Ryanair - really 'no frills?'
Too mean to buy a long personal title
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From: UK
slim_slag: Actually bealine, if you read what I posted you will see I do not differentiate between FR and BA service at the price levels I am prepared to pay, so I am hardly BA bashing.
FR themselves will gladly tell you that they provide less service than BA. So why try to puff one up, or denigrate the other?
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From: He's on the limb to nowhere
Let's not put words into people mouths Globaliser. Lets go straight to the horse and see what Ryanair have to say about their service compared to BA. The latest
6th Oct press release on FR web site says:
I am merely stating my opinion that, to me, there is no difference between FR and BA at the prices I pay. You, with your pro BA bias, take this to mean I am denigrating BA. Wouldn't it be just as reasonable to say that my thinking BA and FR are equivalent is denigrating FR??
6th Oct press release on FR web site says:
“Millions of passengers compare Ryanair and British Airways on a daily basis and more passengers chose Ryanair because of Ryanair’s lower prices, better punctuality, better passenger service and guarantee of no fuel surcharge ever”.
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From: london
I can't believe that someone is seriously suggesting that BA and Ryanair are equivalent. I mean, get a grip would you.
I personally think that getting my baggage checked through to my final destination, rather than picking it up and re-checking it in at every stop is a service worth it's weight in gold, maybe even more. (are you listening BMI?)
I guess the acid truth would be, at the same price flying to the same destination on a single leg, which would you choose: ryanair or BA? I'm guessing here, but I think most people would choose BA- seats are nicer/comfier/more leg room (only just!), staff are more helpful (and intelligent), food and drink free, better ground handling arrangements, and the guy in charge is not MOL (reason enough on its own).
Don't get me wrong, Ryanair is fine if you want it bog cheapo, but no sane person would ever say it is right up there with BA. That's just daft.
I personally think that getting my baggage checked through to my final destination, rather than picking it up and re-checking it in at every stop is a service worth it's weight in gold, maybe even more. (are you listening BMI?)
I guess the acid truth would be, at the same price flying to the same destination on a single leg, which would you choose: ryanair or BA? I'm guessing here, but I think most people would choose BA- seats are nicer/comfier/more leg room (only just!), staff are more helpful (and intelligent), food and drink free, better ground handling arrangements, and the guy in charge is not MOL (reason enough on its own).
Don't get me wrong, Ryanair is fine if you want it bog cheapo, but no sane person would ever say it is right up there with BA. That's just daft.
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From: Up, up and away
Another reason...
if a BAW plane goes tech, they'll get another one onto the apron ASAP. If a RYR goes tech, you get a grudging refund and lose your holiday!
If the load factor on a RYR is too low, they'll cancel the flight at short notice. Tough luck!
If a BAW has to divert, they'll pay for a bus to get you to your destination. RYR? You guessed it...
and don't forget about the rather creative city descriptions for the airports!
if a BAW plane goes tech, they'll get another one onto the apron ASAP. If a RYR goes tech, you get a grudging refund and lose your holiday!
If the load factor on a RYR is too low, they'll cancel the flight at short notice. Tough luck!
If a BAW has to divert, they'll pay for a bus to get you to your destination. RYR? You guessed it...
and don't forget about the rather creative city descriptions for the airports!
Too mean to buy a long personal title
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From: UK
slim_slag: I am merely stating my opinion that, to me, there is no difference between FR and BA at the prices I pay.
As for that press release, selective quotation is a wonderful tool for the disingenuous. That refers to BA's GG-related problems, not to BA's service levels generally.
If one were to indulge in the same game, one could offer this:-
1. What's your policy if I miss the last train home from the airport due to your aircraft arriving late?
Ryanair: Will not provide or pay for alternative transport.
British Airways: Will usually pay for or provide alternative transport to get you home.
2. If I am stranded abroad because the last flight of the evening is cancelled will you put me up in a hotel and pay my transport to the accommodation?
Ryanair: No
BA: Yes
3. If I am travelling, say, from Scotland to London, and have booked an onward flight with your airline but I miss the connecting flight because your first aircraft is delayed, will I incur any extra cost if getting on a later flight?
Ryanair: Passenger will have to pay for another flight.
