We'll unload your baggage

[Final 3 Greens]

This would not appear to be the case judging by the amount of very very simple and stupid questions asked on a daily basis

This epitomises the attitude at STN that has persuaded me to take my business to LCY.

Bunch of staff who think they are gods gift, because they can insult the paying public by referring to their legitimate questions as stupid.

What a customer service ethic - not.

[pzu]

Immediately POST 9/11

Problem boarding KLMuk from AMS to MME - had lost mislaid flight coupon & Boarding Card

Still held used ticket, but snotty KLM female wouldn't/couldn't process replacement in time to board flight

Tried saying bag was on flight - was emphatically told that it would be offloaded!!!

Some E30 later (admin charge) caught next flight to MME, went to collect Bag & surprise not there!!!

Went to commence Tracking/Claim procedure, and wonder of wonders bag already in the office!!!

This despite assurances given above, and fact that routing of bag had been

KRT - CAI - AMS - MME

Still waiting for an acknowledgement, never mind a reply from KLM


PZU - Out of Africa

Haven't flown KLM since!!!

[Tranceaddict]

Just for the record, 3 friends didn't make the plane from Malaga last year and their bags were not removed. I know because I had to take them home with me from Stanstead.

Pressume you were flying Malaga-Stansted then, can't coment on what happens in other countrys, and I'm not saying the system is 100%, but by law any passenger that does not travel SHOULD have their baggage removed as well, it's as plain and simple as that.

This epitomises the attitude at STN that has persuaded me to take my business to LCY.

Bunch of staff who think they are gods gift, because they can insult the paying public by referring to their legitimate questions as stupid.

What a customer service ethic - not.

People who can't read basic signs, or even interpret symbols (such as men and women pictures for toilets, and aeroplanes for guess what, getting to the aeroplanes etc) shouldn't be allowed to fly in the first place, imagine an incident on board and the crew asked them to follow basic instructions, would you want to be sitting next to them while their small brains tried to figure out the "would you mind leaving now sir" command from the cabin crew, whilst the flames licked around you, god help us if they had to open an over-wing exit!

[Final 3 Greens]

Tranceaddict

Words fail me in responding to your stunning arrogance.

The air travel sector is a SERVICE business - have you ever considered that you might be in the wrong job?

[419]

People who can't read basic signs, or even interpret symbols

So, are you saying that foreigners who can't understand English, dyslexic people etc, shouldn't be allowed to fly.

There are probably still a lot of people passing through our airports, that have never flown before, and for some of them, it's bound to be a very daunting experience.

Tranceaddict. Have you ever been through an airport in an Arabic country, with no signs in English, and usually no symbols. If you can't read Arabic, it can be very difficult to work out where to go.
Some of the questions you might have to ask would probably be considered stupid by the local staff.

[WHBM]

Well just like F3G here I try and use LCY instead of STN where possible, and I have commented here on PPRuNe in the past on the difference in attitude of the staff between the two airports. I am afraid I don't see anything in this discussion above to make me regret that decision.

[Tranceaddict]

Have I mentioned anywhere in any of my posts that I am not polite, courteous or helpful when asked these stupid questions?

Personally I always help any passenger who is in need of assistance (whether they ask or not) without patronising them or sarcasm, after 15 years of the same questions it does tend to wear you down, but I still answer with a friendly smile and wish them a pleasant journey.

Please don’t assume that all of us at STN are un-helpful people who don’t care about the industry we are in, believe me if I didn’t like it I would have got out years ago

Tranceaddict. Have you ever been through an airport in an Arabic country, with no signs in English, and usually no symbols. If you can't read Arabic, it can be very difficult to work out where to go.

No I haven't, but if I was going to I would research first (most airports have websites with maps etc) or even try and get a baasic understanding of words that may be helpful (exit, departurtes, security , check-in etc). Maybe thats from my scouting days and the motto "be prepared"

So, are you saying that foreigners who can't understand English, dyslexic people etc, shouldn't be allowed to fly

Can these people not understand symbols then! I would activley encourage everybody to fly, they pay my wages, I just wish people would prepare more if they have never done it before (I belive this to be true about anything in life, preperation prevents poor performance) as my old economics teacher use to say.

