More appalling "service" from Air France/KLM
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More appalling "service" from Air France/KLM
On Friday, July 7th, I checked in for the KL 1774 FRA/AMS for onward flight to NCL. Strange that the departure time had changed and it was soon confirmed flight had been cancelled; these things happen.
We unfortunate passengers had to line up at the ticket desk while one member of staff dealt with us over 4 hours. No information from other members of staff, nor any offer of water or other refreshment (FRA Terminal 2 seems to have few cafes or restaurants).
Other members of Air France/KLM staff - all of whom appeared to be French - were sitting idle at the check-in desks. When asked why they could not assist there colleague at the ticket desk, they said they had not been trained to use "KLM's system". Apparently, this precludes their offering passengers any information or refreshment as well.
Some passengers gave up and made their own arrangements to get to their destinations. I was offered an alternative flight via CDG departing this morning - I am compiling this as I wait - and did receive HOTAC.
I am afraid all of the problems I've had with air travel over the last 3 years have been with KLM; an airline with absolutely no notion, concept or concern for passenger welfare. Sod 'em!
We unfortunate passengers had to line up at the ticket desk while one member of staff dealt with us over 4 hours. No information from other members of staff, nor any offer of water or other refreshment (FRA Terminal 2 seems to have few cafes or restaurants).
Other members of Air France/KLM staff - all of whom appeared to be French - were sitting idle at the check-in desks. When asked why they could not assist there colleague at the ticket desk, they said they had not been trained to use "KLM's system". Apparently, this precludes their offering passengers any information or refreshment as well.
Some passengers gave up and made their own arrangements to get to their destinations. I was offered an alternative flight via CDG departing this morning - I am compiling this as I wait - and did receive HOTAC.
I am afraid all of the problems I've had with air travel over the last 3 years have been with KLM; an airline with absolutely no notion, concept or concern for passenger welfare. Sod 'em!
Unfortunately , it's not just KLM - it's a national trait . How the country has changed over the last 30+ years with many Dutch folk voting with their feet and emigrating .
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I have given up on KLM completely and now do not use them at all (where I have a reasonable choice).
The customer is always extremely important, but someone like me ('platinum' in their program with weekly short- and long-haul flights) is exactly the kind of business that is their bread and butter. I do not have excessive or unreasonable demands, simply a decent level of customer service and an attempt to be helpful if plans change.
My last flight with KLM was a couple of months ago when they twice flatly refused to accommodate my request to move my ZRH-CWL to a day earlier. I ended paying £400 for a new ticket, and then they had the bare-faced cheek to tell me I had to cancel my original return ticket as the system would show me leaving ZRH twice in two days and "I may have problems". I have never heard such utter sh*te in my life and that was the final straw. I do not think I have ever been so apoplectic with rage, although I smile about it now!
I now use a combination of SAS, Swiss, EZ, RyanAir, etc, as appropriate, and in actual fact driving to LHR, BHX or BRS is not that big a deal.
I had already switched my long-haul to VS and I am already 'gold' with their program.
I just wish that losing me as a customer would actually mean something to them, and they would ask what the problem was. But they didn't care about me when I was flying with them, so there is no way they will care now that I am not!!!!
GDI
The customer is always extremely important, but someone like me ('platinum' in their program with weekly short- and long-haul flights) is exactly the kind of business that is their bread and butter. I do not have excessive or unreasonable demands, simply a decent level of customer service and an attempt to be helpful if plans change.
My last flight with KLM was a couple of months ago when they twice flatly refused to accommodate my request to move my ZRH-CWL to a day earlier. I ended paying £400 for a new ticket, and then they had the bare-faced cheek to tell me I had to cancel my original return ticket as the system would show me leaving ZRH twice in two days and "I may have problems". I have never heard such utter sh*te in my life and that was the final straw. I do not think I have ever been so apoplectic with rage, although I smile about it now!
I now use a combination of SAS, Swiss, EZ, RyanAir, etc, as appropriate, and in actual fact driving to LHR, BHX or BRS is not that big a deal.
I had already switched my long-haul to VS and I am already 'gold' with their program.
I just wish that losing me as a customer would actually mean something to them, and they would ask what the problem was. But they didn't care about me when I was flying with them, so there is no way they will care now that I am not!!!!
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Originally Posted by goshdarnit
My last flight with KLM was a couple of months ago when they twice flatly refused to accommodate my request to move my ZRH-CWL to a day earlier.
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If my first post wasn't bad enough...
Checked in for KL 964 NCL/AMS (dep 1625L) at around 1400. Ominous that a KLM 737 was parked remote at NCL. Transpires that this was the KL 958 which was ultimately cancelled. KL 964 left an hour late (1725L) with no explanation from Swissport, KLM's partner in crime. Only learned of reason for delay from captain once taxying (getting KL 958 pax sorted).
Once in AMS, baggage carousel indicated 20 minute wait, then 40. A trip to "Baggage Services" confirmed that bag had never left NCL. I refuse to believe that this was not intentional given my check-in time. I write this from the Dorint Sofitel at AMS wearing the same clothes I put on yesterday morning (10/07). I am told my bag is on its way but as it contains presentation equipment as well as clothing, it is too late. I had to run my course using borrowed equipment.