BA: Three options: will carry you on another flight on which a seat is available; will re-route you to your final destination using either BA's services, those of another airline or other means of transport; or give you a refund for that flight sector.
4. If my flight is delayed and I have to wait in the airport, what refreshments are offered?
Ryanair: None.
BA: Refreshments after 90 minutes, a meal after 3 hours and return transport or overnight accommodation as appropriate after a 6-hour delay. May not apply if delay is beyond BA's control.
5. Do you offer compensation if your aircraft is delayed?
Ryanair: No compensation.
BA: Only under extreme circumstances, but will try to put passengers up in hotels, pay for meals and get them on next available flight.
Ryanair: Will not provide or pay for alternative transport.
British Airways: Will usually pay for or provide alternative transport to get you home.
2. If I am stranded abroad because the last flight of the evening is cancelled will you put me up in a hotel and pay my transport to the accommodation?
Ryanair: No
BA: Yes
3. If I am travelling, say, from Scotland to London, and have booked an onward flight with your airline but I miss the connecting flight because your first aircraft is delayed, will I incur any extra cost if getting on a later flight?
Ryanair: Passenger will have to pay for another flight.
BA: Three options: will carry you on another flight on which a seat is available; will re-route you to your final destination using either BA's services, those of another airline or other means of transport; or give you a refund for that flight sector.
4. If my flight is delayed and I have to wait in the airport, what refreshments are offered?
Ryanair: None.
BA: Refreshments after 90 minutes, a meal after 3 hours and return transport or overnight accommodation as appropriate after a 6-hour delay. May not apply if delay is beyond BA's control.
5. Do you offer compensation if your aircraft is delayed?
Ryanair: No compensation.
BA: Only under extreme circumstances, but will try to put passengers up in hotels, pay for meals and get them on next available flight.
Last edited by Globaliser; 9th October 2005 at 17:09.
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From: He's on the limb to nowhere
Now then Globaliser, if you re-read your own post, you will see I was not being disingenuous - just rebutting one of your points, and although I say it myself, quite effectively 
So, I have read your link and am wondering who the hell is this airline called Go ????
So, I have read your link and am wondering who the hell is this airline called Go ????
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From: Location, Location
Surely this is a false dichotomy. I can't recall ever being faced with a meaningful choice between FR and BA. In the rare cases where they serve the same destination (and I don't count Hahn/Frankfurt as such), I'm going to be swayed towards BA simply because it's a pain for me to get to Stansted (if I lived in Norwich, I might have a different opinion).
When I've been faced with a genuine choice between "full service" and "low cost" carriers, I've usually found that the fares differ by no more than 10% (hey, there must be a competitive marketplace in operation here). Even when BA are more expensive (which is by no means always the case), I'm more than prepared to accept the additional cost for the obvious reasons that have already been stated.
On the occasions where the low cost carrier offers the better service (eg direct flights from London to Aarhus or Tampere), I travel with them without a qualm (though I refuse to part with a fiver for a cheese roll).
When I've been faced with a genuine choice between "full service" and "low cost" carriers, I've usually found that the fares differ by no more than 10% (hey, there must be a competitive marketplace in operation here). Even when BA are more expensive (which is by no means always the case), I'm more than prepared to accept the additional cost for the obvious reasons that have already been stated.
On the occasions where the low cost carrier offers the better service (eg direct flights from London to Aarhus or Tampere), I travel with them without a qualm (though I refuse to part with a fiver for a cheese roll).
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From: He's on the limb to nowhere
Quite right Pax Vobiscum, there are a lot of variables, the airline itself is just one of many. In my opinion, the minimal differences between service levels here and there are not sufficient to alter my decision making process. I will go with the best value proposition, which is a mixture of total cost and total travel time from door to door. Seat pitch, airline quality food, and even a vague promise of putting me up in a hotel on the rare occasion things go wrong does not matter to me.
Short haul airlines in Europe are equivalent (which means being essentially equal with all things considered). You would pay more for BA, I wouldn't.
To bore you further, most of my short haul flights in the past 12 months have been on Easyjet, a few on Ryanair, and none on BA. My most recent was on SAS. That's not because I don't like BA, it's because BA never came out of my sieve as the best value proposition. Had they done so, I would have given them my money.
