Monarch Dump Drunken Passenger on Island ( Merged)
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Re: Monarch Dump Drunken Passenger on Island ( Merged)
Originally Posted by Whiskey Zulu
Engineer, the 'individual' would not be charged by the local authority because the offense was commited in the air on a British registered a/c. The juristiction for prosecution therefore lies with the UK criminal justice system.
An a/c is only deemed that countries soverinty for things like child-birth and other legislation issues. Once the plane is 'wheels down' then is falls under the juristriction of the country that it is in.
Whilst your wondering what I am saying think about this. If the British police were after an American citizen at an airport, from what you are saying all they would have to do is get on a US registered plane and then we can't touch him? Thats a big negative. I might need the 'commander' of the aircrafts permission to go on and get him in non-pursiut/emergency situations, but I still have a power to board if an offence under the ANO has/is being committed.
Further to that if a FAM shot a male on a US registered plane and it landed at LHR, it would be investigated by the UK police at that airport in conjunction with the US Federal Government. Hopefully the IPCC wouldn't get involved....
FE
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Re: Monarch Dump Drunken Passenger on Island ( Merged)
Originally Posted by chrisN
When turning away a drunk "pap" (who dreamt that one up?) in order to meet the ANO, does the airline really "have" to empty the hold to get his/her luggage?
And if so, can't the resulting delay be a cause for both airline and delayed sober passengers to sue the aformentioned pap, so adding to his/her financial cost of such behaviour?
Time for a test case, perhaps?
Chris N.
And if so, can't the resulting delay be a cause for both airline and delayed sober passengers to sue the aformentioned pap, so adding to his/her financial cost of such behaviour?
Time for a test case, perhaps?
Chris N.
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monarch to sue drunk passenger
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...er/4584062.stm hope they succeed
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Re: monarch to sue drunk passenger
Abut time too!! For too long crew have had to take threeatening and abusive behaviour from passengers - wish other airline management would take heed!
Re: monarch to sue drunk passenger
Hold on a sec...
How did the pax get drunk? (At the airport probably)
Why was he allowed on the aircraft?
Was he served any more booze by the hosties?
Why did the captain not just continue the extra 30 minutes to the destination and then have him arrested?
Why are the costs incurred by a questionable command decision made by the captain being dumped on the pax?
This smells a bit fishy to me.
How did the pax get drunk? (At the airport probably)
Why was he allowed on the aircraft?
Was he served any more booze by the hosties?
Why did the captain not just continue the extra 30 minutes to the destination and then have him arrested?
Why are the costs incurred by a questionable command decision made by the captain being dumped on the pax?
This smells a bit fishy to me.
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Re: monarch to sue drunk passenger
Good. Maybe this prat is being made an example of, but frankly who cares? It's time that pondlife like this 'person' realised that there are other people on boards these flights, not just them, and if they decide to make peoples lives uncomfortable, or just plain unpleasant, then they must pay!
Re: monarch to sue drunk passenger
Training, whilst accepting there are two sides to every story, this may have had something to do with it
'It is alleged the passenger became aggressive towards cabin crew and fellow passengers onboard Monarch flight ZB558 from Manchester on 27 December.
"Despite repeated attempts by the crew to calm him, his disruptive behaviour continued and the decision to divert the flight was taken," the spokeswoman added.'
If I was on board an aircraft and a pax was being aggressive towards myself or others on the aircraft, if the Captain diverted to offload him/her, the captain would have my full support.
'It is alleged the passenger became aggressive towards cabin crew and fellow passengers onboard Monarch flight ZB558 from Manchester on 27 December.
"Despite repeated attempts by the crew to calm him, his disruptive behaviour continued and the decision to divert the flight was taken," the spokeswoman added.'
If I was on board an aircraft and a pax was being aggressive towards myself or others on the aircraft, if the Captain diverted to offload him/her, the captain would have my full support.
Supercalifragilistic
expialidocious
expialidocious
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Re: monarch to sue drunk passenger
Time for another merge with this thread :
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=204003
?
Memetic
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=204003
?
Memetic
Re: monarch to sue drunk passenger
Originally Posted by Training Risky
Why did the captain not just continue the extra 30 minutes to the destination and then have him arrested?
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Re: monarch to sue drunk passenger
Good stuff well done to Monarch and well done to the Captain in making this decision.He is in charge,listened to the cabin crew and took everyone's safety into consideration. 
.I had an incident on a BA flight and also had great support from both the Captain and my company.
Let's get the message across to these idiots.
WTDWL.
.I had an incident on a BA flight and also had great support from both the Captain and my company.Let's get the message across to these idiots.
WTDWL.
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Re: monarch to sue drunk passenger
Originally Posted by Training Risky
Why are the costs incurred by a questionable command decision made by the captain being dumped on the pax?
For example - A decision to divert due weather would incovenience customers and probably involve them in extra costs, but might be considered "questionable" at a later time, for a variety of reasons; Another Commander might conceivably reach a different decision given the same criteria at the same time. In the absence of an incident requiring an investigation, it is not possible accurately to determine who would be "right" and who "wrong".
