Brace position

[Nath]

Is the brace position we're supposed to take upon crashing designed to save our lives or end our suffering quicker?

Just wondering.

[wingman863]

I can't say that I'm exactly an authority on the issue but are you actually serious?

[teeteringhead]

Keeps the head attached to make the dental ID easier.....

[Onan the Clumsy]

Good question though. If safety realy was inportant, there'd be five point harnesses with backwards facing seats and doors like Soutern Region.

[Hangar3]

Depends on which brace position you mean, there are several different ideas.

Your head is going to hit the seat in front of you anyway so you may as well put it nearer to reduce the acceleration forces upon contact......

[Lord Snot]

Those two mincers on "Myth-Busters" did a busting session on the brace position. They got some wallahs to sit in a mock-up and assume the position before the entire arrangement was dropped from a height onto the ground.

When the dust had settled it emerged that they slightly less intense permanent back difficulties if they used the position.

As a long-term sceptic, I was moved.

The real question is, if they can make the black box (aka flight data recorder) out of light-weight indestructible materials, why not make the entire aircraft that way?

[con-pilot]

That and smoke hoods for all the passengers. However as usual it comes down to cost. Rear facing seats cost more and are heavier than the standard airline seat. Same thing for the 5-point harness, cost.

To answer your question the brace position is to keep your head from slamming into the seat in front of you which is likely to break your neck.

[Ozzy]

Expanding on this thread, is there any record of a commercial flight ditching in a) the sea/ocean or b) a body of water and the majority of the pax surviving by getting out, inflating their life vests, and getting into a survival raft? I've always wondered if the life vests demo is entirely worthwhile.

Ozzy

[bear11]

What do you mean, supposed to take? With some LCC seat pitches these days, you have to assume the position just to fit in the seat - you can see the impression of a nose on the seatback in front of you from the person who sat before. Two hours later, you can't feel your feckin' legs, and you're supposed to get out, inflate your life vest, etc? It'd probably be a small mercy if you were landed at an airport and they blew the slides - you wouldn't feel your legs break as you came off the slide even if you made it out of the aircraft in the first place.

<RANT MODE OFF>

[cessna l plate]

You learn something new every day. I always thought it was so you could kiss your a**e goodbye!!

Sorry, but what do you expect engaging in a meaningful debate in JB?

[Onan the Clumsy]

Rear facing seats cost more and are heavier than the standard airline seat.

I'm not sure why they would cost more Con. I thought the problem was that pax didn't like to sit facing backwards. Sort of a glass half empty glass half full thing.

WN used to have those club seats and it was a little uncomfortable on climb out if you were facing backwards, though it did give you an opportunity to look up the skirt of the woman sitting opposite

[Loose rivets]

The army use to make us take the seats out, then put them all back in again...facing the other way for our trooping contracts.

Soldiers are all brave, so they didn't squeal when we rotated. Well, not many of them anyway. However, the spontaneous clutching of the armrests, did cause them to drop their armory. The cabin crew spent considerable time each flight, retrieving hand-grenades, rifles and daggers from the back of the cabin and returning them to the men.

Cries like "I had a blue hand-grenade... " took up a lot of extra time.

[MMEMatty]

Smoke Hoods and Lifejackets

Could they not design it so that the lifejackets had a smoke hood built into the back, and the lifejacket only inflated when it came into contact with water?

That way you have one pack for two purposes, and you avoid the situation of silly pax inflating their life jacket when inside the a/c.

Also, im sure i watched a prog about how lifejackets by the nature of their design swung you round so you were facing into the swell, making it that much more difficult to breathe as the waves hit you. In this situation, the smoke hood would keep the water off your face.

See? Full of good ideas me.

Matt

[flugholm]

I had a talk with a mate of mine who runs certification tests on aircraft seats. The subject was childrens seats and restraints. He said that holding a baby in front of your stomach during a crash is a good thing.

Not for the baby -- it gets crushed to death.

But it does help the other person!

[DaveO'Leary]

I know, most people are going to jump on me about the cost, cost aside, why not incorporate air bags (as in cars) behind each seat.

I'm ready for a roasting.

DO'L

[Ozzy]

why not incorporate air bags (as in cars) behind each seat.

At least the plane would stay afloat upon hitting the sea....

Ozzy

[ChrisVJ]

Ozzy
Yes, quite a few, includinga Super Constellation ditched mid Atlantic where every single person was saved.

[Crepello]

There's another point to bracing, and it's a bit squeamish: People have survived incidents but been unable to release safety belts because their arms were both broken. Bracing can reduce the risk of this.

Airbags are a nice idea (fnarr) but equipment levels reflect cost, weight, practicality and - the big one - the probability of need. The chances of a passenger jet making a forced landing on water are miniscule, so it's equipped with basic life jackets or just floatation cushions. (And in many areas, the cold will kill you before the water). Conversely, the risk exposure's higher in a North Sea helicopter so the norm is immersion suits, insulating layers, enclosive lifejackets (MMEmatty's design ) air rebreathers and sometimes 4-point restraints.

If I felt the need, I wonder if I'd be allowed to to travel in a crash helmet...

[con-pilot]

Onan, that is what I thought as well. However when I was with the Marshal Service we decided to turn some of the seats around so the guards could better watch the prisoners on takeoffs and landings. So like a typical government agency we went ahead and tried to turn the seats around, well guess what, you can't just turn them around. (The FAA got real upset with us, not that they could have done a lot about it however. )

With rear facing seats the the bracing for G loading is entirely different and the seats heavier due to the additional framework and more expensive due to the additional metal brackets needed for a body's G loading spread over the entire back rest of the seat.

That is probably why all of Southwest Airlines new aircraft have done away with the club style seating arrangement that was installed on the older aircraft. (Now that is just a guess about Southwest mind you.)

[PaperTiger]

Originally Posted by ChrisVJ

Yes, quite a few, including a Super Constellation ditched mid Atlantic where every single person was saved.

Well it was a Boeing Stratocruiser, and the Pacific Ocean but otherwise you're spot on (google "Sovereign of the Skies").
Several Connies have but ditched with varying numbers of fatalities in every case unfortunately.

Apologies for a serious post.