Ryanair Landings
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Ryanair Landings
After recently flying with Ryanair from STN-VLC and back again, I noticed the pilots would apply more thrust just before coming into land. Then after pretty hefty landings, would yank on the rear thrust (excuse my ignorance in what the pilot is actually doing at this stage) far more than BA or Easyjet flights I have been on. Is this some company policy to get faster turnarounds? If so, I'll be sticking with BA and Easy in the future as I'm not the most confident flyer at the best of times.
Thanks
Joe
Thanks
Joe
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Originally Posted by joemaco
Is this some company policy to get faster turnarounds?
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Ditto to OP
I noticed this too, last week on a return flight with Ryanair, Luton to Reus and back. We circled the airport about 5 times as we were 25 minutes early and then on the final approach the pilot appeared to be speeding up and the nose going up, we had a very heavy landing and an extremely long and very fast journey along the runway. I'm not a confident flyer and I sat in row 11 because someone told me you feel less turbulance in this seat........we bounced around all the way back 
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There's no published evidence that FR fly (or land) their aircraft differently, or better or worse than other carriers. Circumstances are different on every approach to an airfield, and there are often factors in play that may not be evident to customers: For example, ATC may sometimes ask an aircraft to clear the runway ASAP to enable another aircraft to depart or arrive, and this can result in a longer roll-out or harder braking to make a turn off.
It is also worth noting that runway length and condition (wet/dry) will afect the landing technique significantly. Clearly a dry, long runway with a light aircraft (such as at LHR) will require a different technique to a wet and shorter runway with a heavier aircraft.
I suspect that in the circumstances outlined above, the perception may be of one thing, while the truth is somewhat more mundane - some landings are just smoother than others: Sometimes those you expect to be smooth and gentle go wrong in the last 10 feet, and vice versa. It's just in the nature of the beast.
It is also worth noting that runway length and condition (wet/dry) will afect the landing technique significantly. Clearly a dry, long runway with a light aircraft (such as at LHR) will require a different technique to a wet and shorter runway with a heavier aircraft.
I suspect that in the circumstances outlined above, the perception may be of one thing, while the truth is somewhat more mundane - some landings are just smoother than others: Sometimes those you expect to be smooth and gentle go wrong in the last 10 feet, and vice versa. It's just in the nature of the beast.
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Dunno about anyone else, but I'd rather endure a 'firm contact' in preference to potentially skidding off a wet runway or floating half way down a runway and overshooting...!
In the majority of flights I take, the (auto)pilot nearly always increases thrust in the last few miles prior to touchdown, I always assume its the pilot/auto-pilot adjusting to maintain the glide slope and to some extent to overcome the additional drag of full flaps/gear down?
Apparently a firm contact also reduces tyre wear (less skidding immediately on touchdown) and that its some operators policy to always have a firm contact for this reason. However, I'm not sure as to the validity of this rumour...
In the majority of flights I take, the (auto)pilot nearly always increases thrust in the last few miles prior to touchdown, I always assume its the pilot/auto-pilot adjusting to maintain the glide slope and to some extent to overcome the additional drag of full flaps/gear down?
Apparently a firm contact also reduces tyre wear (less skidding immediately on touchdown) and that its some operators policy to always have a firm contact for this reason. However, I'm not sure as to the validity of this rumour...
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perkin
You have no means of knowing whether the landing is automatic or manual. Besides, whether it be auto or manual, they are both trying to execute the same procedure! If the wind speed and/or direction change during the approach, then the throttles may be advanced at one stage and retarted at another by the pilot or the computer. On final approach, it is often (but not always) a standard procedure to slightly increase the thrust as this gives the pilot (or computer) greater control over the machine. No pilot sets out to make a firm landing but they do set out to bring you safely to the terminal, which is what you seem to be experiencing.
willow-blossom
Do you mean 'bounced all the way back down the runway' or 'bounced all the way back from Reus to Luton'? Neither the surface of the runway, nor the condition of the air over Europe is within the pilot's control. If there is turbulence on the route, the pilot flying may well ask Air Traffic Control for an alternative flight level, to see if it is smoother a bit higher or lower. However, it may not be smoother there, or an alternative flight level may not be available on that route at that time.
the (auto)pilot nearly always increases thrust in the last few miles prior to touchdown
willow-blossom
we bounced around all the way back
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Thanks everyone for the advice. It's my first post and quite suprised by the response. It seems that it was just a case of circumstances that lead to the fast heavy landings, e.g. shorter runways and possible ATC requests. Although I would like to add both flights had light winds and good visibility when landing (pilots words).
