Diabetic man forced off BA flight
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This is a commercial link, but under the circumstances I hope the mods will let it stand. Portable freezer wallets are available to keep insulin cool for up to 45 hours.
And Rainboe, I suggest you rent the movie Casino and see what Joe Pesci can do with a 'safe' item.
And Rainboe, I suggest you rent the movie Casino and see what Joe Pesci can do with a 'safe' item.
Last edited by PaperTiger; 14th Mar 2005 at 19:57.
Rotate on this!
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Rainboe....honest question..please no flame...
Was the PAX intending to keep the kit with him in his hand luggage?
If so then the fridge question is irrelevant.
I appreciate that the CC were fully within their rights and appeared to to do all they could to help, (escort PAX to terminal to obtain Doc's Cert), - which as far as I am concerned negates any beef the PAX may of had. Perhaps the refusal to take advantage of this opportunity/offer raised CC's suspicion?
Apologies to others for not being a pilot yet posting.
Was the PAX intending to keep the kit with him in his hand luggage?
If so then the fridge question is irrelevant.
I appreciate that the CC were fully within their rights and appeared to to do all they could to help, (escort PAX to terminal to obtain Doc's Cert), - which as far as I am concerned negates any beef the PAX may of had. Perhaps the refusal to take advantage of this opportunity/offer raised CC's suspicion?
Apologies to others for not being a pilot yet posting.
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There appears to be a misapprehension amongst some of our posters, in that they think BA FC /CC can apply common sense in situations like this and "bend the rules" or "help the pax out" . What you must remeber is that we all know of BA employees losing their jobs for doing exactly that. Acting contrary to Flying Crew Orders is a sackable offence. Hence, nobody sticks their neck out, even though we all agree it is ludicrous. Do many of the above posters break their company rules to help peopl eout in their respective careers? Do you really want an airline pilot that is willing to bend/break the company Ops manual rules so readily? What next, ignoring MEL restrictions? After all, it is for the pax benefit.
Warning Toxic!
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Was the PAX intending to keep the kit with him in his hand luggage?
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In planning to do so, he had made no attempt to obtain proof from the Doctor that it was necessary for him to keep a potential lethal weapon on his person so that he could self-inject during the flight
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I don't think even a terrorist would be stupid enough to hi-jack a place with a syringe, unless he's completly demented.
But let's say (s)he does; I'm sure that the terrorist could easily be restrained, or the needle could be knocked out of his/her hands.
It wouldn't lead to that terrorist taking control of the aircraft, because let's be honest, the worst they could do with it is pick the lock on the cockpitdoor, something which can no longer be done.
The maximum a "syringe" terrorist would be able to do, would be to make a few people bleed.
There, now take a few minutes off the internet, get yourself a coffee, and stop worrying over a few drops of blood, and if you're flying right now, don't let somebody take over that 200 ton machine with something as simple as a needle, and you're on easy street.
But let's say (s)he does; I'm sure that the terrorist could easily be restrained, or the needle could be knocked out of his/her hands.
It wouldn't lead to that terrorist taking control of the aircraft, because let's be honest, the worst they could do with it is pick the lock on the cockpitdoor, something which can no longer be done.
The maximum a "syringe" terrorist would be able to do, would be to make a few people bleed.
There, now take a few minutes off the internet, get yourself a coffee, and stop worrying over a few drops of blood, and if you're flying right now, don't let somebody take over that 200 ton machine with something as simple as a needle, and you're on easy street.
Warning Toxic!
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Well hello Skylark! I don't think we want any advice from a pilot impersonator thank-you. With some of the garbage you have been posting as an alleged Dash-8 pilot, I think I can do without any more harebrained suggestions from you young man- you are truly a Walter Mitty and a bit demented! You can pretend to be a pilot, but not in my time please! You must understand it is dangerous when someone pretending to be a pilot starts handing out advice! Now run along please.
So LTNman doesn't think a syringe is a 'potentially lethal weapon'? Why have Security confiscated my nail scissors (from me as Captain of an aeroplane)? Might I hijack my own aeroplane and take it somewhere I don't want to go?
So LTNman doesn't think a syringe is a 'potentially lethal weapon'? Why have Security confiscated my nail scissors (from me as Captain of an aeroplane)? Might I hijack my own aeroplane and take it somewhere I don't want to go?
Last edited by Rainboe; 14th Mar 2005 at 22:06.
Helicopter Pilots Get It Up Quicker
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God! I hope no one here ever reveals the location or contents of the on board medical kit...
Had similar situation whilst working at LGW and CC were totally inflexible and insisted it was their decision whether the pax was allowed on board. I pointed out that maybe the commander of the aircraft might have a different view and I d go and consult with him... the pax flew on the flight much to the disgust of the CC.
A little knowledge or misunderstanding of the situation is dangerous to all involved and achieves nothing except pi$$ed off customers and news stories like this.