I believe KLM actively promote the culture of obfuscation, lying and, when challenged, toughing it out.
I despise KLM's culture and, given the choice, will use any alternative to get to AMS or other destinations from NCL.
KLM is a crap airline.
Checked in for KL 964 NCL/AMS (dep 1625L) at around 1400. Ominous that a KLM 737 was parked remote at NCL. Transpires that this was the KL 958 which was ultimately cancelled. KL 964 left an hour late (1725L) with no explanation from Swissport, KLM's partner in crime. Only learned of reason for delay from captain once taxying (getting KL 958 pax sorted).
Once in AMS, baggage carousel indicated 20 minute wait, then 40. A trip to "Baggage Services" confirmed that bag had never left NCL. I refuse to believe that this was not intentional given my check-in time. I write this from the Dorint Sofitel at AMS wearing the same clothes I put on yesterday morning (10/07). I am told my bag is on its way but as it contains presentation equipment as well as clothing, it is too late. I had to run my course using borrowed equipment.
I believe KLM actively promote the culture of obfuscation, lying and, when challenged, toughing it out.
I despise KLM's culture and, given the choice, will use any alternative to get to AMS or other destinations from NCL.
KLM is a crap airline.
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If KLM / Air France's 'suits' took the time to go thru Pprune's (and other similar) Forums, they would see what was happening through the experience of the passengers comments and not spend so much (wasted) money on Questionaires. These are expensive and sometimes are made up by students doing some thesis or other. How many of us when presented with a Questionaire spent the quoted 15 mins doing it properly. Attention span for me is about 5 - 7 mins. KLM / AF need to get their act together pretty quicky as it is turning to 'merde'.
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If anyone from KLM/AF does get to read this... After a year I'm still waiting for my name to be corrected on my FF account. It was fine under KLM but since the merger my name has been screwed up by a typo along the way. So I could no longer use fast check in, had to queue up each time as my card name didn't match my ticket name.
Apparently this is MY problem and I've got to do the chasing to sort it out. E-mails and letters to Amsterdam and Paris. Faxes. Talking nicely to the people at check-in, ticketing, lounges at MAN and AMS has got me absolutely nowhere.
I know it is only a small point BUT it has pushed me to other airlines...
Apparently this is MY problem and I've got to do the chasing to sort it out. E-mails and letters to Amsterdam and Paris. Faxes. Talking nicely to the people at check-in, ticketing, lounges at MAN and AMS has got me absolutely nowhere.
I know it is only a small point BUT it has pushed me to other airlines...
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Ahh, gone are the days when you arrived at a Crown Lounge at Schiphol prior to or after a 10 hour flight, greeted by a pleasant face at the reception, knackered and wanting to taking a shower, use their rather comfortable revolving (clean every time) toilet seat and have a hot snack. And then you realise you have lost your laminated FF card attached to your briefcase. Now you have a belligerent 50-something who (obviously ain't getting enough sex from her old man) almost questions your justification to be in a lounge and ushes you away ready for the next customer. Dare you ask her to order a new card for you - WHAT?! Is that discontentment with the job or what. (Rarely) no more hot snacks and I miss the amusing toilet seat. Now I only look forward to peeing on the fly in the urinals - (ladies, get your fella to explain it next time you drop by AMS).
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Originally Posted by Bus429
I've just sent KLM a link to this site - doubt it'll do any good.
LF
Está servira para distraerle.
For some time I lived near a UK regional airport from which it used to be comparatively easy to fly to Schiphol and then onwards, on KLM, to Johannesburg or other global points. It was never a particularily pleasant experience, flying with KLM, irrespective of which class, but it was very convenient. Certainly it beat having to position to Heathrow.
Now, after too many problems with the company, characterised in particular by an appalling attitude problem right across the board, but which seems to get worse the higher up the pecking order one goes; we position to LHR and drift down to JHB or anywhere else for that matter, on any carrier except KLM.
In fact, so unhelpful, unobtainable and obnoxious were KLM in Johannesburg, the last time we used them, that we actually ditched the return section of our tickets and came back on Platignum.
The final straw in this sorry saga of the demise of a good airline was the incredible intransigence I experienced when trying to use my accumulated KLM Air Miles. In my case, at any rate, not worth the vapour to blow them to hell.
Oh yes, just as a minor aside, I know that Holland is quite a small country of some 41k sq kms, with quite a small population of about 17m, but surely the airline could produce ground and flight staff who were pretty as well as being rude?
Está servira para distraerle.
Okay then,~~~ quiver, quiver~~~. Flaps 40 is a moderator, works for KLM, isn't pretty, is rude or is Dutch? Sounds quite fearsome in any event, any further elucidation forthcoming?