I am a nervous flyer, and I think the more I start to understand what the aircraft is doing at any given time, the more relaxed I will become. That's why I've joined the forum. However nothing against RY, but I think I'll stick with Ezy and BA in the future. It's just a perception thing, but I just feel more confident when flying with them.
I am a nervous flyer, and I think the more I start to understand what the aircraft is doing at any given time, the more relaxed I will become. That's why I've joined the forum. However nothing against RY, but I think I'll stick with Ezy and BA in the future. It's just a perception thing, but I just feel more confident when flying with them.
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joemaco
After touchdown at Ryanair they use full thrust reverse to save the brakes by becoming to hot. this is done because after 25 minutes the plane has to leave again and in case you have to abort an take off you dont want your brakes to be to hot because you need them up to there maximum! The firm touchdowns are more common on the 737-800 then on other aircraft and are nothing to worry about these planes can easily take this! I hope to see you on one of Ryanair flights in the future
After touchdown at Ryanair they use full thrust reverse to save the brakes by becoming to hot. this is done because after 25 minutes the plane has to leave again and in case you have to abort an take off you dont want your brakes to be to hot because you need them up to there maximum! The firm touchdowns are more common on the 737-800 then on other aircraft and are nothing to worry about these planes can easily take this! I hope to see you on one of Ryanair flights in the future
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Joe
I am afraid that so,e of the replies here are not very useful, as to put it mildly, they are rubbish.
In the absence of a Ryanair pilot or ATPL, let me as a PPL give you a little info about landing in general.
Landing is always a mix of science and art. All have performance parameters for different weights and configurations and pilots oberve those.
For example, a typical small light aircraft will fly dozn final approach at about 90 mph and touch down at about 55mph.
Thats the science.
The art bit comes from factors such as gusty winds, changes in wind direction and similar factors.
Consequently, we aim to land within a tight zone on the runwat at a safe speed.
Smooth lendings are not part of the deal, but a bonus - however, safe landings are very much part of the deal.
I am afraid that so,e of the replies here are not very useful, as to put it mildly, they are rubbish.
In the absence of a Ryanair pilot or ATPL, let me as a PPL give you a little info about landing in general.
Landing is always a mix of science and art. All have performance parameters for different weights and configurations and pilots oberve those.
For example, a typical small light aircraft will fly dozn final approach at about 90 mph and touch down at about 55mph.
Thats the science.
The art bit comes from factors such as gusty winds, changes in wind direction and similar factors.
Consequently, we aim to land within a tight zone on the runwat at a safe speed.
Smooth lendings are not part of the deal, but a bonus - however, safe landings are very much part of the deal.
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I noticed the pilots would apply more thrust just before coming into land
It really depends on how the approach was flown. If the deceleration and configuration was left fairly late then you could end up going from flight idle to, roughly, 50% power within a few seconds. And as you've pointed out this can makes nervous passengers feel a bit uncomfortable.
pretty hefty landings
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joemaco I hope I did not sound too stern, simply because this question has been asked here before. I do have some idea of the nervousness for some travellers and trying to understand the myriad range of noises and changes of attitude (the aircraft, rather than your own! 
) that occur during departure and approach.
One of the reasons that the folks at the sharp end get paid good money is that they have to adjust to a remarkable number of changes in a short period of time. It is often said that 15 minutes of careful preparation (deceleration, keeping strictly to the height and route, following the book for flaps and gear down) can all be ruined by a single gust of wind that cannot be forecast and arrives out of the blue and is never seen again!
But, if it arrives at the moment when the 'flare' (the a/c adopting a distinct nose-up attitude so as to be ready to settle on the runway) has been set and the moment when all the gear are fully seated on the runway - then you can find yourself lifted or lowered or moved sideways without any warning and there may be no time for correction. The time that elapses from flare to touch down varies enormously from one a/c to the next but it may be only ten seconds and that can be more than enough time for an unexpected gust to catch the machine and shift it - even five feet lower than expect - and so result in a landing that is firmer than planned.[/i]
Lastly, terminology, you use the words 'hard landing': in airline terms that is only used when it has been severe. That is to say, damage may have occurred and engineers must inspect the machine. It may seem 'hard' to you but it is only 'firm' to the aircraft. Sorry if this is too much information but you said that you joined the site to learn!
