7 trolley dollies, one packet of crisps!
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Re: 7 trolley dollies, one packet of crisps!
Seven CC's does seem a bit extreme...maybe they were going home for the New Yr!!!
However I vote you fly 'Hooters' next time!
I think you may find the lack of cabin crew for emergency briefings....much less...as well as what the' laaaadies'
wear!!!
However I vote you fly 'Hooters' next time!
I think you may find the lack of cabin crew for emergency briefings....much less...as well as what the' laaaadies'
wear!!!
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Re: 7 trolley dollies, one packet of crisps!
Minimum crew for BA on an A321 is 5. Either one per pair of doors (4 sets), or one per 50 passengers, then one extra to allow crew to move about whilst the aircraft is on the ground (as Cabin crew need to stay closeby to their designated doors). As Keeperboy has suggested, the crew compliment increases depending on the loads.
Other possibilities are that a new crew member was operating their first flight so has to fly as additional crew, or the next sector the aircraft was due to operate was busier in Club and club receives an ehnanced service. Also often some crew leave the aircraft to nightstop, and the crew who will fly it back may have arrived on a smaller aircraft the night before, so there may only be 4 crew (A319). Which would need an extra one or two for the A321 to fly home. Trust me when I say what doesn't look logical usually is, and is an absolute nightmare to plan!
Now, regarding the catering. Putting domestic flights aside, which are still waiting to be settled, the catering you see now in Eurotraveller is how it will stay.
Factors deciding this were many:
Feedback from extensive questioning of customers, through on-line surveys and paper questionnaires.
Saving costs (BA have increased what they pay GG so need to balance overheads somewhere and are still trying to keep ticket prices down).
Streamlining the catering production to allow less wastage (the new products are longer life).
Differentiating further between Club and Traveller classes.
The amounts of wastage on the previous product was astronomical which spoke volumes about how unpopular it was.
The product where the customer could select a sweet or savoury treat was branded as difficult to deliver by the crew, and unhealthy or their choice unavailable by the passenger.
The bars are still available, and if the crew place soft drinks on top, its to advertise something other than juice and water, or because the crisps take up room in the trolley (longer European flights have wine displayed on top of the trolleys!).
Depending on the time of day (known as peak or off peak - ie mealtime or not) you should receive either a Sandwich, Cereal Bar or packet of handmade crisps. Club Europe should receive a tray with either breakfast, lunch, brunch, dinner or afternoon tea, depending on destination.
With feedback from customers, again this may change in the future, but technically the catering on anything with a short flighttime is classified more as a light refreshment than a meal, after all feedback suggested the majority of people didn't want airline food on short flights, just a drink.
Other possibilities are that a new crew member was operating their first flight so has to fly as additional crew, or the next sector the aircraft was due to operate was busier in Club and club receives an ehnanced service. Also often some crew leave the aircraft to nightstop, and the crew who will fly it back may have arrived on a smaller aircraft the night before, so there may only be 4 crew (A319). Which would need an extra one or two for the A321 to fly home. Trust me when I say what doesn't look logical usually is, and is an absolute nightmare to plan!
Now, regarding the catering. Putting domestic flights aside, which are still waiting to be settled, the catering you see now in Eurotraveller is how it will stay.
Factors deciding this were many:
Feedback from extensive questioning of customers, through on-line surveys and paper questionnaires.
Saving costs (BA have increased what they pay GG so need to balance overheads somewhere and are still trying to keep ticket prices down).
Streamlining the catering production to allow less wastage (the new products are longer life).
Differentiating further between Club and Traveller classes.
The amounts of wastage on the previous product was astronomical which spoke volumes about how unpopular it was.
The product where the customer could select a sweet or savoury treat was branded as difficult to deliver by the crew, and unhealthy or their choice unavailable by the passenger.
The bars are still available, and if the crew place soft drinks on top, its to advertise something other than juice and water, or because the crisps take up room in the trolley (longer European flights have wine displayed on top of the trolleys!).
Depending on the time of day (known as peak or off peak - ie mealtime or not) you should receive either a Sandwich, Cereal Bar or packet of handmade crisps. Club Europe should receive a tray with either breakfast, lunch, brunch, dinner or afternoon tea, depending on destination.
With feedback from customers, again this may change in the future, but technically the catering on anything with a short flighttime is classified more as a light refreshment than a meal, after all feedback suggested the majority of people didn't want airline food on short flights, just a drink.
Last edited by sixmilehighclub; 3rd Jan 2006 at 01:22.
Re: 7 trolley dollies, one packet of crisps!