I'm not looking for a punch-up on this: I'm just uncomfortable with the situation being second-guessed from a location remote in time and distance. I'm also posting a personal view, as Cabin Crew, and not as a moderator.
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Re: Monarch Dump Drunken Passenger on Island ( Merged)
Quite right, Tightslot, easy to make the decision from the comfort of your armchair days later, not so at the time.
Well done to the Captain concerned, I still feel he made the right decision and I hope I'd do the same in the circumstances. He may have just done us all a favour as an industry, with a clear message that this kind of behaviour is unacceptable and will be dealt with severely.
It is worth adding that he apparently clouted the CC with a meal tray, cutting her arm in the process. Still want this man on your flight for another 5 mins, let alone an hour?
Well done to the Captain concerned, I still feel he made the right decision and I hope I'd do the same in the circumstances. He may have just done us all a favour as an industry, with a clear message that this kind of behaviour is unacceptable and will be dealt with severely.
It is worth adding that he apparently clouted the CC with a meal tray, cutting her arm in the process. Still want this man on your flight for another 5 mins, let alone an hour?
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Re: Monarch Dump Drunken Passenger on Island ( Merged)
Originally Posted by Full Emergency
Not always. It depends on what local offences that he committed whilst the doors were open.
An a/c is only deemed that countries soverinty for things like child-birth and other legislation issues. Once the plane is 'wheels down' then is falls under the juristriction of the country that it is in.
Whilst your wondering what I am saying think about this. If the British police were after an American citizen at an airport, from what you are saying all they would have to do is get on a US registered plane and then we can't touch him? Thats a big negative. I might need the 'commander' of the aircrafts permission to go on and get him in non-pursiut/emergency situations, but I still have a power to board if an offence under the ANO has/is being committed.
Further to that if a FAM shot a male on a US registered plane and it landed at LHR, it would be investigated by the UK police at that airport in conjunction with the US Federal Government. Hopefully the IPCC wouldn't get involved....
FE
An a/c is only deemed that countries soverinty for things like child-birth and other legislation issues. Once the plane is 'wheels down' then is falls under the juristriction of the country that it is in.
Whilst your wondering what I am saying think about this. If the British police were after an American citizen at an airport, from what you are saying all they would have to do is get on a US registered plane and then we can't touch him? Thats a big negative. I might need the 'commander' of the aircrafts permission to go on and get him in non-pursiut/emergency situations, but I still have a power to board if an offence under the ANO has/is being committed.
Further to that if a FAM shot a male on a US registered plane and it landed at LHR, it would be investigated by the UK police at that airport in conjunction with the US Federal Government. Hopefully the IPCC wouldn't get involved....
FE
I didn't say that a US citizen is untouchable on a US registered a/c?? Nor did I say that a UK citizen is untouchable on a UK registerd a/c? The individual's nationality is irrelevant when discussing juristiction. On the aircraft, not moving or taxying, juristiction lies with state of local territory. Juristiction transfers to state of a/c registration once take off power has been applied. This is for prosecution purposes, nothing to do with police being able to board any a/c and remove an individual, OK?
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Re: Monarch Dump Drunken Passenger on Island ( Merged)
Originally Posted by Whiskey Zulu
The offence we are discussing took place in-flight on a UK registered a/c. Therefore, as I said, the juristiction for prosecution lies with the UK. Has anyone stated or read that the individual also committed any offence on the ground in Porto Santo?
I didn't say that a US citizen is untouchable on a US registered a/c?? Nor did I say that a UK citizen is untouchable on a UK registerd a/c? The individual's nationality is irrelevant when discussing juristiction. On the aircraft, not moving or taxying, juristiction lies with state of local territory. Juristiction transfers to state of a/c registration once take off power has been applied. This is for prosecution purposes, nothing to do with police being able to board any a/c and remove an individual, OK?
I didn't say that a US citizen is untouchable on a US registered a/c?? Nor did I say that a UK citizen is untouchable on a UK registerd a/c? The individual's nationality is irrelevant when discussing juristiction. On the aircraft, not moving or taxying, juristiction lies with state of local territory. Juristiction transfers to state of a/c registration once take off power has been applied. This is for prosecution purposes, nothing to do with police being able to board any a/c and remove an individual, OK?
Answer: False!! It was done two days ago, so I think you need to check your legislation.
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Re: Monarch Dump Drunken Passenger on Island ( Merged)
Originally Posted by Full Emergency
If that is the case, then from what you are saying, police could not arrest and proescute a male that had assaulted a member of the cabin crew and been abusive WHILST IN FLIGHT ON A US REGISTERED PLANE??
Answer: False!! It was done two days ago, so I think you need to check your legislation.
Answer: False!! It was done two days ago, so I think you need to check your legislation.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1997/19971768.htm
Last edited by Whiskey Zulu; 8th Jan 2006 at 17:17.
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Re: Monarch Dump Drunken Passenger on Island ( Merged)
Originally Posted by Whiskey Zulu
Unless you know of legislation that supercedes the Tokyo convention??
What happens if John Doe commits an offence against somebody on a XXX registered plane which lands in YYY, but XXX cannot be bothered to extradite that person. Does that mean John Doe gets away with it as YYY has no jurisdiction? Sounds a bit unlikely.