FlyBe offload 30 pax on Glasgow - Belfast flight
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FlyBe offload 30 pax on Glasgow - Belfast flight
BBC News is reporting: Passengers taken off plane
Without prejudice, might I say "Well done to the crew !"
More than 30 passengers have been taken off a Flybe flight from Glasgow to Belfast after a group began behaving in a rowdy way.
The remaining passengers were flown to Belfast after a three hour delay on Wednesday night.
The 54 passengers had already boarded the plane bound for Belfast City Airport at about 2030 BST.
The captain then decided to off-load the aircraft in order to identify those causing the disturbance.
As a result, 37 passengers who were travelling in a group, were grounded in Glasgow.
The rest were flown back to Belfast via the international airport because of the later time.
Some of the passengers said the airline could have handled the situation better.
"I think it was a gross over-reaction from the pilot involved and in the current climate it is probably a product of the threat of terrorism," said one.
Another passenger said: "I travel with a number of airlines regularly every week and I would agree that this was a complete gross over-reaction.
"There wasn't even a request by the pilot or stewardesses for people to be quiet, to stop talking or lower the noise level.
"There was nothing which happened, other than people having a bit of banter with each other."
"I couldn't see any aggression or anything like that on the plane - all I heard was a few people cheering when someone moved seats and the next thing I knew we were all being taken off and delayed by over three hours" said another passenger.
Late departure
One of those on the flight said passengers had been "extremely inconvenienced" by the incident.
"This was all because of someone having a laugh and a joke on the plane.
"I couldn't see any aggression or anything like that on the plane. All I heard was a few people cheering when someone moved seats and the next thing I knew we were all being taken off and delayed by over three hours.
"The airline over-reacted and the worst thing was that no-one was kept informed."
Flybe said an investigation had already begun to establish what happened.
A spokesman said: "The captain discerned a strong smell of alcohol in the passenger cabin, and in the interests of passenger safety and comfort, he off-loaded the aircraft.
"Given the subsequent late departure of the flight it was diverted to Belfast international where passengers were bussed to Belfast City Airport on arrival.
"Passenger safety is paramount in all of Flybe's operations and an investigation is under way to ascertain the full circumstances of this incident.
"The 17 passengers who travelled should contact customer services in Exeter to seek a refund."
The remaining passengers were flown to Belfast after a three hour delay on Wednesday night.
The 54 passengers had already boarded the plane bound for Belfast City Airport at about 2030 BST.
The captain then decided to off-load the aircraft in order to identify those causing the disturbance.
As a result, 37 passengers who were travelling in a group, were grounded in Glasgow.
The rest were flown back to Belfast via the international airport because of the later time.
Some of the passengers said the airline could have handled the situation better.
"I think it was a gross over-reaction from the pilot involved and in the current climate it is probably a product of the threat of terrorism," said one.
Another passenger said: "I travel with a number of airlines regularly every week and I would agree that this was a complete gross over-reaction.
"There wasn't even a request by the pilot or stewardesses for people to be quiet, to stop talking or lower the noise level.
"There was nothing which happened, other than people having a bit of banter with each other."
"I couldn't see any aggression or anything like that on the plane - all I heard was a few people cheering when someone moved seats and the next thing I knew we were all being taken off and delayed by over three hours" said another passenger.
Late departure
One of those on the flight said passengers had been "extremely inconvenienced" by the incident.
"This was all because of someone having a laugh and a joke on the plane.
"I couldn't see any aggression or anything like that on the plane. All I heard was a few people cheering when someone moved seats and the next thing I knew we were all being taken off and delayed by over three hours.
"The airline over-reacted and the worst thing was that no-one was kept informed."
Flybe said an investigation had already begun to establish what happened.
A spokesman said: "The captain discerned a strong smell of alcohol in the passenger cabin, and in the interests of passenger safety and comfort, he off-loaded the aircraft.
"Given the subsequent late departure of the flight it was diverted to Belfast international where passengers were bussed to Belfast City Airport on arrival.
"Passenger safety is paramount in all of Flybe's operations and an investigation is under way to ascertain the full circumstances of this incident.
"The 17 passengers who travelled should contact customer services in Exeter to seek a refund."
I now have a reasonable resolution video phone. In cases where offloading is being contemplated I shall endeavour to film the cabin behaviour prior to offloading. It will give me great pleasure to present this in light of the usual passenger claims of "We were only having a laugh - they totally overeacted".
We all know what they are like.
Cheers
WWW
We all know what they are like.
Cheers
WWW
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So you two are pilots therefore the opinions of the affected pax are worthless as they dont share your pedastal. I hope you two never have to do a football charter, youll off load yourselves before you leave the crew room. At least one of you was a pax yourself not long ago.