"Now, regarding the catering. Putting domestic flights aside, which are still waiting to be settled, the catering you see now in Eurotraveller is how it will stay"
Well, thanks for the info - you've just lost another prospective passenger. Due to Lufthansa's timetable revisions, I was actually considering using ba for my next business trip as the mid-day LH BHX-FRA flight no longer connects properly with the FRA-FDH flight - whereas ba's does. But as the catering has obviously been dumbed down, I'll stay with the devil I know rather than switching.
Yes, we darn well do expect a proper service on European flights. Airlines which talk about 'products' rather than 'passenger service' are the ones to avoid.
Perhaps the best option from UK-FDH will turn out to be Ryanair from STN? Certainly it would be if it flew from BHX - and at least the flight would be quicker and wouldn't pretend to be anything other than a no-frills lo-co. Unlike ba.
Well, thanks for the info - you've just lost another prospective passenger. Due to Lufthansa's timetable revisions, I was actually considering using ba for my next business trip as the mid-day LH BHX-FRA flight no longer connects properly with the FRA-FDH flight - whereas ba's does. But as the catering has obviously been dumbed down, I'll stay with the devil I know rather than switching.
Yes, we darn well do expect a proper service on European flights. Airlines which talk about 'products' rather than 'passenger service' are the ones to avoid.
Perhaps the best option from UK-FDH will turn out to be Ryanair from STN? Certainly it would be if it flew from BHX - and at least the flight would be quicker and wouldn't pretend to be anything other than a no-frills lo-co. Unlike ba.
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Re: 7 trolley dollies, one packet of crisps!
Well you think the service is bad now wait until you see what BACX have up there sleeves!!!! should be announced V soon as cabin crew have been rostered training days in January to be taught new service rumour has it BACX are trialing the service before introduced at LGW
Last edited by marlowe; 3rd Jan 2006 at 08:44.
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Re: 7 trolley dollies, one packet of crisps!
Just a quick question......
With airfares at the level they are these days, what do people really expect in the economy cabin of a flight with a duration of less than 60 minutes???
I am seriously interested.....
With airfares at the level they are these days, what do people really expect in the economy cabin of a flight with a duration of less than 60 minutes???
I am seriously interested.....
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Re: 7 trolley dollies, one packet of crisps!
Originally Posted by keeperboy
Just a quick question......
With airfares at the level they are these days, what do people really expect in the economy cabin of a flight with a duration of less than 60 minutes???
I am seriously interested.....
With airfares at the level they are these days, what do people really expect in the economy cabin of a flight with a duration of less than 60 minutes???
I am seriously interested.....
Re: 7 trolley dollies, one packet of crisps!
Personally I thought the pre-April 2004 "Kaese oder Schinken?" ham or cheese rolls plus any complimentary drink as offered in Lufthansa Economy Class were spot on.
But not the current rubbish they offer in Economy. Which is marginally less awful than the bread and water they offered when the dumbed-down caterig first started in April 2004. The cabin crew termed it 'prison food' and used to bring everyone a customer comment card to fill in. It soon changed, but it's still cr@p - hard bun with limp lettuce and hard moustrap cheese plus any non-alcoholic drink, wine or beer.
But not the current rubbish they offer in Economy. Which is marginally less awful than the bread and water they offered when the dumbed-down caterig first started in April 2004. The cabin crew termed it 'prison food' and used to bring everyone a customer comment card to fill in. It soon changed, but it's still cr@p - hard bun with limp lettuce and hard moustrap cheese plus any non-alcoholic drink, wine or beer.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Re: 7 trolley dollies, one packet of crisps!
Originally Posted by sixmilehighclub
Now, regarding the catering. Putting domestic flights aside, which are still waiting to be settled, the catering you see now in Eurotraveller is how it will stay.
IMHO, the bottom of BA's market is usually choosing to pay more to fly BA than to fly the competition, as BA's cost base means that it cannot consistently deliver the low fares that other airlines do. BA's bottom-end pax are not people who will book away just because BA is £3 more than the nearest competitor's fare. They are people who will stick with BA even though it's £3 more, because they know that they will get a higher service level from BA. That's the strength of BA's appeal, and this stupid decision is throwing BA's USP down the drain.
There seems to me to be only one explanation for this desire to join the rush to the bottom, both in fares and service level. Unfortunately, that's a rush which will leave BA's short-haul in tatters. That explanation has little to do with any reasoned analysis of what BA's pax actually want and how they actually act, and much more to do with this being one step closer to the arbitrary 10% operating margin.
Come on, Waterworld: If you have a stickiness at the current margins but the business model is actually working well and delivering a distinctive product that people want to buy, give up the chimaeras!
Originally Posted by sixmilehighclub
The amounts of wastage on the previous product was astronomical which spoke volumes about how unpopular it was.
The product where the customer could select a sweet or savoury treat was branded as difficult to deliver by the crew, and unhealthy or their choice unavailable by the passenger.