[419]

Personally I always help any passenger who is in need of assistance (whether they ask or not) without patronising them or sarcasm

when asked these stupid questions

So, you know the answer, and someone else does not, therefore you think it is a stupid question. I would say that that sort of attitude is patronising (def. treating somebody as if he or she is less intelligent or knowledgeable than yourself.) in the extreme.

If this is your attitude to customer service, it might be an idea to visit the local job centre, and look for a different job.

[ATNotts]

I was at Stansted on Monday awaiting an AB departure to Nürnberg, and was amazed by how many flights on just that pier were delayed by one or two PAX who couldn't make it to the gate in time, and in one case, couldn't stay awake long enough to get on their aircraft!

The staff seemed more than patient waiting for the errant passengers.

I do however feel very sorry for foreign (that is non native English speakers) using the airport, since there are absolutely no announcements made in anything other than english, the pronounciation of some destinations is dreadfull, and a lot of the announcements make no gramatical sence in english - e.g. "a last and final call"??

At the other end, in Nürnberg, all announcements are made in German and very good english! What's wrong with us?

[Irish Steve]

At the other end, in Nürnberg, all announcements are made in German and very good english! What's wrong with us?

Can't speak for STN, but for DUB, and they share at least one well known LoCo operator, most of the gate staff would probably be happier giving the flight departure announcements in Latvian rather than English, and with the quality of the PA in the A pier, it probably wouldn't make much difference

[Flip Flop Flyer]

PA Calls

Why have PA calls for boarding at all? Some airports are known to work quite well without them (CPH and AMS), thank you very much, whereas airports that should work probably, but don't, have them (LHR and FRA) on constantly. It only takes a few minutes of exposure to the constant waffling over the PA system for most of us to grow numb.

If passengers are unable to read a boarding card, and check the phalanx of screens availble for updates, the probably shouldn't be let out in public unsupervised.

I especially hate FRA, where the calls are made by a digitized voice. LHR? Oh please, spare me the agony of having to listen to yet another "This is the last and final call for BA flight 123 with service to Scumville. Will the last remaining passengers please present themselves to gate 567 without any delay." shortly followed by "Passengers X, Y and Z, please proceed immediately to gate 567 for BA flight 123 with service to Scumville. Failure to present yourselves immediatly will result in you and your baggage being off-loaded from this service". Again, and again and a-bluudy-gain!

Nah, give me a "silent airport" anyday, and if the public is too dim to understand they have to be at a specific point at a specific time, then off-load their bags and proceed without said dimwits.

PS
AMS and CPH does have calls for missing passengers, but that is a tiny fraction of the number of calls they could have made had they followed the "lead" from LHR/FRA etc. Boarding calls is soo 80s

[Tranceaddict]

Nah, give me a "silent airport" anyday, and if the public is too dim to understand they have to be at a specific point at a specific time, then off-load their bags and proceed without said dimwits.

well said

[Irish Steve]

Airport of the future??

Pax arrives at airport.

Check in, probably automated, and takes bags through security with them, where they are comprehensively screened and checked in the presence of the passenger.

Passenger takes bags to departure area.

At a predetermined time before departure, boarding area for the flight opens, and passenger passes through one way gate into boarding area, and hands bags over to staff for loading. Once in this area, there is no way back out again to airside, and it would need to have creature comforts like toilets, but that's about all that's needed 90%+ of the time.

At appropriate time not long after, flight boards and leaves without hassle, as any passenger that wasn't at the gate didn't board, and their bags didn't get into the aircraft.

Ok, it need a little refining to deal with larger aircraft that are bulk loaded, but I reckon it could make life a hell of a sight easier for all concerned, especially given the hassles with dishonest loaders, (and yes, they do exist, I worked for 3 years with some, including managers), crap internal airport systems, mis sorted bags, and all the other things that are raised here so often, and this way, many of the hassles of missing passengers, bags not loaded, and the like, suddenly are not an issue any more in the same way.

Other refinements are needed to cope with aircraft that goes tech after loading, or anything else that messes up the plan after the passengers are in the final departure lounge area.

