Infants In Business Class

[willoman]

I am planning a long business class flight later this year as a celebration - possibly around the world. I wish to ensure that the onboard comfort is good, food is reasonable and ( most important ) that I will NOT be surrounded by screaming kids. Does anyone out there know of airlines that deny business seats to small children.

[christep]

None that I know of, but I am sure there would be a market for this... at the very least, on routes which are flown multiple times per day then it should be possible to designate some of the flights as "min age 12" or something.

I must admit I was mightily pissed off recently to be in First on a BA from LHR to EWR where there was a baby screaming for at least 30% of the flight. After a while I went and sat in business, which really isn't what I was paying for. The crew were most apologetic and trying hard to help the mother shut the thing up (harder than the mother was trying, frankly). They also gave me the rest of a very nice bottle of wine which I had had one glass from for me to have the rest with my dinner, but there isn't a lot more they can do.

[Nick Riviera]

Hey, babies cry. It's what they do. They are not trying to purposefully upset you, it is the only way they can communicate. And if their parents pay the appropriate fare then they have as much right as you to be in first class. So be nice to them, they will be looking after you when you are old and dribbling.

[WHBM]

Interestingly when F pax have been disrupted by rock singers and their entourages having an impromptu party in the cabin, there are accounts of the airline giving the other F pax a free F ticket in compensation. So there is plenty of precedent for regarding the premium cabin as somewhere where you pay for a refined environment.

[speedbird_heavy]

Just remember. You had children once. I'm planning on using business class to New York for a few days. Guess what Im taking my 18month old and I hope Im on the same flight as you.

[Boss Raptor]

Similar subject on Jet Blast recently echoing that point of view - selective flights without young children/babies...and I upset up all the parents by indicating my view (as did others) that very young (crying/noisy) children/babies should not be in business class (preferably not on certain flights as a whole)) and that in fact they were 'antisocial' to those who choose not to have kids...the emotioned knee jerk response from the mummies and daddies precluded any sensible/reasoned discussion to those points...

[under_exposed]

I also see the advantage in excluding the young. Air travel should be restricted to over 18’s. Also, with the exception of me, they should be under 30, female and single. The problem appears to be that airlines operate to provide services to people who are prepared to pay for them rather that to serve my specific requirements, anybody would think it was public transport.

[Crepello]

Why do folk travel biz/First? Let's be honest, it's not for the catering and it's not just about the space. They pay the extra so they can work better or sleep sounder.

I wouldn't take an infant up front for fear of spoiling everyone's journey. Some folk know the risk but don't seem to give a damn. Speedbird_heavy seems to revel in it. On the other hand, loud conversations have the same effect. What to do - ban talking?

No easy answer. I'd be all for designated 'quiet zones' as some trains have but they'd be difficult to implement. Alternatively, an insulated 'noise zone' for the infants and rockstars. And to promote mutual tolerance, permit smoking in there.

For the hard of humour, I do not promote smoking in front of infants.

[Bealzebub]

We have many children, and have taken them in everything from Concorde to charter flights. No matter what class of travel they have all been taught from a very early age of the privilidge they enjoy and the behaviour that is demanded from them. I have always been proud of their behaviour on aeroplanes ( not something that is always the case in other circumstances), and that has been endorsed by some very complimentary comments from pursers and other crewmembers.

I can understand that other people do not expect to have to suffer discomfort from other peoples children and the price of premium class tickets acts as something of a natural defence in this regard. That is no guarantee of course, nor should it be assumed that unruly children are any more welcome in economy. As others have said it is public transport and you have to put up with the consequences of that reality from time to time.

Infants do cry, but usually for a reason. Parents do not enjoy the fact any more than other people and will nearly always seek to rectify the matter. Babies have a limited ability to communicate and nature has given them a very good method of establishing an imperitive and difficult to ignore signal. It is difficult to cry when they feeding, drinking and sleeping and they do do a lot of this.

The only way of guaranteeing who will surround you on a flight is to charter a private jet.

[speedbird_heavy]

Why should you dictate who sits in what class of cabin??? If I'm willing to pay the same amount of money, then I have every right to take my son with me. I had no problem on the BA002. Infact passengers on this flight were happy about it and showed affection for my son. You might travel J or F class every other day and take it for granted. People like myself save hard to experience how the other half live and Im not going to let someone in a suit tell me what I can and cant do.

