Getting Bumped up!
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Re: Getting Bumped up!
Jeez, watching you lot giving it large to each other - no wonder my missus comes in totally p*ssed off some nights, if this is anything like what she has to endure on the check-in/ticket desk 
I can see both sides of the argument, but airline rules are airline rules - and the staff break them at their peril. It won't ever be the passenger who loses a job because of it.
I can see both sides of the argument, but airline rules are airline rules - and the staff break them at their peril. It won't ever be the passenger who loses a job because of it.
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Re: Getting Bumped up!
yeh, there are two sides to every argument and rules is rules as they say. We don't go out of our way to say 'no' to an op-up. It would be great if everyone could sit at the front for nothing and we could say 'yes' to every upgrade request wouldn't it, would make our jobs a lot simpler. It doesn't keep an airline in business though now does it?
Paxing All Over The World
Re: Getting Bumped up!
YOU are in a SERVICE industry.
... you might question why, when seats have been available, the airline doesn't UG and change supplier.
This question gets asked with such monotonous regularity that the person who started this thread really needs a gentle kicking.
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Re: Getting Bumped up!
Agent x - maybe not - but, being realistic, I don't think that the issue of a few free upgrades is going to exactly put the airline into receivership either.
I presume you and Striparella are recipients of staff travel? How many times have you heard of 'so-and-so' getting an upgrade on staff travel because 'they knew someone on the desk', or 'the dispatcher is a mate of mine' etc etc. Happens all the time - I've seen it, and even done it myself when I was airline staff. (And the travelling public are well aware of it.)
I don't ever remember seeing upgraded staff members offer to sit at the back instead, and offer the upgrade to somebody else in order to generate a bit of goodwill/repeat business perhaps/help the Company profits - do you? And if you're on ID100 you're not paying anything at all into the coffers in the first place - but I bet you won't turn down an upgrade if you can get one.
Whilst I do not wish to stick up for Kremmen, as I said before, I can see both sides of the argument. Punters will always chance it and ask, and agents should always follow the Company line on the issue. Perhaps the Company could provide an information leaflet at check-in, so that those who take umbrage at being refused an upgrade can read the Company rules regarding upgrades, along with the address for Customer Service if they want to take the matter any further? Should get the agent right out of the loop, and keep the friction to a minimum. Just a thought.
I presume you and Striparella are recipients of staff travel? How many times have you heard of 'so-and-so' getting an upgrade on staff travel because 'they knew someone on the desk', or 'the dispatcher is a mate of mine' etc etc. Happens all the time - I've seen it, and even done it myself when I was airline staff. (And the travelling public are well aware of it.)
I don't ever remember seeing upgraded staff members offer to sit at the back instead, and offer the upgrade to somebody else in order to generate a bit of goodwill/repeat business perhaps/help the Company profits - do you? And if you're on ID100 you're not paying anything at all into the coffers in the first place - but I bet you won't turn down an upgrade if you can get one.
Whilst I do not wish to stick up for Kremmen, as I said before, I can see both sides of the argument. Punters will always chance it and ask, and agents should always follow the Company line on the issue. Perhaps the Company could provide an information leaflet at check-in, so that those who take umbrage at being refused an upgrade can read the Company rules regarding upgrades, along with the address for Customer Service if they want to take the matter any further? Should get the agent right out of the loop, and keep the friction to a minimum. Just a thought.
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Re: Getting Bumped up!
As harsh as it is, there is a difference between staff and revenue pax. I give 100% whenever i'm at work - i do everything and more that i'm asked of, i put up with temper tantrums, 50+ business men shouting and swearing, i've been called every name under the sun by pax whose hand luggage is too heavy so feel i am entitled to my cheap stand by seat and if i'm upgraded fab - if not, who cares?
But if i paid for Y seat, i would NEVER expect an op-up just because i've put my best shirt on or i've got an important meeting in the morning or it's my honeymoon.
My airline has leaflets about upgrading and staff selling them on the floor before check in. If check in staff were told before each shift, "Hey we've ten spare seats in business, upgrade who you like" Believe us we would upgrade the honeymoon couple or the man who needs to sleep before his meeting, but it doesn't work like that and obviously in this case it's hard to face the truth!