Crew over reaction is a reality sometimes, inexperience as a captain, hiding behind safety and professionalism to disguise that inexperience , cabin crew lookin for trouble (drama where there isnt any).. all sorts of reasons. Having an ATPL and a pompous attitude doesnt exempt you from making mistakes or answering for them.
Maybe , just flybe the crew did over react, having spent a season up there and having done many celtic football flights, not to mention paxed on bfs gla easyjet full of orange thugs ( not the crew) my money is on an inexperienced skipper, an easily excitable cabin crew and an over reaction. The demographic of the crewing profile at that end of the market would suggest that such combinations are likely.
There are many noisy excitable people up there but they are generally respectful of maternal authority,ie a firm purser, merciless with gay stewards , cheekier than a ****house rat, but generally not a THREAT.
Ps cute women as well.
Crew over reaction is a reality sometimes, inexperience as a captain, hiding behind safety and professionalism to disguise that inexperience , cabin crew lookin for trouble (drama where there isnt any).. all sorts of reasons. Having an ATPL and a pompous attitude doesnt exempt you from making mistakes or answering for them.
Maybe , just flybe the crew did over react, having spent a season up there and having done many celtic football flights, not to mention paxed on bfs gla easyjet full of orange thugs ( not the crew) my money is on an inexperienced skipper, an easily excitable cabin crew and an over reaction. The demographic of the crewing profile at that end of the market would suggest that such combinations are likely.
There are many noisy excitable people up there but they are generally respectful of maternal authority,ie a firm purser, merciless with gay stewards , cheekier than a ****house rat, but generally not a THREAT.
Ps cute women as well.
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to FlyBE , Sure the reason was just , easy for drunkin banter to become a dangerous inflight situation with some more beer and at altitude. :
"I travel with a number of airlines regularly every week and I would agree that this was a complete gross over-reaction.
Group behaviour is really quite disturbing.
I dispatched a Celtic football flight last week and the thought did cross my mind. We offloaded one passenger but the rest were also borderline.
A spokesman said: "The captain discerned a strong smell of alcohol in the passenger cabin, and in the interests of passenger safety and comfort, he off-loaded the aircraft.
Air Navigation Order : Drunkenness in aircraft
52.—(1) A person shall not enter any aircraft when drunk, or be drunk in any aircraft.
52.—(1) A person shall not enter any aircraft when drunk, or be drunk in any aircraft.
Last edited by jonathang; 13th May 2004 at 12:19.
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Would it not be better if there no passengers allowed on board aeroplanes - we all know what they are like!
Better if they never make it past checkin to be honest.
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Hang on a min.. if there had been trouble, and Flybe had been saddled with costs involved / negative publicity etc etc.. who would have copped for it by making the decision to proceed with the flight?
No win situation for the Captain IMHO.
No win situation for the Captain IMHO.
dick - should an inexperienced Captain, when faced with cabin behaviour that gives him cause to consider offloading:
a) Offload
b) Decide to run with it
Genuine question.
Cheers
WWW
a) Offload
b) Decide to run with it
Genuine question.
Cheers
WWW
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My question is what happened in the gate? Were these pax angels in the gate who turned in to devils at the top of the a/c steps?
In my experience gate staff are very eager to get the pax on the aircraft and the problem off their hands. I am sure there are many reasons for this sort of action. BUT it’s much easier and quicker to sort the problem in the terminal than on board the a/c.
In my experience gate staff are very eager to get the pax on the aircraft and the problem off their hands. I am sure there are many reasons for this sort of action. BUT it’s much easier and quicker to sort the problem in the terminal than on board the a/c.
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I would have to agree with the sentiments above relating to how such a large group could be boarded onto the a/c and then require to be offloaded, without the problem being apparent beforehand.
These pax have to be handled by at least three separate individuals (check in, gate and dispatch) before they even reach the a/c, and then are boarded by the cabin crew. GLA to BFS is hardly a long flight, so how did these pax escape scrutiny before turning into undesirables so quickly mid-air?
Whilst I wouldn't expect a teenage, seasonal, female temp to make the decision to confront and deny boarding to the group, the information can certainly be passed up the chain to a duty supervisor/manager or airport security for further assesment and action. At the very least, the cabin crew and captain ought to be made aware of any suspicions relating to the fitness of pax to travel so that a considered decision can be made before the a/c leaves the stand.
Still, I suspose we're all wise old men with the benefit of hindsight.
