Bangs & Jolts
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Bangs & Jolts
BA 315 on Thursday last (6NOV) experienced a solid bang and slew to the right at FL240 on leveling off on its way from CDG to LHR. Deathly hush, no comments from the crew ... would you prefer the Apple Tart and tea or something else ... then continued.
Felt as though a caterers truck had tried to kiss the tail ... but on reflection, fairly unlikely at FL240.
Couldn't get a view of the aircraft at all when disembarking at LHR - and nobody was saying anything
Anybody got any ideas or even better facts ??? E-Mail me if you prefer not to have the dirty laundry in public - but it was a very strange sound and skid for an A-319....
Cheers
Felt as though a caterers truck had tried to kiss the tail ... but on reflection, fairly unlikely at FL240.
Couldn't get a view of the aircraft at all when disembarking at LHR - and nobody was saying anything
Anybody got any ideas or even better facts ??? E-Mail me if you prefer not to have the dirty laundry in public - but it was a very strange sound and skid for an A-319....
Cheers
Typical aircraft reaction to an engine surge, although unlikely on an A319 without other indications in the cockpit of something wrong.
Not a big deal and no doubt the bird is flying today.
Not a big deal and no doubt the bird is flying today.
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Gofer...
If the aircraft flew through another aircraft's wake, it will make a jolt enough to startle the Flt Crew, let alone the PAX! I make a point of making a PA is this happens, but maybe not all do...
It is also possible, in negotiating their dinner / the Telegraph crossword / laughing at the latest Mgmt edict, someone's foot slipped off a foot rest onto a rudder pedal. I'd still have made a PA - and blamed the above turbulence!
To be honest, if the Cabin Crew continued without batting an eyelid, I wouldn't worry...
NoD
(BA A319 Capt)
If the aircraft flew through another aircraft's wake, it will make a jolt enough to startle the Flt Crew, let alone the PAX! I make a point of making a PA is this happens, but maybe not all do...
It is also possible, in negotiating their dinner / the Telegraph crossword / laughing at the latest Mgmt edict, someone's foot slipped off a foot rest onto a rudder pedal. I'd still have made a PA - and blamed the above turbulence!
To be honest, if the Cabin Crew continued without batting an eyelid, I wouldn't worry...
NoD
(BA A319 Capt)
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Certain companies Fleet Captains are in the habit of treating such 'reports' from SLF as if they were the learned observations of aviation experts.
This credulous behaviour then manifests itself in ridiculous phone calls to your home on your day off asking to 'please explain that bump that happened three months ago on flight xyz'.
Perhaps these gullible Fleet Captains should realise that these 'reports' are to be treated with the contempt they deserve and not bother their crews with such nonsense.
The only answer to such enquiries is...I don't remember...the aircraft was not bent or broken...perhaps some turbulence...what would you like me to say?
Oh yes I forgot to tell you about that middair collision I had?
On every flight there are white-knuckle flyers, and to them every bump, jolt, fart or vibration the aircraft makes is a sure indication it is/was about to crash and burn.
Ignore the troublesome MF'ers for crissake, or invent a standard letter to humour them. Use your imagination, but don't waste our goddamn time.
This credulous behaviour then manifests itself in ridiculous phone calls to your home on your day off asking to 'please explain that bump that happened three months ago on flight xyz'.
Perhaps these gullible Fleet Captains should realise that these 'reports' are to be treated with the contempt they deserve and not bother their crews with such nonsense.
The only answer to such enquiries is...I don't remember...the aircraft was not bent or broken...perhaps some turbulence...what would you like me to say?
Oh yes I forgot to tell you about that middair collision I had?
On every flight there are white-knuckle flyers, and to them every bump, jolt, fart or vibration the aircraft makes is a sure indication it is/was about to crash and burn.
Ignore the troublesome MF'ers for crissake, or invent a standard letter to humour them. Use your imagination, but don't waste our goddamn time.