And like PAXboy said the question is asked with such monotony it's a wonder some staff manage to stay positive and polite when badgered about it. Some pax wont let it go!
But if i paid for Y seat, i would NEVER expect an op-up just because i've put my best shirt on or i've got an important meeting in the morning or it's my honeymoon.
My airline has leaflets about upgrading and staff selling them on the floor before check in. If check in staff were told before each shift, "Hey we've ten spare seats in business, upgrade who you like" Believe us we would upgrade the honeymoon couple or the man who needs to sleep before his meeting, but it doesn't work like that and obviously in this case it's hard to face the truth!
And like PAXboy said the question is asked with such monotony it's a wonder some staff manage to stay positive and polite when badgered about it. Some pax wont let it go!
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Re: Getting Bumped up!
Originally Posted by Kremmen
Oh dear. If I spent £3000 on a bottle of wine I might believe that my supplier would furnish a little something extra at Christmas. You would be amazed at how clients react (and RETURN!) when you go the extra mile.
If done on an occasional basis, but only when you need to (his normal selection has sold out, and the stratospherically-priced bottle is the only wine left in the shop) you might engender some goodwill by doing this.
But if you do anything to create an expectation in the customer that he will get a £250 bottle of wine for £10 just because he's a regular customer, you're creating a monster that's very difficult to control or satisfy.
The analogy isn't exact, because as Paxboy says airline seats are highly perishable commodities, which wine isn't, but the idea that a free UG is like chucking in an extra tube of Pringles isn't right either.
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Re: Getting Bumped up!
Originally Posted by AlphaWhiskyRomeo
On another ocassion I was upgraded by CO, they told me they needed an extra seat in Y class, and because my ticket cost was very expensive, they would move me up to C class. Very nice of them, but did they need to tell me why they were bumping me up?!
If the airline has a business seat to upgrade into, and needs a Y seat, which of the many economy passengers do they choose to upgrade?
It could make sense to pick a passenger who has bought a full-price economy ticket rather than a discounted economy ticket. AND tell the passenger why. He, and others who hear his story, might be encouraged to buy a full-price economy ticket rather than a discounted one next time.
It makes sense for the airline to tell that buying economy ticket without discounts gives a good chance for upgrades. It is not so profitable for the airline to make it known that asking for an upgrade, or knowing an agent, gets upgrades without any extra revenue for the airline.
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Re: Getting Bumped up!
As harsh as it is, there is a difference between staff and revenue pax. I give 100% whenever i'm at work - i do everything and more that i'm asked of, i put up with temper tantrums, 50+ business men shouting and swearing, i've been called every name under the sun by pax whose hand luggage is too heavy so feel i am entitled to my cheap stand by seat and if i'm upgraded fab - if not, who cares?
To try and bring this thread to a close, if an airline needs to upgrade people on the day here are some tips that will help in your favour.
1.) Dress smartly - burberry caps need not apply.
2.) Be a frequent flyer, top level moves first.
3.) Have a high fare ticket, full economy moves before discounted.
4.) Never, ever ask.
5.) Try and say please and thank you. We lowly ground staff really do appreciate it. You'd be amazed the number of people who don't use it. (That goes for staff too.)
And then if we need you to move you're more likely to get the nod.
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Re: Getting Bumped up!
Originally Posted by Cyrano
So for this problem scenario to happen, Mr Foxile and Miss X have to buy tickets (in their unmarried names) sometime before the wedding, and then Miss X has to stop off at the Passport Office en route from church to airport to replace her Miss X passport with a new "Mrs Foxile" passport (which she needs a marriage cert to obtain). 
As far as upgrades go, the reason why passengers insist on asking for them is because we all know they have been granted before. Rarely these days perhaps, but still a fact. If the airlines never did free upgrades then no one would ask for one. I know that my supermarket has never upgraded a bottle of wine to a more expensive one at the till, so I don't ask.
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Re: Getting Bumped up!
