Why crash upright?
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Estonia
Why crash upright?
Why should all seats be upright on takeoff and landing?
In economy, it makes sense that seatbacks recline into someone else´s escape path.
But what about premium classes? The seatbacks are often fixed shells, so reclining the seat does not enter the legroom behind. The footrests might enter escape paths - not even that for the window seats - but the space is surely more spacious than in upright economy rows anyway.
So, should the premium seats be upright on takeoff/landing?
In economy, it makes sense that seatbacks recline into someone else´s escape path.
But what about premium classes? The seatbacks are often fixed shells, so reclining the seat does not enter the legroom behind. The footrests might enter escape paths - not even that for the window seats - but the space is surely more spacious than in upright economy rows anyway.
So, should the premium seats be upright on takeoff/landing?
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Cebu, Philippines
I'm not an expert however I would imagine that in the event of an evac being required, then with seat backs being reclined it would be awkward and time consuming to get out from behind a reclined seat. Also, I guess it is easier to get up from a sitting position than from a semi-reclined position.
Agreed J class seats are often hard shelled so I think it is an across-the board requirement, no discrimination.
Agreed J class seats are often hard shelled so I think it is an across-the board requirement, no discrimination.
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Bangkok, Thailand
In common with a few fellow travellers, I suffer back pain. If in the reclined position, it can take a few minutes after getting upright again before I regain full flexibility. There's no problem from a sitting position, since the pressure is already back on the spine. I for one, wouldn't want to have to move quickly from a reclined position in the event of an evacuation.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: UK
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack
So, should the premium seats be upright on takeoff/landing?
PPRuNe Handmaiden
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From: Duit On Mon Dei
It's to facilitate evacuation as has been said. It's difficult enough to get people to comply with 1 set of instructions let alone there being different instructions for different parts of the cabin.
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: U.S. East Cost and Europe (travelling too much, and at home in both)
Ok, if it is for evac, which I understand, why start so early? On most recent transatlantic flights, announcement for "seats upright" was 20 min. before landing.
Hello? If we crash from 10,000 feet, evac is unlikely.
Let me sleep until 5 minutes before landing, please
Hello? If we crash from 10,000 feet, evac is unlikely.
Let me sleep until 5 minutes before landing, please
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Cebu, Philippines
I think some people do, FlyingConsultant! It's not good though as you should be awake during descent to clear your ears. Really.
I think the 20 minutes or so before landing is because the cabin crew have to tour the cabin to make sure everyone has complied (amongst doing other things) and not leave anything until the last minute. I'm not cabin crew so I am hazarding a guess. There are always some that have their tray tables and seats reclined up to the last minute (and trying to go to the loo on short finals) which I believe really is a safety issue.
I think the 20 minutes or so before landing is because the cabin crew have to tour the cabin to make sure everyone has complied (amongst doing other things) and not leave anything until the last minute. I'm not cabin crew so I am hazarding a guess. There are always some that have their tray tables and seats reclined up to the last minute (and trying to go to the loo on short finals) which I believe really is a safety issue.
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: LGW
The airline I work for usually does this at approximately 15 minutes before landing. Unfortunately, at times, the cabin crew are on their feet still when the landing gear has been lowered, this is due to the SLF not complying with the instructions that have been issued over the PA (Seat backs upright, arm rests down, window blinds open, tray tables stowed, seat belts fastened - toilets out of use etc).
Perhaps FlyingConsultant is a good passenger and complies with instructions straight away, unfortunately though, the vast majority of passengers I encounter don't comply. If we left it until 5 minutes before landing, we would still have passengers and crew on their feet for touchdown - and whilst I wouldn't mind trying to stay on my feet for a touchdown, I don't really want to do that with passengers onboard in case we had to evacuate (I will save that for a positioning flight or an empty sector
)
We really do need around about 15 minutes to secure the cabin because you can guarantee that on every landing you will have several passengers do the following:
1. Attempt to go to the toilet once the seat belt sign comes on (I refer to the seat belt sign as the 'International get up and go to the toilet sign')
2. Argue with crew when you say raise your window blinds (Why do I have to raise my window blind? - So you can tell if the engine is on fire sir or Because after we have crashed, the Fire Brigade will know whether they can safely cut thru the window by you without taking your head off sir)
3. You say loudly to female passengers on 3ABC to put their bags under their seats, then you get to 4ABC and say the same, then 5ABC (This is when I think the passengers must think 'Oh, that can't apply to me, that is for them - but I am ME so my bag doesn't need to go under my seat')
4. Have the asleep passenger who is so drowsy that you need to do almost everything for them (because the poor little dear is too tired to fasten their belts, bring their seats upright etc etc.)