EDITED TO REMOVE OFFENSIVE PROSEPPRuNe Radar

[WHBM]

people do not expect to have to suffer discomfort from other peoples children and the price of premium class tickets acts as something of a natural defence in this regard

My only bad experience of this, which I have described before, was a "Third World" Ambassador's wife and their two children (not babies) in C class on EI Dublin - London, who treated the front cabin as a personal playpen, ran around screaming, overturned other pax's drinks, scolded the FAs who tried to control things, stole items from the cart, and generally were the Flight from Hell. Skipper should have put the seat belt sign on, but as they ignored it when it was put on for the London approach, would have made no difference.

Good to see our foreign aid to that poverty-stricken country being used in this way on these tickets.

[GlueBall]

Too many parents don't know how to control their kids.

Pax who travel with infants and small children should be seated in the last row of the rear (Economy Class) cabin on all flights at all airlines; it should become a World standard as a courtesy to the obvious majority of adult passengers.

[BEagle]

Children should be seen, not heard.

Simple, really. But too many 'new age' doting parents seem to have forgotten this simple concept. Neither do they seem to understand that the apple of their eyes is not necessarily that of other peoples'....

[Animalclub]

I'm one of those s that insist on enjoying my flights when I pay the retail fare... and I keep children away from me any way that I can.

I even complain when Y passengers come through to J class to use the toilets!!

[speedbird_heavy]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but a debate involves views from different points of view does it not. You have aired yours and I mine. You dont like my view and I dont like yours.

Untill someone can tell me what gives them the right to dictate whe sits where then I will stand by my comments.

The only way of guaranteeing who will surround you on a flight is to charter a private jet.

As you lot are mega rich and can afford to fly busuness class every time I suggest you try what has been quoted above. That way I can enjoy a flight with out you lot thinking you own the aircraft.

[Octopussy2]

As this thread becomes increasingly polarised (pax who can't bear the possibility of the proximity of children vs parents who can't bear to concede that the presence of children may sometimes be irritating), it strikes me that what we're missing is a bit of tolerance.

Has modern life become so stressful that, unless we can control our environment exactly/be surrounded by only by people who are exactly like us (fellow harrassed parents/stressed-out business travellers) - we feel deeply uncomfortable?

What about others who makes us uncomfortable or get in our way? The elderly or disabled passenger limping slowly down the aisle, while we're stuck behing them desperate for the loo/another drink? Do we segregate them as well?

I am as annoyed by the next person by the parent who lets their children run riot and make life unpleasant for those around them. But what about responsible parents, with well-behaved kids, trying desperately to shut the baby up?

How much would the atmosphere change in the cabin if, instead of being met with a scowl, harassed parent receives a sympathetic smile from stressed-out business person? And if harrassed business person receives a rueful smile and a muttered "I'm so sorry about this" in return?

It's a hackneyed fact that we were all children once, but also that we all different, with different needs. We can't/shouldn't (IMHO) isolate ourselves from the rest of the human race. How about a bit of empathy/understanding instead?

[PPRuNe Radar]

speedbird_heavy

You fail by personally attacking the posters and not solely their arguments or points of views. The latter is allowed and is called debate. The former is against the rules which you signed up to when joining PPRuNe. Hence your turn of phrase has been removed from your post.

Any more of that type of posting and I'll see that you are offloaded.

All other replies relating to your attack (i.e. those taking your bait and biting) have also been removed as they are not relevant to the issue being discussed.

[BEagle]

Perhaps a general statement from an airline indicating that passengers travelling in Business Class expect sufficient standard of comfort and quiet within which to work or to rest might suffice? Particularly with an addendum noting that parents flying with their children are asked to ensure that the behaviour of their children is commensurate with the spirit of this expectation?

It's not the teething small squealer which is the biggest pain (try a miniature Drambuie- oops, I never said that!), it's uncontrolled little beggars making a nuisance of themselves whilst their parents do nothing to stop them who are the biggest irritant!

[speedbird_heavy]

PPRuNe Radar

All other replies relating to your attack (i.e. those taking your bait and biting) have also been removed as they are not relevant to the issue being discussed.

I dont believe that I should be singled out here. I will however put my hand up and admit I was out of order. Question is, well anyone else?


Ok back to the"debate":

Can one of you "business men" give me a valid reason why I should not be allowed to travel with my son in any class on any aircraft with any airline if I am paying the same price for a ticket as you.

[BEagle]

Provided you ensure that his behaviour is such that it won't cause unreasonble disturbance to other passengers, go right ahead.

If you can't manage to ensure that, please use another form of transport.

And that applies whether you're flying first class or on the cheapest low-cost carrier......