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maxalt
...and, my feathered friend, those 'white-knuckle' 'MF'ers' are paying part of your wages. You'ld like a few of them to keep coming back occasionally, I presume. What a pity the great unwashed appear to ruin an otherwise great life.
...and, my feathered friend, those 'white-knuckle' 'MF'ers' are paying part of your wages. You'ld like a few of them to keep coming back occasionally, I presume. What a pity the great unwashed appear to ruin an otherwise great life.
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maxalt
further to Radar's comments.
I would suggest those people pay ALL your wages, and those of your colleagues, both in the air and on the ground.
A simple PA would help reduce the nervousness of those who still have a fear of flying (at least 50% of the passengers). It would also save the valuable time of both you and your Fleet Captain.
further to Radar's comments.
I would suggest those people pay ALL your wages, and those of your colleagues, both in the air and on the ground.
A simple PA would help reduce the nervousness of those who still have a fear of flying (at least 50% of the passengers). It would also save the valuable time of both you and your Fleet Captain.
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I would suggest those people pay ALL your wages
Bums on seats...thats all they are...as Mike O'L would say...the rest is just bollixology.
As to the suggestion of a PA every time we hit a burble of CAT, get a ripple of wake, or move the speedbrake lever...oh yeah...I can just see that flight deck.
1010:05 "Ladies and Gentlemen, there is absolutely nothing to be alarmed at. Thank you."
1012:05 "Ladies and Gentlemen, there is absolutely nothing to be alarmed at. Thank you."
1015:05 "Ladies and Gentlemen, there is absolutely nothing to be alarmed at. Thank you."
Result....Alarm and Panic at the nutcase flying the a/c.
As common with alot of other airlines, the cabin crew have a standard turbulence PA, let them deal with the situation as they see fit. If the seat belt signs go on, then they do the PA, end of story. If you explained every bump and swerve, jolt and bang (most of which are ignored by pilots) you'd be on the PA every five minutes.
Generally, when we are trundling over the far east, nearly every flight has some pretty fair turbulence, especially with the CBs down that way, it's seat belts on, hold on tight, concentrate, reconfigure if necessary and order more coffee. I understand and am sympathetic to nervous pax, but I'm not going to be on the PA every five minutes interupting the films.
Back to question involved, sounded like you may have passed through someones wake turbulence, it does happen but there is nothing to be concerned about, you missed him didn't you?
Generally, when we are trundling over the far east, nearly every flight has some pretty fair turbulence, especially with the CBs down that way, it's seat belts on, hold on tight, concentrate, reconfigure if necessary and order more coffee. I understand and am sympathetic to nervous pax, but I'm not going to be on the PA every five minutes interupting the films.
Back to question involved, sounded like you may have passed through someones wake turbulence, it does happen but there is nothing to be concerned about, you missed him didn't you?
Gofer doesn't sound like a white-knuckle passenger, just someone interested enough to ask a question.
The question seems to have been partially answered but would a sudden slew due to wake turbulence provoke something sounding like a "solid bang" on a 319?
I'm just thinking of the fairly horrendous sounds generated by an airframe in heavy turbulence, many of which could be described as solid bangs. Since they're continuous one associates them directly with the turbulence but a single "whack" in an otherwise smooth flight might, in isolation, seem more ominous.
The question seems to have been partially answered but would a sudden slew due to wake turbulence provoke something sounding like a "solid bang" on a 319?
I'm just thinking of the fairly horrendous sounds generated by an airframe in heavy turbulence, many of which could be described as solid bangs. Since they're continuous one associates them directly with the turbulence but a single "whack" in an otherwise smooth flight might, in isolation, seem more ominous.
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Maxalt
I was trained NOT to answer back, but in your case I'll make an exception and rise to the bait. Remember you have achieved what you wanted, to drive a good fare paying PAX from your airline - as I'm elephantine in remembring things that got my goat. 
