of the retailers giving them away


Nivsy

[gorgeous spotter]

Originally Posted by Final 3 Greens

Yep

And bear in mind that some of the overhead bin space is typically taken up by crew luggage in my experience.

In fact they are so careful at stowing it that a crew member shoe fell out of a bin when another CC opened it and it fell on my head as I was sleeping in a flat be beneath.

The person involved (CSD) insisted on making the other come an apologise for putting it there (????) even though all I wanted to do was to go back to sleep.

p k of the first order.

So maybe CC hand baggage should be banned, after all they work for the airline who are responsible for the safe conveyance of luggage from A to B and back, so it would be quite safe, wouldn't it?

F3G your thread tickled me so much I had to reply. Yes, I've been on premium priced flights and its annoying when you go to open your overhead compartment to find it stuffed full with crew luggage. The last few flights though we've been brave and put everything in the hold. Less hassle we have found but we don't have to travel like you with our laptops so you're obviously finding it a complete pain in the neck or should I say head?? Keep smiling!


Gorgeous

[Final 3 Greens]

Hi Gorgeous

As yet, I haven't been affected at all, since I haven't been to the UK for several weeks,

In the past couple of weeks, I've connected via FRA, ZRH and FCO and it is toitally business as usual in those places.

I have to go to London tomorrow and am not looking forward to the return experience on Friday night out of T4 - at least I'll get fast tracked.

Pleased to hear that your luggage was safe.

Happy landings.

[bealine]

Anyway, that won't be a problem as I am not connecting via LON anymore, since there are plenty of airlines and airports willing to offer a reasonable service.

Enjoy the winter season and the next set of financial results - your new boss will have a burning platform to use any way he wishes.

I have no wish to cross swords with you, and it is never my intention to appear arrogant or as a "jobsworth". I was merely stating a fact that boarding an aircraft is now much smarter and swifter as a result of the Home Office cabin baggage policy. In hindsight, my remarks do seem a trifle flippant, but it was my intention to try to lighten up a subject that no one will win. I am convinced that, however the Home Office chooses to relax the restrictions, we will never see a return to the "anything goes" that RYanair wanted!

We are not in business to run an airline for our convenience and I am indeed sorry we are losing transfer business as a result - even though the yields from this business are low in comparison with our home-grown point to point traffic. Believe me, while it makes my job easier, I derive no satisfaction from the hardships our customers have suffered in the first few days of this alert.

However, I do feel the present Briefcase / Laptop size baggage restriction for Economy should remain in force due to the fact that our flights (our meaning all airlines generally) tend to be full nearly all year round now and there physically isn't the space for everyone in Economy to stow a trolley bag and a briefcase or laptop - regardless of what those idiots at Waterworld say! The premium cabins are a different story, but for safety, I do think we need a maximum weight limit per bag.

Our forward bookings, though, are still looking healthy, thanks to our very loyal customer base and the British way of accepting adversity and just getting on with it - stiff upper lip and all that kind of thing! So, to those customers, I thank you!

The next set of financial results may be dented by the increased costs of compensation claims for lost / delayed / missing items, but as compensation for this will be claimed by British Airways from BAA and, in turn, the Home Office, it will be a temporary set back.

It is still grieving me to see the occasional car key lying around on the apron, or in the corner of a baggage truck, where it has fallen out of a bag and there is no way of ever reuniting it with its owner. I wonder how many cars have had to have new immobilisers fitted or reset as a result of the first two days ban on electric key fobs!

So, if I appeared arrogant, I apologise. The "Customer Service" part of me is aggrieved at the way things are. Judging by the professionally printed canvas signage just erected by the BAA at Gatwick concerning "Prohibited Items", it's not expected to be over quickly!