PW
Had similar situation whilst working at LGW and CC were totally inflexible and insisted it was their decision whether the pax was allowed on board. I pointed out that maybe the commander of the aircraft might have a different view and I d go and consult with him... the pax flew on the flight much to the disgust of the CC.
A little knowledge or misunderstanding of the situation is dangerous to all involved and achieves nothing except pi$$ed off customers and news stories like this.
PW
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The maximum a "syringe" terrorist would be able to do, would be to make a few people bleed
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I think what most of us diabetics are trying to say is: after many years of regular flying as diabetics, then fine if those are your rules then great we will play by them, but do not change the goal posts every time. ( see my earlier post)
If you want us to wave our piece of paper at the security boys, who will take not one iota of notice, then fine we will. If you want us to wave it at the cabin supervisor as we board and watch them panic then fine we will.
BUT BE CONSISTENT
25+ yrs of diabetes and have been asked 4 times for a letter and only twice has that been since 9/11
Most of us just want to get on, sit dwon, fly, inject feed, pee and then get off. We can do this without anyone needing to know and sure as hell do not need the whole cabin crew knowing.
A modicum of common sense is required - before long we will have medical boarding lines, where you take the Epipens off the allergy prone, warfarin away because it is actually a rat poison, take diuretics off people because it makes them pee more and that could be a problem because they get up more, stop epileptics boarding because they might have a fit. But please before oyu start doing that, take your bloody defibs and med kits off the plane, because they really are lethal weapons!
If you want us to wave our piece of paper at the security boys, who will take not one iota of notice, then fine we will. If you want us to wave it at the cabin supervisor as we board and watch them panic then fine we will.
BUT BE CONSISTENT
25+ yrs of diabetes and have been asked 4 times for a letter and only twice has that been since 9/11
Most of us just want to get on, sit dwon, fly, inject feed, pee and then get off. We can do this without anyone needing to know and sure as hell do not need the whole cabin crew knowing.
A modicum of common sense is required - before long we will have medical boarding lines, where you take the Epipens off the allergy prone, warfarin away because it is actually a rat poison, take diuretics off people because it makes them pee more and that could be a problem because they get up more, stop epileptics boarding because they might have a fit. But please before oyu start doing that, take your bloody defibs and med kits off the plane, because they really are lethal weapons!
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At this late time of the day I hesitate to state the obvious (to me at least) but if there is a perception that the rules/regs are wrong or that using experienced judgement may be "frowned upon" by the Company then we really are up Sh*t Creek. Having spent my life in active flying I find it hard to believe that my fellow aircrew find it all too easy to roll over and say that rules are rules and we will just follow them blindly. For the sake of the profession guys stand up and be counted. If you are really smart this need not be the end of your career.
Mods, why did you move this from the forum where pilots and captains in particular could read the comments of their passengers? It simply further isolates them from the demands of command. Or is command another casualty of todays commercial aviation?
femalesurgeon- right on
Mods, why did you move this from the forum where pilots and captains in particular could read the comments of their passengers? It simply further isolates them from the demands of command. Or is command another casualty of todays commercial aviation?
femalesurgeon- right on
Thread Starter
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I can't actually belive this thread has gone on to 5 pages after I posted it yesterday (Sunday). Anyhow, having said this, I'm still wanting to know something that no one has answered. Did CX not have problem transporting the gentleman without a letter?
Jordan
Jordan
Female surgeon
I am amazed to read this.
" United - rejected the letter as easily forgable. Then made me inject myself with insulin infront of them of a dose of their choosing. Then noticed there were two types of insulin and made me inject the other. "
Yes the letter is easily forgable, which makes the rules even more stupid. But for people with likely no medical training in the use of insulin to insist that a passenger inject themselves, twice, is highly irresponsible and totally unreasonable. I hope you complained to the airline in the strongest terms.
I am amazed to read this.
" United - rejected the letter as easily forgable. Then made me inject myself with insulin infront of them of a dose of their choosing. Then noticed there were two types of insulin and made me inject the other. "
Yes the letter is easily forgable, which makes the rules even more stupid. But for people with likely no medical training in the use of insulin to insist that a passenger inject themselves, twice, is highly irresponsible and totally unreasonable. I hope you complained to the airline in the strongest terms.
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Maybe the question is
"what about the diabetic terrorist with the doctor's note onboard with his/her syringe"
Would this pose such a security threat along with the 2 litre bottle of duty free purchased in the airport shop
Unless all terrorists are at the peak of physical fitness
"what about the diabetic terrorist with the doctor's note onboard with his/her syringe"
Would this pose such a security threat along with the 2 litre bottle of duty free purchased in the airport shop
Unless all terrorists are at the peak of physical fitness
Warning Toxic!
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Well maybe the only answer is to ban everyone carrying syringes on board. I can live with that. You have picked holes in the current regulations very well, so the only solution is ban 'em....ban 'em all!