Globaliser:
And Kremen
With the wine analogy you both seem to be missing a step out by assuming that the upgrade is given once /the full price is paid once respectively(although you are using the analogy to illustrate opposing points of view).
What the wine analogy shows is that if a customer regularly buys £20 bottles of wine (business) but also regularly buys £5 bottles of wine (economy) then 'upgrading' his wine for free may backfire. If it is done once and it is this that causes the customer to come back then it won't be long before he is disgruntled that it hasn't happened again (as I said IF that was the reason he kept coming back - if it was for other reasons then there was no need to entice him as such in the first place).
If you then 'upgrade' his wine regularly (to keep him coming back) he will soon buy expensive wine less frequently as there is a good chance he will get it for £5 anyway.
Fair enough, on the occasions when he MUST have decent wine he may still pay, but there is likely to be a sliding scale and a lot of occasions where he would like it but it is worth the risk.
Eventually the wine shop notices that although the customer comes back regularly their profits are down and the customer realises at the end of a particularly ropey bottle of Bulgarian Cab Sav whilst trying to impress a lady friend that he shouldn't have gambled and bought a full price one - or goes into the shop with a fiver and because he needs an expensive bottle that day gets into 'discussions' with the owner, leaves with a cheap bottle and the memory of an unpleasant scene and gos to Tescos next time anyway!
Maybe one can take an analogy too far (but I want a drink now anyway
)
a customer who buys £10 bottles of wine on a weekly basis, and one day giving him a £250 bottle for his £10 instead of his normal selection.
If I spent £3000 on a bottle of wine I might believe that my supplier would furnish a little something extra at Christmas
What the wine analogy shows is that if a customer regularly buys £20 bottles of wine (business) but also regularly buys £5 bottles of wine (economy) then 'upgrading' his wine for free may backfire. If it is done once and it is this that causes the customer to come back then it won't be long before he is disgruntled that it hasn't happened again (as I said IF that was the reason he kept coming back - if it was for other reasons then there was no need to entice him as such in the first place).
If you then 'upgrade' his wine regularly (to keep him coming back) he will soon buy expensive wine less frequently as there is a good chance he will get it for £5 anyway.
Fair enough, on the occasions when he MUST have decent wine he may still pay, but there is likely to be a sliding scale and a lot of occasions where he would like it but it is worth the risk.
Eventually the wine shop notices that although the customer comes back regularly their profits are down and the customer realises at the end of a particularly ropey bottle of Bulgarian Cab Sav whilst trying to impress a lady friend that he shouldn't have gambled and bought a full price one - or goes into the shop with a fiver and because he needs an expensive bottle that day gets into 'discussions' with the owner, leaves with a cheap bottle and the memory of an unpleasant scene and gos to Tescos next time anyway!
Maybe one can take an analogy too far (but I want a drink now anyway
)
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Re: Getting Bumped up!
Originally Posted by Ropey Pilot
Globaliser:
And Kremen With the wine analogy you both seem to be missing a step out by assuming that the upgrade is given once /the full price is paid once respectively(although you are using the analogy to illustrate opposing points of view).
What the wine analogy shows is that if a customer regularly buys £20 bottles of wine (business) but also regularly buys £5 bottles of wine (economy) then 'upgrading' his wine for free may backfire. If it is done once and it is this that causes the customer to come back then it won't be long before he is disgruntled that it hasn't happened again (as I said IF that was the reason he kept coming back - if it was for other reasons then there was no need to entice him as such in the first place).
If you then 'upgrade' his wine regularly (to keep him coming back) he will soon buy expensive wine less frequently as there is a good chance he will get it for £5 anyway.
Fair enough, on the occasions when he MUST have decent wine he may still pay, but there is likely to be a sliding scale and a lot of occasions where he would like it but it is worth the risk.
Eventually the wine shop notices that although the customer comes back regularly their profits are down and the customer realises at the end of a particularly ropey bottle of Bulgarian Cab Sav whilst trying to impress a lady friend that he shouldn't have gambled and bought a full price one - or goes into the shop with a fiver and because he needs an expensive bottle that day gets into 'discussions' with the owner, leaves with a cheap bottle and the memory of an unpleasant scene and gos to Tescos next time anyway!