) that occur during departure and approach.One of the reasons that the folks at the sharp end get paid good money is that they have to adjust to a remarkable number of changes in a short period of time. It is often said that 15 minutes of careful preparation (deceleration, keeping strictly to the height and route, following the book for flaps and gear down) can all be ruined by a single gust of wind that cannot be forecast and arrives out of the blue and is never seen again!
But, if it arrives at the moment when the 'flare' (the a/c adopting a distinct nose-up attitude so as to be ready to settle on the runway) has been set and the moment when all the gear are fully seated on the runway - then you can find yourself lifted or lowered or moved sideways without any warning and there may be no time for correction. The time that elapses from flare to touch down varies enormously from one a/c to the next but it may be only ten seconds and that can be more than enough time for an unexpected gust to catch the machine and shift it - even five feet lower than expect - and so result in a landing that is firmer than planned.[/i]
Lastly, terminology, you use the words 'hard landing': in airline terms that is only used when it has been severe. That is to say, damage may have occurred and engineers must inspect the machine. It may seem 'hard' to you but it is only 'firm' to the aircraft. Sorry if this is too much information but you said that you joined the site to learn!
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As one of those that sits in the pointy bit on the 738, some of the above is true.
Landing a 'greaser' is definately an art. And lets face it, most pilots aim for a smooth touchdown. But in reality the 73' in particular can be a real pig to land on occasion. And believe me i've had more than my fair share of 'firm arrivals'!
However, a firm landing is by no means an unsafe landing and the use of full reverse thrust as apposed to, or in conjunction with wheel braking does save on brake wear and tear, as previously said.
The RYR operation is slick, (it has to be) and there SOP's are S*it hot.
As a pax you WILL notice different sounds and sensations flying on different airlines/aeroplanes, the problem being sat in the back with no forward veiw, is you are left to imagine what is happening and sometimes with a lack of knowlege, your brain makes its own interpretation on whats going on, based on previous experiences.
Landing a 'greaser' is definately an art. And lets face it, most pilots aim for a smooth touchdown. But in reality the 73' in particular can be a real pig to land on occasion. And believe me i've had more than my fair share of 'firm arrivals'!
However, a firm landing is by no means an unsafe landing and the use of full reverse thrust as apposed to, or in conjunction with wheel braking does save on brake wear and tear, as previously said.
The RYR operation is slick, (it has to be) and there SOP's are S*it hot.
As a pax you WILL notice different sounds and sensations flying on different airlines/aeroplanes, the problem being sat in the back with no forward veiw, is you are left to imagine what is happening and sometimes with a lack of knowlege, your brain makes its own interpretation on whats going on, based on previous experiences.
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aircraft landings
Originally Posted by joemaco
After recently flying with Ryanair from STN-VLC and back again, I noticed the pilots would apply more thrust just before coming into land. Then after pretty hefty landings, would yank on the rear thrust (excuse my ignorance in what the pilot is actually doing at this stage) far more than BA or Easyjet flights I have been on. Is this some company policy to get faster turnarounds? If so, I'll be sticking with BA and Easy in the future as I'm not the most confident flyer at the best of times.
Thanks
Joe
Thanks
Joe
You walked away from the landing therefore, by definition, it was a good one!
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Changes in engine noise on the approach are the norm going into to an airfield in a built up or mountainous area. Buildings and hills cause up and down-draughts on finals - quite often you experience an updraft and will have to take engine power off and adopt a slightly more nose down attitude, then once you've passed this, the downdraft will require another 'boost' of engine power.
The things you describe are nothing to worry about - very normal! I trained with lots of pilots who have gone to easy, BA and Ryanair and none of us use wildly different flying techniques. The amount of reverse thrust depends on runway length, where you want to exit the runway, and how long you have on turnaround for brake cooling. I fly into some airports with short landing distance where we try to get reverse thrust on ASAP, but sometimes it is not necessary due to long runways or at noise sensitive airports. Every single approach and landing is different due to the many variables.
I wouldn't worry about flying with Ryanair - the pilots out there, easy, BA, Ryanair and the rest all have to achieve the same licences and skill tests and are all trying to do the same job - get you on the ground safely!!