These pax have to be handled by at least three separate individuals (check in, gate and dispatch) before they even reach the a/c, and then are boarded by the cabin crew. GLA to BFS is hardly a long flight, so how did these pax escape scrutiny before turning into undesirables so quickly mid-air?
Whilst I wouldn't expect a teenage, seasonal, female temp to make the decision to confront and deny boarding to the group, the information can certainly be passed up the chain to a duty supervisor/manager or airport security for further assesment and action. At the very least, the cabin crew and captain ought to be made aware of any suspicions relating to the fitness of pax to travel so that a considered decision can be made before the a/c leaves the stand.
Still, I suspose we're all wise old men with the benefit of hindsight.
The safety of the flight lies within the Authority of the Commander - everyone else can pass the buck but he. If he calls them off - then it shouldn't be up for PPRuNe analysis.
Particularly in the absence of nearly any facts.
Cheers
WWW
Particularly in the absence of nearly any facts.
Cheers
WWW
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Witchdoctor , good points.
However it’s not always that clear cut.
The passengers can just come across in good spirit initially.
Check-in agents are trained to warn passengers who turn up at check-in under slight influence of alcohol that they could be denied travel if they do not stop.
For the majority of the population this does work and a note can be entered into the system to say they were warned.
The passengers may have become worse after boarding the aircraft. I have seen passenger’s act sensible until they are passed the gate staff, because they know they are at risk of being offloaded.
The other more unfortunate reason could be the shear time factor. Unfortunately driving force in most turn-arounds. The fact the passengers were slightly happy may have been missed at that stage.
All just suggestions from my own experience.
However it’s not always that clear cut.
The passengers can just come across in good spirit initially.
Check-in agents are trained to warn passengers who turn up at check-in under slight influence of alcohol that they could be denied travel if they do not stop.
For the majority of the population this does work and a note can be entered into the system to say they were warned.
The passengers may have become worse after boarding the aircraft. I have seen passenger’s act sensible until they are passed the gate staff, because they know they are at risk of being offloaded.
The other more unfortunate reason could be the shear time factor. Unfortunately driving force in most turn-arounds. The fact the passengers were slightly happy may have been missed at that stage.
All just suggestions from my own experience.
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my money is on an inexperienced skipper, an easily excitable cabin crew and an over reaction. The demographic of the crewing profile at that end of the market would suggest that such combinations are likely.
Are you saying that aircrew that work for a regional airline are any less able to make these judgements compared to crew from larger airlines?
I would argue that we are more experienced in dealing with these types of passengers as our low fares tend to attract them! It's all very well speculating on the competence of those involved but I seriously doubt any Captain would take the decision (and the potential flak) to offload such a sizeable group if there wasn't reasonable cause.
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I can't believe I'm reading this!
Dicks...what was your seat number - I can only assume from your comments that you were on the a/c.
As for angels at check in/ boarding then devils when boarded........ you ever seen these lads go for the 'duty free slurp' of the vodka etc.. usually neat.
I have also seen groups of lads change dramatically when coming into contact with Cabin Crew - testosterone charge!
I'm sure the boss called it as he saw it and since we were not there we should respect his judgement.
edited for lousy grammar.
Dicks...what was your seat number - I can only assume from your comments that you were on the a/c.
As for angels at check in/ boarding then devils when boarded........ you ever seen these lads go for the 'duty free slurp' of the vodka etc.. usually neat.
I have also seen groups of lads change dramatically when coming into contact with Cabin Crew - testosterone charge!
I'm sure the boss called it as he saw it and since we were not there we should respect his judgement.
edited for lousy grammar.
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OOps i'm sorry guys i've strayed from the mantra of: commanders this and ano that, i do apologise. front seat good back seat bad, front seat good,back seat bad, front seat good back seat bad.
As for patronising comments, whilst working for our Irish friends i had an occasion to carry a bunch of rowdies. The young cabin crew got wind of their rowdiness from the agent and were all worked up , ready to refuse boarding, and geared for a fight. A few quick words with the pax, problem solved , not a murmer. No hassle. Similar issues ex gla, except senior purser of same tribal origins soon sorted them. Some times ther is more than one way to skin a cat.
Quoting the ano as a fix all after a contraversial decision is a sure indicator of a rear guard action in cases like this. Be funny to count the number of times crews quote the ano to highlight their transgressions,and not to exempt them from being liable for misjudgement when making a decision.
Its not a crime to be wrong, just a learning curve, if that is the case here. Like i said my money is on n over reaction.