Are we agreed that is the safest and easiest answer to the security problem of syringes on board? Maybe no? Well maybe one practical and realistic solution would be to ask them to possess a Doctor's letter about it. Can you think of any other?
Whatever- don't whinge at the crew or Security people about it! They HAVE to carry out the instructions from the TSA, the Security people, or they don't have a job. Go see your MP! To take on the airline or the Security staff, you might as well whinge to a Policeman about the fact he's booking you for speeding. It is not under his discretion to turn a blind eye or fail to follow Police procedure- those are the rules, and if you don't like it, you won't get far complaining to the Police or lawcourts.
Please- just get a bloodly note! It should solve the problem. Is it too much to ask?
Page 6 now! It's stunning!
Are we agreed that is the safest and easiest answer to the security problem of syringes on board? Maybe no? Well maybe one practical and realistic solution would be to ask them to possess a Doctor's letter about it. Can you think of any other?
Whatever- don't whinge at the crew or Security people about it! They HAVE to carry out the instructions from the TSA, the Security people, or they don't have a job. Go see your MP! To take on the airline or the Security staff, you might as well whinge to a Policeman about the fact he's booking you for speeding. It is not under his discretion to turn a blind eye or fail to follow Police procedure- those are the rules, and if you don't like it, you won't get far complaining to the Police or lawcourts.
Please- just get a bloodly note! It should solve the problem. Is it too much to ask?
Page 6 now! It's stunning!
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Rainboe,
Not being a regular user of BA. Where would the pax have found the reference to the Drs note requirement if he's not a net user.
I'm coming across more and more people now who dont use it because of all the scare stories about virii and trojans etc.
If the info isnt provided to the client on booking then it is something which should be looked at just like baggage weights etc.
Not being a regular user of BA. Where would the pax have found the reference to the Drs note requirement if he's not a net user.
I'm coming across more and more people now who dont use it because of all the scare stories about virii and trojans etc.
If the info isnt provided to the client on booking then it is something which should be looked at just like baggage weights etc.
'CARRY A DOCTORS'S LETTER'
Who knows if I wrote the 'doctor's letter' myself?
They can hardly telephone the doctor's surgery for confirmation unless it's between certain specified hours, - otherwise, they'll just get a recorded message.
So it seems that it's a case of 'let's be stupid because that's what the rules say', while a 'doctor's letter' is really about as much good as tits on a bull from a security viewpoint.
Now, isn't that a good way to end up deriding ALL security precautions?
Of course, at the end of the day, what is needed is people with a modicum of intelligence making security regulations, but that appears a vain hope.
Who knows if I wrote the 'doctor's letter' myself?
They can hardly telephone the doctor's surgery for confirmation unless it's between certain specified hours, - otherwise, they'll just get a recorded message.
So it seems that it's a case of 'let's be stupid because that's what the rules say', while a 'doctor's letter' is really about as much good as tits on a bull from a security viewpoint.
Now, isn't that a good way to end up deriding ALL security precautions?
Of course, at the end of the day, what is needed is people with a modicum of intelligence making security regulations, but that appears a vain hope.
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Rainboe- what part of this haven't you read. We have notes and you lot change the rules.
I am not endangering your life so don't endanger mine.
As for banning all people who carry meds - I think you will be bankrupt before you know it. And as for banning diabetics, kiss your profitable Asian routes good bye, because you have just kissed good bye to over 20% of your passengers!
I am not endangering your life so don't endanger mine.
As for banning all people who carry meds - I think you will be bankrupt before you know it. And as for banning diabetics, kiss your profitable Asian routes good bye, because you have just kissed good bye to over 20% of your passengers!
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I am amazed to read this.
" United - rejected the letter as easily forgable. Then made me inject myself with insulin infront of them of a dose of their choosing. Then noticed there were two types of insulin and made me inject the other. "
Yes the letter is easily forgable, which makes the rules even more stupid. But for people with likely no medical training in the use of insulin to insist that a passenger inject themselves, twice, is highly irresponsible and totally unreasonable. I hope you complained to the airline in the strongest terms.
" United - rejected the letter as easily forgable. Then made me inject myself with insulin infront of them of a dose of their choosing. Then noticed there were two types of insulin and made me inject the other. "
Yes the letter is easily forgable, which makes the rules even more stupid. But for people with likely no medical training in the use of insulin to insist that a passenger inject themselves, twice, is highly irresponsible and totally unreasonable. I hope you complained to the airline in the strongest terms.
rs !, if it was United and not in fact the security jobsworths. Overdosing insulin is as dangerous as not taking it and medical decisions of that sort cannot be made by mouth-breathing dimwits whatever uniform they happen to be wearing.(Feel much better now. Idiots.)
Last edited by PaperTiger; 15th Mar 2005 at 20:25.