FR and BA compete head to head on LGW-DUB. Once you add up all the hidden charges levied by both airlines, the cheapest FR fare is approx 50% of the cheapest BA fare. FR have better redemption rules. The most expensive FR fare is about 10% more than the most expensive economy BA fare, and BA have better redemption rules. That shouldn't suprise anybody. But, more interestingly to me, the BA club fare is only 20% more than the most expensive FR fare. So would you pay that extra £60 to fly BA club as opposed to FR economy?
Never fall in love with a stock or an airline.
Short haul airlines in Europe are equivalent (which means being essentially equal with all things considered). You would pay more for BA, I wouldn't.
To bore you further, most of my short haul flights in the past 12 months have been on Easyjet, a few on Ryanair, and none on BA. My most recent was on SAS. That's not because I don't like BA, it's because BA never came out of my sieve as the best value proposition. Had they done so, I would have given them my money.
FR and BA compete head to head on LGW-DUB. Once you add up all the hidden charges levied by both airlines, the cheapest FR fare is approx 50% of the cheapest BA fare. FR have better redemption rules. The most expensive FR fare is about 10% more than the most expensive economy BA fare, and BA have better redemption rules. That shouldn't suprise anybody. But, more interestingly to me, the BA club fare is only 20% more than the most expensive FR fare. So would you pay that extra £60 to fly BA club as opposed to FR economy?
Never fall in love with a stock or an airline.
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From: Benelux
Well I have to go to Beziers. Choice of Charleroi to Carcassonne with RYR, or the more expensive Brussels to Toulouse with SN Brussels and a longer drive to Beziers. Guess what? I'm taking the SN Brussels route. I don't care how cheap RYR are, I won't fly with them. They are an insult to the industry!
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From: deepest Bedfordshire
Lala brit.... looks like this has just turned into debate about RYR...so hopefully this will help...
Strengths: simple (low cost) business model, yield management, single type fleet (B737), direct distribution (no travel agents), cash generating (cash in the bank is vital for an airline), well known brand, popular website generates advertising revenue
Weakness: Not too many to be honest (ignore the complaints about how they treat their staff, they are in business to make money), MOL can be a bit too voiciferous.... he needs to avoid doing a Gerald Ratner, business model can be weakened by high oil prices, secondary airports may restrict their market eventually.
Opportunities: Open Skies policy in Europe and opening up of eastern europe means there are plenty more airports welcoming them with open arms, franchising outside of Europe to generate additional revenue.
Threats: legacy airlines going low cost, new entrants to the market, other transport services eg rail..
Lots of other factors which affect all airlines: interest rates- most aircraft are financed, oil price, world stability eg war, terrorist actions affect tourism market, green campaigners (bit of a red herring in reality... we would all like to be green but who wants to travel less...), Government policy of airports (capacity etc).
The low cost model has proved extremely successful (RYR and EZY) being the biggest beneficiaries. Others have failed but the market is growing.
Try reading the Simon Calder book about the no frill sector.
Strengths: simple (low cost) business model, yield management, single type fleet (B737), direct distribution (no travel agents), cash generating (cash in the bank is vital for an airline), well known brand, popular website generates advertising revenue
Weakness: Not too many to be honest (ignore the complaints about how they treat their staff, they are in business to make money), MOL can be a bit too voiciferous.... he needs to avoid doing a Gerald Ratner, business model can be weakened by high oil prices, secondary airports may restrict their market eventually.
Opportunities: Open Skies policy in Europe and opening up of eastern europe means there are plenty more airports welcoming them with open arms, franchising outside of Europe to generate additional revenue.
Threats: legacy airlines going low cost, new entrants to the market, other transport services eg rail..
Lots of other factors which affect all airlines: interest rates- most aircraft are financed, oil price, world stability eg war, terrorist actions affect tourism market, green campaigners (bit of a red herring in reality... we would all like to be green but who wants to travel less...), Government policy of airports (capacity etc).
The low cost model has proved extremely successful (RYR and EZY) being the biggest beneficiaries. Others have failed but the market is growing.
Try reading the Simon Calder book about the no frill sector.