Maybe one can take an analogy too far (but I want a drink now anyway )
And Kremen With the wine analogy you both seem to be missing a step out by assuming that the upgrade is given once /the full price is paid once respectively(although you are using the analogy to illustrate opposing points of view).
What the wine analogy shows is that if a customer regularly buys £20 bottles of wine (business) but also regularly buys £5 bottles of wine (economy) then 'upgrading' his wine for free may backfire. If it is done once and it is this that causes the customer to come back then it won't be long before he is disgruntled that it hasn't happened again (as I said IF that was the reason he kept coming back - if it was for other reasons then there was no need to entice him as such in the first place).
If you then 'upgrade' his wine regularly (to keep him coming back) he will soon buy expensive wine less frequently as there is a good chance he will get it for £5 anyway.
Fair enough, on the occasions when he MUST have decent wine he may still pay, but there is likely to be a sliding scale and a lot of occasions where he would like it but it is worth the risk.
Eventually the wine shop notices that although the customer comes back regularly their profits are down and the customer realises at the end of a particularly ropey bottle of Bulgarian Cab Sav whilst trying to impress a lady friend that he shouldn't have gambled and bought a full price one - or goes into the shop with a fiver and because he needs an expensive bottle that day gets into 'discussions' with the owner, leaves with a cheap bottle and the memory of an unpleasant scene and gos to Tescos next time anyway!
Maybe one can take an analogy too far (but I want a drink now anyway
)Vinegar from £20 wine is not more valuable than vinegar from £5 wine.
So, what should the shop do when they notice that the "Use By" date on their best, most expensive wines is approaching, and they are not selling well enough at their real value?
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Re: Getting Bumped up!
Ok, I've stayed away from this for a while after asking what i thought was an innocent question.
Once again i thank all of you for the replies and am amazed at the 'emotion' it has caused from certain quarters.
HOWEVER, i do take offence when someone suggests that i get a
.
I to work in the aviation industry except it is not so much a customer facing role.
I asked the question out of curiosity.....now quite frankly i wish i hadn't!
End of topic please moderator.
Once again i thank all of you for the replies and am amazed at the 'emotion' it has caused from certain quarters.
HOWEVER, i do take offence when someone suggests that i get a
gentle kicking
I to work in the aviation industry except it is not so much a customer facing role.
I asked the question out of curiosity.....now quite frankly i wish i hadn't!
End of topic please moderator.
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Re: Getting Bumped up!
Tired flyboy
If you want to get rid of the thread I believe all you have to do is delete the initial post. Howver I, for one, have found some of it quite amusing
If you want to get rid of the thread I believe all you have to do is delete the initial post. Howver I, for one, have found some of it quite amusing
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Re: Getting Bumped up!
Ropey Pilot, I agree this has been a most entertaining thread... I never have the balls to ask for a free upgrade, and certainly won't in future!
But I do like some of the analogies.
I bought a knock down pizza from Morrisons last night, 50p off becuase it was a day away from its sell by date. I wasn't going to buy a pizza at all, but since it was cheap and could be frozen, I did. So the shop got a sale, and possibly broke even on the deal rather than binning the pizza, which is effectively what the airlines do after taking off with empty seats. So maybe they should sell off the empty seats at knock down prices at the last minute to people who didn't necessarily want to travel at that time.....
oh wait a minute, that's a standby ticket isn't it?!?!?! ;-)
Seriously though I've never understood the standby system, and it never seems to be an option when i book on line. How do you buy standby tickets, and can you get them in higher classes?
But I do like some of the analogies.
I bought a knock down pizza from Morrisons last night, 50p off becuase it was a day away from its sell by date. I wasn't going to buy a pizza at all, but since it was cheap and could be frozen, I did. So the shop got a sale, and possibly broke even on the deal rather than binning the pizza, which is effectively what the airlines do after taking off with empty seats. So maybe they should sell off the empty seats at knock down prices at the last minute to people who didn't necessarily want to travel at that time.....
oh wait a minute, that's a standby ticket isn't it?!?!?! ;-)
Seriously though I've never understood the standby system, and it never seems to be an option when i book on line. How do you buy standby tickets, and can you get them in higher classes?