OK, the airports will hate it, because the travelling public won't have as long to spend their hard earned cash in all the places that have been carefully designed to fleece as much as possible out of them.

Positive side is that flights should leave on time, without many of the hassles that happen now. The airlines should love it.

Discuss.....................................

[PAXboy]

I have often thought that the old design of airport, that the airlines take the bags from you when you arrive and get them to the plane, ought to be replaced by YOU get them to the plane.

If trolleys could go through any area (and we know they can be used on escalators) then - in the boarding lounge - the bags get scanned and sent down the chute to the a/c or to the place where they are loading containers. This would also help to ensure that heavy hand luggage goes down the chute!

OK, some will say that you will have to have more staff to load containers and a/c at all gates but you would save the staff handling (mishandling) and you would save the hyper expensive baggage handling system and pax would soon learn that schlepping a heavy bag around might not be such a good idea.

[Maude Charlee]

I'm sure one of the US lo-cos already has a similar system in place where pax deliver their hold bags at the aircraft. Anybody missing the flight clearly then has no bags in the hold and no need to delay the a/c departure whilst a baggage offload takes place.

Could easily work in this country, especially with most of the lo-co domestic flights as the majority of pax travel with hand luggage only. Average baggage load for most dom routes out of my local airport is 50% or less of the pax load.

[MonarchA330]

Irish steve,
How is this going to get ppl to the gate on time tho? A number of pax will still turn up just before the A/C is due to push, leaving the handlers with very little time to get a lot of bags on board. Add to this that their bags may have to go into separate bins on a larger A/C, they would have to leave all bins out until the last pax had arrived - then load all bins into A/C.
Add to this the MASSIVE queues at security, I really don't thik it would work at all.

[ATNotts]

My memory may be playing tricks, but I seem to recall the Illyushin 86 was designed so that passengers could carry out their hold luggage and stow it (or have it stowed) before they boarded.

I agree, if that helps eliminate those selfish passengers who seem to have no idea of what is a reasonable amount of carry-on baggage from trying to take fully laden Samsonites into the cabin, then it's a really good idea!

[PAXboy]

If a new terminal was designed around pax moving their own bags, then the space needed would be there. All the space used by the exisiting automated systems would not be needed. This would save space and money.

Pax are told to get to the gate and enter the area from which they cannot leave, other than evacuation. Their bags go directly down to be loaded from here. If pax arrive late - they do not board and still have their bags with them. The departure time could be published as being earlier than it is, just like today's schedules.

I'm not sure why MA330 thinks that you cannot load ANY bins until the last pax arrives?

However, this will never happen. The airports will not like this because they make more money out of selling high priced junk to pax waiting for departure. Especially when there are delays.

[Globaliser]

Two other difficulties with the idea:-

1. You would need to have a second security screening at the boarding area just before boarding, to ensure that items that are safe for checked baggage but not safe for cabin baggage are not in fact going into the cabin. This is not impossible to do - some airports already effectively do this - but the first security screening is bound to take much longer if pax are still attached to their checked baggage as well as their cabin baggage.
   
2. Amongst the facilities that could not be accessed after handing over checked baggage would be airline lounges. As the "gate closure time" under this model would have to be much earlier than it currently is, this would be a major blow to the profitable premium class traffic on which the industry largely depends. And the costs of providing parking space at the lounges for all lounge dwellers' checked baggage would be astronomical.

[Irish Steve]

A number of pax will still turn up just before the A/C is due to push

and will be unable to get into the departure area, as it will have closed at depart -20, so that all the necessary work, loading etc can be completed and the flight depart on time. I don't see that as unreasonable.

OK, in a very small number of cases, this isn't going to work, but there are very few flights these days where there are split bins, so loading them is still possible. Why do the premium lounges suffer, apart for the last 10 minutes or so. OK, so the pax keep their bags with them. the space saving at most airports would be huge, and operating cost a lot lower, there's no need for bag movement systems, and a lot less ramp vehicles needed to move things long distances.

If the arrivals level was split, then collection of bags could be at the gate too, which would make other aspects of the operation a lot simpler as well.