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From: Essex
In the past year I have flown with Ryanair around 20 times and BA once. The BA flight was to New York from Heathrow. This is definately not becasue I prefer Ryanair to BA. I would choose BA anytime but its simply convenience. When you can fly to Rome for £25 return with Ryanair from Stansted, and thats including all fees, taxes and charges then why would you pay well in excess of £100 to fly BA from Heathrow. That is only based on where I live (around 20 mins from Stansted so Heathrow is usually out of the question anyway for a short haul flight). The airport Ciampino that Ryanair fly to in Rome is actually much closer than then main airport that BA fly to. When ever I do fly BA I love the service you get, I think its just exciting to fly with them no matter what the circumstances are.
But when Ryanair offer flights so cheaply you normally don't mind the level of service you get. The only bad thing with Ryanair I have found to be is no seat numbers. In my view that is one of the only things dragging them down. If they simply had seat numbers then I generally think people would have a higher image of them.
I go the same place in the Costa Brava several times a year. I can either choose Ryanair from Stansted - Gerona for around £30 (the cheapest has ben £16 inc all taxes and charges) and then a 20 car trip. Or BA from Heathrow or Gatwick for around £100 and then over an hour car trip to get to Heathrow and then another hour once I get to Barcelona.
Finally, after my little rant, when Ryanair can fly you from London to the other end of Europe for less than a trian ticket into London from Essex then why would anyone not fly with them.
But when Ryanair offer flights so cheaply you normally don't mind the level of service you get. The only bad thing with Ryanair I have found to be is no seat numbers. In my view that is one of the only things dragging them down. If they simply had seat numbers then I generally think people would have a higher image of them.
I go the same place in the Costa Brava several times a year. I can either choose Ryanair from Stansted - Gerona for around £30 (the cheapest has ben £16 inc all taxes and charges) and then a 20 car trip. Or BA from Heathrow or Gatwick for around £100 and then over an hour car trip to get to Heathrow and then another hour once I get to Barcelona.
Finally, after my little rant, when Ryanair can fly you from London to the other end of Europe for less than a trian ticket into London from Essex then why would anyone not fly with them.
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From: LGW - Hub of the Universe!
when Ryanair can fly you from London to the other end of Europe for less than a trian ticket into London from Essex then why would anyone not fly with them.
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From: Essex
People can knock Ryanair all they want but you cannot fault their security or safety records. I have flown with them many many times and there has never been an issue at all with security. Sure, the service is not that great, you dont get a seat number. But as I said for flights that low there is no problem flying with them. And security has never been a problem with FR.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
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From: UK
jack_essex: People can knock Ryanair all they want but you cannot fault their security or safety records.
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From: LGW - Hub of the Universe!
By saying that you are questioning the professionalism of their employees, which I don't think that you can
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From: Earth (just)
well if the press said it - it MUST be true.....
....... and the "CAA" admonished them severely for the disgraceful, and unsafe, conduct of their pilots!!!????? - Do you know what you are saying here Bealine???? Substantiate this if you would please!
....... and the "CAA" admonished them severely for the disgraceful, and unsafe, conduct of their pilots!!!????? - Do you know what you are saying here Bealine???? Substantiate this if you would please!
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From: He's on the limb to nowhere
Its a real shame that they can't sort out a decent service that is comparable to full-service airlines. Imagine if they did and still offered cheaper tickets - what a product it could be then.
But their service does compare with the economy short haul service of other so called full service airlines. And that's because the 'full service' airlines have slashed their service level to compete. Flying BA in Europe is nothing like it was even 2 years ago, never mind 10.
Ryanair and Easy have actually got better over the past 2 years. Ryanair and Easy are still not Southwest, but they are getting closer. It's not inconceivable to me for Ryanair and Easyjet to get there in the next few years. I have no idea if that's in their business plan, but I think they could do it if they wanted to.
But their service does compare with the economy short haul service of other so called full service airlines. And that's because the 'full service' airlines have slashed their service level to compete. Flying BA in Europe is nothing like it was even 2 years ago, never mind 10.
Ryanair and Easy have actually got better over the past 2 years. Ryanair and Easy are still not Southwest, but they are getting closer. It's not inconceivable to me for Ryanair and Easyjet to get there in the next few years. I have no idea if that's in their business plan, but I think they could do it if they wanted to.