And before anyone wonders, I do love my job and the passengers, its just that some flights really are like the examples above - and it really does make you think that the passengers on these flights SHOULD NOT be allowed out on their own
Perhaps FlyingConsultant is a good passenger and complies with instructions straight away, unfortunately though, the vast majority of passengers I encounter don't comply. If we left it until 5 minutes before landing, we would still have passengers and crew on their feet for touchdown - and whilst I wouldn't mind trying to stay on my feet for a touchdown, I don't really want to do that with passengers onboard in case we had to evacuate (I will save that for a positioning flight or an empty sector
)We really do need around about 15 minutes to secure the cabin because you can guarantee that on every landing you will have several passengers do the following:
1. Attempt to go to the toilet once the seat belt sign comes on (I refer to the seat belt sign as the 'International get up and go to the toilet sign')
2. Argue with crew when you say raise your window blinds (Why do I have to raise my window blind? - So you can tell if the engine is on fire sir or Because after we have crashed, the Fire Brigade will know whether they can safely cut thru the window by you without taking your head off sir)
3. You say loudly to female passengers on 3ABC to put their bags under their seats, then you get to 4ABC and say the same, then 5ABC (This is when I think the passengers must think 'Oh, that can't apply to me, that is for them - but I am ME so my bag doesn't need to go under my seat')
4. Have the asleep passenger who is so drowsy that you need to do almost everything for them (because the poor little dear is too tired to fasten their belts, bring their seats upright etc etc.)
And before anyone wonders, I do love my job and the passengers, its just that some flights really are like the examples above - and it really does make you think that the passengers on these flights SHOULD NOT be allowed out on their own
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Dublin
Flying consultant....Ok, lets try it this way....an 8 hour flight, is 20 mins before landing really that early??? a couple of hundred passengers need to be checked, galleys need to be cleared and secured, bags need to be placed into over heads and floors checked that there are not bits and bops that could cause people to slip, headsets (depending on airline) needed to be collected, toilets need to be checked and then the crew need to be in their seats generally 10 to 5 mins before landing....Thats why we do it at 20mins before hand...beleive me, its the most rushed part of the flight! Id prefer if we did it at 30 mins on a full 747 or 777!!!
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: deepest Bedfordshire
And don't forget the overhead lockers.... if there is sufficient force at the moment of impact, the lockers can be ripped from tehir fastenings and fall downwards (once some come away, there will be a ripple effect pulling them all down). On a full flight, there is a lot of weight in the lockers to do some serious damage..its better if the weight is spread over the seat back tops.you may sustain some injury but will still have the ability to crawl to safety....
Joined: May 2001
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From: south of Cirencester, north of Lyneham
In BA Club World, the landing position is actually less upright than it's possible to get. I like the BA announcement to the effect that there's x minutes to go before the seat belt sign comes on, so now is the time to go to the lavatory. That seems to work. Well, I'll see tomorrow when I get into LHR..
Sims Fly Virtually
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From: Used to be 3rd Sand Dune from the Left - But now I'm somewhere else somewhere else.
Originally Posted by radeng
there's x minutes to go before the seat belt sign comes on, so now is the time to go to the lavatory...
Along with "if you're too
stupid that you don't know how to switch off your Jawwal (mobile) than please take the friggin battery out" [/rant]
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Newbury, UK
The requirement for upright seating is simply to ensure that in the event of a crash or sudden stop, that the seat belt is effective. If you are reclined, you can 'submarine' under it and it can slip to a point where it can cause you serious injury.
Virgin UC pax are allowed to have their seat in any position because the seat belt also contains an airbag. BACW have the seat sslightly reclined as this is the most effective angle for the seatbelt.
Virgin UC pax are allowed to have their seat in any position because the seat belt also contains an airbag. BACW have the seat sslightly reclined as this is the most effective angle for the seatbelt.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: UK
Originally Posted by wiggy
BA do exactly that with a "40 minutes to go" call.