The things you describe are nothing to worry about - very normal! I trained with lots of pilots who have gone to easy, BA and Ryanair and none of us use wildly different flying techniques. The amount of reverse thrust depends on runway length, where you want to exit the runway, and how long you have on turnaround for brake cooling. I fly into some airports with short landing distance where we try to get reverse thrust on ASAP, but sometimes it is not necessary due to long runways or at noise sensitive airports. Every single approach and landing is different due to the many variables.
I wouldn't worry about flying with Ryanair - the pilots out there, easy, BA, Ryanair and the rest all have to achieve the same licences and skill tests and are all trying to do the same job - get you on the ground safely!!
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joemaco,
Several posters have pointed out the reasons for thrust adjustments on short final. After landing, most companys' policy is to slow the aircraft down to a controllable taxy speed ASAP which usually means reverse thrust plus moderate braking. The actual amount of braking depends upon the runway condition (wet, dry etc), the runway length and where the turn-offs are, plus as mentioned if ATC ask for a particular exit. The touchdown speed depends on the weather and how heavy the aircraft is, so the same aeroplane might appear to be touching down quite slowly one day into a nice headwind, whereas today has been a nasty, gusty crosswind at my airfield, and I have been watching some very fast arrivals!!!! As a pax it will have felt a bit unpleasant, especially with any small directional corrections the crew make on the runway feeling quite magnified depending upon where you sit in the cabin.
And as an air traffic controller paid to control aircraft landing / departing every day, I can honestly say that Ryanair crews are as professional as any that I control; I can confidently assure you that RYR aircraft land no harder or faster than BA, EZY or any others! (I shall offer no anecdotes of really bad ones that I've witnessed since: 1. I couldn't do any better, and 2. the libel laws in this country....)
Several posters have pointed out the reasons for thrust adjustments on short final. After landing, most companys' policy is to slow the aircraft down to a controllable taxy speed ASAP which usually means reverse thrust plus moderate braking. The actual amount of braking depends upon the runway condition (wet, dry etc), the runway length and where the turn-offs are, plus as mentioned if ATC ask for a particular exit. The touchdown speed depends on the weather and how heavy the aircraft is, so the same aeroplane might appear to be touching down quite slowly one day into a nice headwind, whereas today has been a nasty, gusty crosswind at my airfield, and I have been watching some very fast arrivals!!!! As a pax it will have felt a bit unpleasant, especially with any small directional corrections the crew make on the runway feeling quite magnified depending upon where you sit in the cabin.
And as an air traffic controller paid to control aircraft landing / departing every day, I can honestly say that Ryanair crews are as professional as any that I control; I can confidently assure you that RYR aircraft land no harder or faster than BA, EZY or any others! (I shall offer no anecdotes of really bad ones that I've witnessed since: 1. I couldn't do any better, and 2. the libel laws in this country....)
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From the BOEING Flight Crew Training Manual Section 6 Landing.
"Fly the airplane onto the runway at the desired touchdown point and at the desired airspeed. Do not hold it off and risk the possibility of a tailstrike.
NOTE: A smooth touchdown is not the criterion for a safe landing"
From the wisdom of BOEING?
I am a FO with FR and just like every other pilot flying commercially or privately I have had my share of greasers and spankers!
"Fly the airplane onto the runway at the desired touchdown point and at the desired airspeed. Do not hold it off and risk the possibility of a tailstrike.
NOTE: A smooth touchdown is not the criterion for a safe landing"
From the wisdom of BOEING?
I am a FO with FR and just like every other pilot flying commercially or privately I have had my share of greasers and spankers!
Actually Final 3 Greens, a good example of rubbish would be the spelling in your first post ! Rab C's comment was made in jest. As someone who lands a RYR -800 on a regular basis I can confirm it is hard to grease the aircraft on, especially if it has winglets fitted.
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Actually Final 3 Greens, a good example of rubbish would be the spelling in your first post !
More accurately, it would decribe the AZERTY keyboard I did the post on
And RabC's post to a self confessed nervous flyer was hardly brilliant either.
Greasing the 738 isn't the point though, is it? Operating it safely is.
More accurately, it would decribe the AZERTY keyboard I did the post on
And RabC's post to a self confessed nervous flyer was hardly brilliant either.
Greasing the 738 isn't the point though, is it? Operating it safely is.