1) My company has regularly spent at least US$ 50K on tickets for my transportation for the last 10 year, and many of those dollars went to RTW's and complex nested D class fares so as to get the most bang for our buck.
2) Since keeping score from 1. Jan.94 I'm @ over 700 flights, and an annual in air time between 200 and 1000 hours (av. leg time this year on 68 legs so far is 4h 28m). I have been flying regularly for over 50 years, am around my 7th or 8th of 9 lives flying, did PPL training, and my Godfather, Uncle & Son-in-Law were/are all commercial pilots, my father was an aeronautical engineer. To crown it all my daughter is a Senior Purser and been for over 10 years.
3) I know what bad weather looks & feels like and have seen ashen faced cabin crew before - but usually they will talk when spoken to calmly and analytically. I have been flying A-319's, as SFL, since 1997.
4) Most of the CRM focused Flight crew (CRM in the commercial sense of Customer Relationship Management - not yours) do oftern make an announcement when something unexpected happens, even if it is bad news. This is however much more common now than 20 years ago.
Pure tangent that I can't resist. A recent case I had was a very out of breath Capt. who had just run to the back of the aircraft and back - who apologised for the alarm and the fact that a PAX had insisted on testing the smoke detector in the rear toilet - he managed to make light of it while still informing of the penalties and that the PAX would be handed over to the police on landing - He was.
NoD Thankyou for a plausable suggestion - was it your flight ?? - Anyway I'll write it off to that for now.
Slingsby Agree entirely when it is standard turbulance, a one time sideways jolt that skids the whole aircraft enough to require visible course correction, I think not.
Broadreach Those kind words most appreciated - Each aircraft has its own collection of funny squeeks and thuds, and serious turbulance can get some fabulous grindings and groans that the Aircraft was certainly built to withstand - its just the bang from the blue that reminds you that flying isn't totally foolproof or absolutely 2 million % safe yet, and that you might just be mortal, after all.
Radar & Pub User You are so right - we do pay all the airline staff wages - and I don't begrudge most of the staff their portion, but if there were any tips going around mine would go to the unsung hero's in the hangars that fix them and check them at the most stupid hours, so that the crew and the SLF can fly safely.
As far as I'm concerned - subject closed, unless somebody has a better idea than Nigel's - mail me if you prefer discretion guaranteed - I'm not reporting anything to management - they usually are most of the problem, unfortunately.
1) My company has regularly spent at least US$ 50K on tickets for my transportation for the last 10 year, and many of those dollars went to RTW's and complex nested D class fares so as to get the most bang for our buck.
2) Since keeping score from 1. Jan.94 I'm @ over 700 flights, and an annual in air time between 200 and 1000 hours (av. leg time this year on 68 legs so far is 4h 28m). I have been flying regularly for over 50 years, am around my 7th or 8th of 9 lives flying, did PPL training, and my Godfather, Uncle & Son-in-Law were/are all commercial pilots, my father was an aeronautical engineer. To crown it all my daughter is a Senior Purser and been for over 10 years.
3) I know what bad weather looks & feels like and have seen ashen faced cabin crew before - but usually they will talk when spoken to calmly and analytically. I have been flying A-319's, as SFL, since 1997.
4) Most of the CRM focused Flight crew (CRM in the commercial sense of Customer Relationship Management - not yours) do oftern make an announcement when something unexpected happens, even if it is bad news. This is however much more common now than 20 years ago.
Pure tangent that I can't resist. A recent case I had was a very out of breath Capt. who had just run to the back of the aircraft and back - who apologised for the alarm and the fact that a PAX had insisted on testing the smoke detector in the rear toilet - he managed to make light of it while still informing of the penalties and that the PAX would be handed over to the police on landing - He was.
NoD Thankyou for a plausable suggestion - was it your flight ?? - Anyway I'll write it off to that for now.