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Re: Getting Bumped up!
^ Sell off empty seats at knockdown prices?
No-one would buy ANY seats and there would be a stampede at the airport!!
Stand-by for rev-pax at my airline is ONLY when they have missed their original flight, and the one they want to travel on is oversold, so they stand by and wait for the hope that when the flight closes for main check in, there are some seats from people who haven't turned up.
You cannot buy a stand by ticket on my airline unless you are a staff member. Airlines would go bankrupt if it were a normal option to the rest of the world!
No-one would buy ANY seats and there would be a stampede at the airport!!
Stand-by for rev-pax at my airline is ONLY when they have missed their original flight, and the one they want to travel on is oversold, so they stand by and wait for the hope that when the flight closes for main check in, there are some seats from people who haven't turned up.
You cannot buy a stand by ticket on my airline unless you are a staff member. Airlines would go bankrupt if it were a normal option to the rest of the world!
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Re: Getting Bumped up!
My my, everyone has well and truely thrown their rattles out of the pram on this one!! There have been many odd analogies flying about (I particularily like the frozen pizza from Morrisons one!!!) but no one seems to have mentioned the most obvious and basic fact. If it was just as simple as asking for an upgrade and it being granted on a space availability system, why on earth would anyone pay full fare for a J class seat! As lowly crew, it never fails to amuse me when pax ask for an upgrade on board and, when they are declined, say " But I can see you have empty seats!" as though it's a waste to have them there. Striparella is right when she says the product has to be protected and if I'd paid £4000 for an upper class seat and ended up sitting next to someone who'd paid a tenth of that, I might be a little annoyed!
Paxing All Over The World
Re: Getting Bumped up!
tired-flyboy my apologies, I should have looked at your profile before writing. It's just that we have had soooo many drongos doing a fly-by and asking the question, that those of us who habitually hang out in this cabin, find it irritating! 
However, on this occasion, the replies have been even stronger than before and this may well tell us more about the state of the airline biz than the last time the question was asked.
However, on this occasion, the replies have been even stronger than before and this may well tell us more about the state of the airline biz than the last time the question was asked.
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Re: Getting Bumped up!
Apology accepted PAXboy (although no need really my skin is a bit thicker than that)
Varga Girl sums it up best:
Her indoors and i have been having the same discussion about houses and the like (what with the new governement regs on house building) and i think i'll just sit back and follow the advice of Lexxity and leave it at that.
Thanks one and all
TFB
Varga Girl sums it up best:
...ended up sitting next to someone who'd paid a tenth of that, I might be a little annoyed!
Thanks one and all
TFB
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Re: Getting Bumped up!
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack
Vinegar from £20 wine is not more valuable than vinegar from £5 wine.
So, what should the shop do when they notice that the "Use By" date on their best, most expensive wines is approaching, and they are not selling well enough at their real value?
So, what should the shop do when they notice that the "Use By" date on their best, most expensive wines is approaching, and they are not selling well enough at their real value?
In any case, you'll shortly be tipping one bottle of vinegar down the sink anyway. If you don't upsell, it doesn't actually matter one jot which bottle of vinegar you're tipping down the sink. However, in the long term, it can harm you if your customers learn that whenever some vinegar's going down the sink they will get the £20 bottle for £5, because (as has already been said) they will stop buying £20 bottles, or buy them less often.
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Re: Getting Bumped up!
One approach is to try to upsell the £20 wine to the customer who's already bought the £5 bottle of wine
A two year old child can sell cheapo tickets for Ryanair at £10 each - it takes skill to sell the more expensive seats.
From the airline's business point of view, it's far better to sell 20 tix at £100 each than 100 seats at £20 each - and let the remaining 80 seats go empty!!! Less wear and tear, less meals to buy, less chances of baggage going astray - yet the same revenue!!!
Now - just supposing you could sell 20 seats at £100 each and, two days before travel, you sell 2 seats at £500 each!!! What a winner!!!
........and that, is the way the airlines should operate!!!