[radeng]

Just suppose that you had followed the rules and only taken the 'medications required during flight'. You arrived in New York or wherever, and your bags didn't. Now what? You now have to get prescription medicines from a doctor who doesn't know you, so there's a problem. Can he contact your doctor? Well, maybe, but will your your doctor release the confidential information regarding your treatment? Can he legally do so without your written permission?
I've gone through this getting drugs abroad, and I had all the packages with me to show that I had prescriptions for them. Even then it was a pain and expensive.
The present size limitations are a pain and unnecessary. Just enforce the previous ones! I'd put them down as the result of some brainless wonders at BAA and DfT. Unless the rules change soon, I'm not sure that we'll need LHR T5 or a new runway at LHR or even need LGW. No passengers really reduces demand.......
Or is this a new approach by the environmental lobby?

[bealine]

......some brainless wonders at BAA and DfT

On this occasion, radeng, the rules come directly from the Home Office. The DFT and BAA are merely enforcing them.

If your own doctor provides you with a letter stating that it is important for you to have the medicines with you, then the airline and the BAA will make provision for you. Whilst recommended that you take "only what is required for the flight", your airline would advise taking sufficient quantity for 7 days (theoretically the maximum time that you should be without your hold baggage if it was misrouted!)

Quite honestly, it is this area of hold baggage reliability that all airlines need to get to grips with. If 99.9% of hold baggage was in the Customs Hall within 10 minutes of arrival, no one would have a problem with it. It is the lengthy wait and the uncertainty as to whether or not the bags actually travelled that puts our customers off!

For the moment, however, forward bookings at British Airways are very healthy, proving that the British spirit is alive and well!

..........and how dare Michael O'Leary use our Sir Winston Churchill to get cheap publicity for his foreign airline!

[Final 3 Greens]

I am convinced that, however the Home Office chooses to relax the restrictions, we will never see a return to the "anything goes" that RYanair wanted!

Bealine, I don't wish to cross swords with you either, but that is such an insular view.

Things are still "anything goes" around the rest of Europe and there will be a strong impact on the UK airline and airport sector if the UK authorities do not restore a level playing field one way or the other. I see that the Home Secretary is trying to persuade the rest of Europe to adopt the UK approach - well time will tell.

I've just re-routed 4 sectors to avoid LON, okay in itself no big deal, but many other travellers I speak to are doing the same thing and if that trend is scaled up over the course of a year, that is a hell of a lot of lost revenue.

People tend to be happy with established routines, so once they have unlearned LON as a transfer point and learned AMS, FRA, CDG, MXP, FCO, ZRH etc, it may be difficult to recover the lost revenues. I learned last week that using FCO to fly to HEL saved me 1h10 in flying time over my previous choice of LHR and AY offer a similar product to BA, so I won't be going via LHR anymore. That's 3-4 return trips per year, in C, gone for a start - see what I mean?

On point to point traffic, some people (casual flyers) will just stop flying, because the hassle factor is too great; equally, fast turnarounds (aka higher fleet utilisation) are at the heart of loco operations.

MOL is no fool, understands this and this is why he is trying hard to protect his company's business, using methods which many may find distasteful.

[EastMids]

Originally Posted by bealine

On this occasion, radeng, the rules come directly from the Home Office. The DFT and BAA are merely enforcing them.

So the Home Office came up with these totally abitary, non-standard, carry on baggage sizes all by themselves did they? Ha! Not a chance!

For a long time, the BAA have been trying to limit carry on bag sizes. The BAA wanted smaller and even more importantly fewer bags, because it requires less resource to screen them. The airlines wanted more and larger carry on bags, because it saves them money in terms of what they pay handling agents (a la Ryanair). The BAA are limited in how much they can hike up their charges to airlines and Want to maintain a return for their shareholders, even if the final result is a lowering of standards (service times) for their indirect customers, the passengers. So, when the Home Office/DfT consult the BAA on what the carry on sizes should be, they are handed a golden opportunity to limit sizes and therefore contain their resourcing levels. BAA have a long track record of placing profit above customer service, and the current regulations are merely a lever that they're using to maintain their margins whilst the airlines suffer from lost business resulting from BAA management ineptitude. Instead of allowing artificial limitations to be put in place, the Home Office/DfT should be telling the BAA what performance standards they have to meet (queue time at security, etc), and the BAA should be told that these targets must be met irrespective of the resources required to achieve them.