The product where the customer could select a sweet or savoury treat was branded as difficult to deliver by the crew, and unhealthy or their choice unavailable by the passenger.
Originally Posted by sixmilehighclub
With feedback from customers, again this may change in the future, but technically the catering on anything with a short flighttime is classified more as a light refreshment than a meal, after all feedback suggested the majority of people didn't want airline food on short flights, just a drink.
Re: 7 trolley dollies, one packet of crisps!
Eurotraveller:
"In-flight service:
Our responsive and highly trained crew will take care of you throughout your journey.
On all of our European flights you can enjoy breakfast with fresh coffee and tea. For the rest of the day complimentary snacks and drinks are served appropriate to the time of day and length of flight."
Club Europe:
"Service:
Our dedicated Club Europe staff will take care of you throughout your journey providing a warm, responsive service.
In-flight dining:
Club Europe menus have recently been refreshed to provide even greater choice and more appropriate food than before. Customers can enjoy a full English or Continental breakfast; hot or cold meals for lunch and dinner and High tea. All meals are served with freshly ground coffee, teas or a full bar plus a range of warmed breads."
Main ba 'On board - In-flight meals' statement:
"Signature Style
British Airways seeks to take the best of world cuisine, finding inspiration from culinary circles, trends, fashion and art and then adapting these for delivery and presentation in an aircraft environment.
The British Airways 'Signature Style' offers a clear directional message for our in-flight food strategy. It illustrates our commitment, passion and dedication to creating new standards in an exciting, challenging and continually progressive industry."
So where in all this does it mention 7 cabin crew being employed to hand out bags of crisps? Might I suggest that you wake up and smell your 'freshly ground' coffee?
"In-flight service:
Our responsive and highly trained crew will take care of you throughout your journey.
On all of our European flights you can enjoy breakfast with fresh coffee and tea. For the rest of the day complimentary snacks and drinks are served appropriate to the time of day and length of flight."
Club Europe:
"Service:
Our dedicated Club Europe staff will take care of you throughout your journey providing a warm, responsive service.
In-flight dining:
Club Europe menus have recently been refreshed to provide even greater choice and more appropriate food than before. Customers can enjoy a full English or Continental breakfast; hot or cold meals for lunch and dinner and High tea. All meals are served with freshly ground coffee, teas or a full bar plus a range of warmed breads."
Main ba 'On board - In-flight meals' statement:
"Signature Style
British Airways seeks to take the best of world cuisine, finding inspiration from culinary circles, trends, fashion and art and then adapting these for delivery and presentation in an aircraft environment.
The British Airways 'Signature Style' offers a clear directional message for our in-flight food strategy. It illustrates our commitment, passion and dedication to creating new standards in an exciting, challenging and continually progressive industry."
So where in all this does it mention 7 cabin crew being employed to hand out bags of crisps? Might I suggest that you wake up and smell your 'freshly ground' coffee?
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Re: 7 trolley dollies, one packet of crisps!
Beagle did you not read the posts where the reasoning for crew levels were explained?
a) Crew levels are determined by the number of Club passengers booked on a flight.
b) The legal minimum on the A321 is 5 cabin crew, the BA maximum is 7. You will only ever find 7 cabin crew on a flight with a high Club load.
c) The crew matrix was formulated 'pre crisp service' so will probably be in the course of being re-evaluated as I type!
a) Crew levels are determined by the number of Club passengers booked on a flight.
b) The legal minimum on the A321 is 5 cabin crew, the BA maximum is 7. You will only ever find 7 cabin crew on a flight with a high Club load.
c) The crew matrix was formulated 'pre crisp service' so will probably be in the course of being re-evaluated as I type!
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Re: 7 trolley dollies, one packet of crisps!
Nope, just checked the A321 safety manual. The Jar-ops legal minimum on the A321 is 5, not 4. Odd I know, sort of throws the entire crew member per pair of doors out the window, but it is true. Apparently it is one crew member per pair of doors, plus a 'direct view' crew member to motivate passengers forward to doors 3 in the event of an emergency. (CAA website)
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Re: 7 trolley dollies, one packet of crisps!
You got a reference for that on the CAA website? Bear in mind that the BA manuals quote the Jar-Ops regulation that is relevant to that part of the manual, not the regulation itself. The 744 manual references the Jar-Ops regs when it says the minimum crew on the 744 is 12 (IIRC) whereas the actual minimum complement is about 8. I don't think Jar-Ops actually makes any mention of 1 crew member per pair of doors, just the 1 crew member for every 50 pax regulation.
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Re: 7 trolley dollies, one packet of crisps!
So what we all need to do is to carry on complaining the way that we did during the catering dispute. This is the direct link to the website form for complaints about "your travel experience". If you're a BA Executive Club member, log in first to pre-populate the form.