WWW what I always do is where possible get on the mobile/comms involve everyone in in the loop, spread the load and the blame if it goes pear shaped. This applies to all experience levels and problems(notwithstanding emergencies). I'm not second guessing the skipper , just that from my experience i would put my money on tea and buscuits.Always best to have someone to share the busicuits with.The buck doesnt have to stop in cases like this, it can be more like pass the parcel, you just ratify the best option.Dont get shafted with the big picture fall out if the rest of the picture is lookin the other way whistling
As for patronising comments, whilst working for our Irish friends i had an occasion to carry a bunch of rowdies. The young cabin crew got wind of their rowdiness from the agent and were all worked up , ready to refuse boarding, and geared for a fight. A few quick words with the pax, problem solved , not a murmer. No hassle. Similar issues ex gla, except senior purser of same tribal origins soon sorted them. Some times ther is more than one way to skin a cat.
Quoting the ano as a fix all after a contraversial decision is a sure indicator of a rear guard action in cases like this. Be funny to count the number of times crews quote the ano to highlight their transgressions,and not to exempt them from being liable for misjudgement when making a decision.
Its not a crime to be wrong, just a learning curve, if that is the case here. Like i said my money is on n over reaction.
WWW what I always do is where possible get on the mobile/comms involve everyone in in the loop, spread the load and the blame if it goes pear shaped. This applies to all experience levels and problems(notwithstanding emergencies). I'm not second guessing the skipper , just that from my experience i would put my money on tea and buscuits.Always best to have someone to share the busicuits with.The buck doesnt have to stop in cases like this, it can be more like pass the parcel, you just ratify the best option.Dont get shafted with the big picture fall out if the rest of the picture is lookin the other way whistling
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This whole thread is a complete load of ****, I can tell you now the case is far more complicated than the newspaper reports or publicity shows. Just as it is wrong to comment on the cause of an accident before the official investigation is completed it is wrong to speculate on this. So I suggest we stop being critical of the crew and just wait for the outcome of the investigation.
A.H.
P.S. The captain is very very experienced and wouldn't of taken this decision lightly.
A.H.
P.S. The captain is very very experienced and wouldn't of taken this decision lightly.
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I find that far too many people get excited about nothing! Yes pax do go funny when they board an aircraft, they are travelling in a way that is not natural and because of that fact, its exciting. That is not the problem. Tell them to be quiet if you can't hear the radio but lets keep it in perspective.
The most excited people I see is dispatchers, cabin crew, duty managers, first officers and Captains!
As soon as there is an abnormality in the operation everyone gets excited about it. That is why old Captains generally speaking are the best in the business, they are relaxed and can deal with situations in a methodical, proffesional and reasonable way. You younger guys should try to model yourselves on them.
So many times I've had a problem and the first thing the guy in the right seat wants to do is call the company and tell the world! And only when he's done that will he even start thinking about the problem.
The best bit of advice is to sit on your hands count to ten and THINK.
Could you imagine your chief pilot off loading 30 pax! I can't. He's too good.
The most excited people I see is dispatchers, cabin crew, duty managers, first officers and Captains!
As soon as there is an abnormality in the operation everyone gets excited about it. That is why old Captains generally speaking are the best in the business, they are relaxed and can deal with situations in a methodical, proffesional and reasonable way. You younger guys should try to model yourselves on them.
So many times I've had a problem and the first thing the guy in the right seat wants to do is call the company and tell the world! And only when he's done that will he even start thinking about the problem.
The best bit of advice is to sit on your hands count to ten and THINK.
Could you imagine your chief pilot off loading 30 pax! I can't. He's too good.
I think the large number of Pax offloaded has opened this incident to speculation.
Bottom line, Skipper is responsible for the a/craft & its safety etc. He made a decision - that's what he's paid to do.
Good luck to him.
Bottom line, Skipper is responsible for the a/craft & its safety etc. He made a decision - that's what he's paid to do.
Good luck to him.
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Why should people who do not know how to behave themselves in public be allowed to travel ?? I am with the skipper on this one. Why put other passengers at risk by having a load of louts on board an aircraft?
You all go on about over reaction... I am sure if he had of let them travel and there was an in-flight diversion, I am sure you would have then critisised him for not offloading in the first place!!
Too many people are quick to judge someones decision, whatever it maybe. But there should be a ZERO tollerance for loutish behavour on board an aircraft. In fact there should be ZERO tollerance for loutish behavour in society!!!
You all go on about over reaction... I am sure if he had of let them travel and there was an in-flight diversion, I am sure you would have then critisised him for not offloading in the first place!!
Too many people are quick to judge someones decision, whatever it maybe. But there should be a ZERO tollerance for loutish behavour on board an aircraft. In fact there should be ZERO tollerance for loutish behavour in society!!!