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I know we could discuss delayed baggage all day, but a now amusing memory came back to me reading Bus' woes. About three years ago I made a flight from Eastern Europe to BHX via AMS. I only checked in (my favourite) flight bag as it was for a couple of nights stay - it never arrived. KLM did not give me compensation as I was returning to domocile country etc and it was not worth my insurance after excess. Anyway, about 16 MONTHS!! later there was a knock on my door and I chap from their handling agents at the time proudly held my bag over his shoulder. 'I believe this is yours, sir'. My delight that everything was still there including an old newspaper from my flight out. Now where had that bag been hiding for over a year? For the record, in a period of 2 years, that chap couriered over from BHX, delayed bags to my house a good 6 times - 120km distance involved.
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It is currently 1600L at AMS and I'm killing time until my flight to NCL at 2100. On checking in (KLM seems to be encouraging every pax to use self-service with baggage drop), I was b*ll*cked for not using the correct lane for normal check-in. I am now surprised if KLM staff are polite!
You will all be glad to know I got my bag back last night (delivered to my hotel) but absolutely no apology from KLM. If I ever win the lottery, I'm going to buy KLM and shut it down! (it cannot be worth very much).
You will all be glad to know I got my bag back last night (delivered to my hotel) but absolutely no apology from KLM. If I ever win the lottery, I'm going to buy KLM and shut it down! (it cannot be worth very much).
Last edited by Bus429; 13th Jul 2006 at 15:58.
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Bus429
I agree with you about KLM/Air France 100%. As a result of my experiences I exercise my right as a consumer not to give them my (or my employers) money wherever practically possible. Not a problem for KLM flights as their network is limited but I am sometimes obliged to use AF from SXB-CDG because nobody else flies that route. Would I be right in assuming your continued use of KLM, despite your clear unhappiness with their service, is due to a similar lack of competition ?
The organisation I work for is a well known European organisation based in SXB, in any one year staff and associated individuals are doing 12-15000 journeys per year. We have a travel agancy permanently based on our premises who work exclusively for us (CWT at the moment) About 25 years ago 90% of all our airline travel was with Airfrance but today this stands at 5% (cash terms) and this represents staff trips to Paris, though we try to encourage them to take the train. Most of the reduction in AF useage is driven by economic factors, mainly because both Austrian and Lufthansa have targeted SXB and have made themselves more competitive than AF.
My point being that the market always prevails, AF have escaped these cruel realities for longer than most airlines because of the massive subsidies they've received, both direct and indirect, plus all the cozy "grey" agreements with other French ground operators. The success of AF today is built on such arrangements and the hangars full of gleaming new Airbus have been funded by Mme et M. French taxpayer. They will, eventually, have to compete on equal footing with some of the better run European Airlines and when this day comes they will die.
The other point in my organisation is that we give people a lot of autonomy over which route (and therefore which airline) they use and one of the reasons they avoid AF is because of the feeder policy they have which means you always have to go to Paris, and now, to Amsterdam before picking up the main route.
To conclude, if you want to change things then vote with your wallet and your feet....
I agree with you about KLM/Air France 100%. As a result of my experiences I exercise my right as a consumer not to give them my (or my employers) money wherever practically possible. Not a problem for KLM flights as their network is limited but I am sometimes obliged to use AF from SXB-CDG because nobody else flies that route. Would I be right in assuming your continued use of KLM, despite your clear unhappiness with their service, is due to a similar lack of competition ?
The organisation I work for is a well known European organisation based in SXB, in any one year staff and associated individuals are doing 12-15000 journeys per year. We have a travel agancy permanently based on our premises who work exclusively for us (CWT at the moment) About 25 years ago 90% of all our airline travel was with Airfrance but today this stands at 5% (cash terms) and this represents staff trips to Paris, though we try to encourage them to take the train. Most of the reduction in AF useage is driven by economic factors, mainly because both Austrian and Lufthansa have targeted SXB and have made themselves more competitive than AF.
My point being that the market always prevails, AF have escaped these cruel realities for longer than most airlines because of the massive subsidies they've received, both direct and indirect, plus all the cozy "grey" agreements with other French ground operators. The success of AF today is built on such arrangements and the hangars full of gleaming new Airbus have been funded by Mme et M. French taxpayer. They will, eventually, have to compete on equal footing with some of the better run European Airlines and when this day comes they will die.
The other point in my organisation is that we give people a lot of autonomy over which route (and therefore which airline) they use and one of the reasons they avoid AF is because of the feeder policy they have which means you always have to go to Paris, and now, to Amsterdam before picking up the main route.
To conclude, if you want to change things then vote with your wallet and your feet....
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SXB,
Where I have a choice, I will not use KLM. Unfortunately, our customers often book our flights for us so we have to use KLM.
Unfortunately, brand loyalty counts for nothing with KLM. I used them almost exclusively for 2.5 years flying between HEL and NCL. Having not flown with them for about 9 months, I received an Ivory Frequent Flyer card with a covering letter saying I had been demoted from Elite Silver or whatever it is/was called.
Arrogant as well as stupid.
Where I have a choice, I will not use KLM. Unfortunately, our customers often book our flights for us so we have to use KLM.
Unfortunately, brand loyalty counts for nothing with KLM. I used them almost exclusively for 2.5 years flying between HEL and NCL. Having not flown with them for about 9 months, I received an Ivory Frequent Flyer card with a covering letter saying I had been demoted from Elite Silver or whatever it is/was called.
Arrogant as well as stupid.