Andy

[Globaliser]

Originally Posted by 1DC

Just go back to the old carry on baggage sizes and enforce them.

Agreed. The problem with the old situation was the number of people who didn't comply with the rules.

Having now done two weekend trips with the current restrictions, they will be a grave deterrent to weekend trips if they remain in the longer term. The old size was ample for a weekend's worth of clothes. The new size will only barely allow one night's very basic change.

Also, the restriction on toiletries virtually forces you to check something in. That, again, will be a deterrent to the fast weekend trip.

[skydriller]

Bealine, I am totally with F3G on this. I really think you need to reflect on what you have written on here. Not all business flying involves C class. I fly for work both down the back and in C (depending upon what the client will pay!!) and like most business pax have a "must take" set of stuff that always travels with me regardless.

Our forward bookings, though, are still looking healthy, thanks to our very loyal customer base and the British way of accepting adversity and just getting on with it - stiff upper lip and all that kind of thing!

BA have used up alot of that customer loyalty this year (remember catering?) and I dont think the stiff upper lip thing will keep people flying BA through London when they see how other Hubs operate. Im really disappointed that its MOL hassling the UK government with law suit threats etc. and not BA fighting to get common sense back into flying - especially as BA were previously promoting more hand baggage too!! The rest of Europe is not effected by the UK rules and I have myself just gone through MUC to avoid a UK transfer..... which means BA have lost me until common sense returns. As I mentioned on another thread I cant believe it, but Im even going to be using CDG more now!!

Regards, SD..

[lexxity]

From a customer service point of view, I work on check in and have noticed heavier queues because nearly every pax is checking a bag in and now we have to do the "liquids" question too, it is making queues ridiculously long. Passengers are losing patience, and I really cannot blame them. We are still encouraging pax to use the self service machines and then just drop their bags at the desk, but this is still taking inordiante amounts of time. Passengers have also commented on "the point" of such machines now.

These rules cannot stay in place, they are slowly strangling the business. Even once a year travellers are finding it tiring and causing them additional stress on what can be an already stressful time for them.

[Dryce]

Originally Posted by bealine

I was merely stating a fact that boarding an aircraft is now much smarter and swifter as a result of the Home Office cabin baggage policy.

Frankly I hadn't noticed any difference in boarding times (but then
EZY always were quick).

What I did notice was the large increase in the number of checked
in bags being loaded and the length of time taken which delayed push
back (usually prompt) by 15 minutes.

I also noticed the extra time in the check in (a novel experience this
year given the option of the online check-in facility).

So yes. Perhaps some aircraft may board a few minutes quicker. Not
much of a tradeoff against all the other time wasted.

[radeng]

the trouble is, Bealine, that when you fly in on the Friday after the restrictions are imposed and are flying out Monday, there's no time to get doctor's letters!
So the Home Office are among these brainless wotsits, are they? I'll say again THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE PREVIOUS SIZE LIMITS! they just needed enforcing.
BA's future bookings probably will look pretty solid. Business travel has to carry on, but the hidden costs to the economy in terms of lost time are enormous. I've only done 31 fights on BA so far this year, with another 11 to do before the end of September..........there's little option for me other than to fly. People talk of video conferences, but getting up in the middle of the night for 8 hours of video conference is more of a problem than flying.....

[redsnail]

I loved the old BA economy cabin allowance. I could take my rollaboard and my nav bag on board. I have to use airlines pretty much every week to be positioned to my aircraft. This meant I could get about another 30-60min sleep on day 1 and get off and out of the airport quickly on Day 6.

Not any more. The new rules just suck. Now I have to check in my rollaboard case. If they lose it, it will be practically impossible for it to be reunited with me until I go home.

All I can say is that since the new rules have come into force that our business and every other biz jet in the UK has been flat out!