Slingsby Agree entirely when it is standard turbulance, a one time sideways jolt that skids the whole aircraft enough to require visible course correction, I think not.
Broadreach Those kind words most appreciated - Each aircraft has its own collection of funny squeeks and thuds, and serious turbulance can get some fabulous grindings and groans that the Aircraft was certainly built to withstand - its just the bang from the blue that reminds you that flying isn't totally foolproof or absolutely 2 million % safe yet, and that you might just be mortal, after all.
Radar & Pub User You are so right - we do pay all the airline staff wages - and I don't begrudge most of the staff their portion, but if there were any tips going around mine would go to the unsung hero's in the hangars that fix them and check them at the most stupid hours, so that the crew and the SLF can fly safely.
As far as I'm concerned - subject closed, unless somebody has a better idea than Nigel's - mail me if you prefer discretion guaranteed - I'm not reporting anything to management - they usually are most of the problem, unfortunately.
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gofer ..... I thought your post a perfectly reasonable question and expected you to only get perfectly reasonable replies ...... but of course we don't live in a perfect world !!!!
as an aside, in all my years of flying around this world of ours I've experienced two flights I would rather forget ...... on one occasion the Skipper announced during a NYK/LHR flight that there was nothing he could do but that the Aircraft was completely capable of handling the very rough time we were experiencing and that we just had to ride it out ........ on another occasion after a dramatic approach/landing into LHR we were advised by the Skipper that if it was any consolation to us, it was the worst landing he had ever experienced also !!!!
these words of wisdom from the flight deck certainly went down well with me ....
cheers ..... hobie
as an aside, in all my years of flying around this world of ours I've experienced two flights I would rather forget ...... on one occasion the Skipper announced during a NYK/LHR flight that there was nothing he could do but that the Aircraft was completely capable of handling the very rough time we were experiencing and that we just had to ride it out ........ on another occasion after a dramatic approach/landing into LHR we were advised by the Skipper that if it was any consolation to us, it was the worst landing he had ever experienced also !!!!
these words of wisdom from the flight deck certainly went down well with me ....
cheers ..... hobie
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Gofer,
Seem to remember experiencing a similar situation to yours on the way back from Greece this year - Loud bang, slew, silent passengers. Captain came over the tannoy and said it was wake turbulance. Kinda felt like we had run something over!
Seem to remember experiencing a similar situation to yours on the way back from Greece this year - Loud bang, slew, silent passengers. Captain came over the tannoy and said it was wake turbulance. Kinda felt like we had run something over!
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I hit the wake of a preceding 320 about a week ago on the way to somewhere in Europe, (they all blend into one) ..... was just one very quick, but fairly large bump.... got on the PA, told the pax exactly what it was, exactly how far ahead the aircraft was, and that it was the aerial equivalent of running over one of those infernal speed-bumps so beloved of UK county-councils at 30 miles an hour.
Everyone happy. Passengers are adults, they are in an environment they do not understand, one in which they would LIKE to have control, but don't. Treat them like adults, give them the facts, and they are happy... and that applies to ALL aspect of flight, delays, tech. problems whatever. Honesty really is the best policy.
Everyone happy. Passengers are adults, they are in an environment they do not understand, one in which they would LIKE to have control, but don't. Treat them like adults, give them the facts, and they are happy... and that applies to ALL aspect of flight, delays, tech. problems whatever. Honesty really is the best policy.
Hobie - "on another occasion after a dramatic approach/landing into LHR we were advised by the Skipper that if it was any consolation to us, it was the worst landing he had ever experienced also !!!!"
This will sound like a nothing to you guys but I'd like tell you about one of my experiences as - from a passengers point of view - I guess it's relevant to this thread. I was on a flight (BA 744) JFK/PHL (Can't remember) to LHR around this time last year, as we crossed the Irish Sea and started descent PA along the lines of ETA and "we're expecting a bumpy ride into LHR", what actually transpired scared me and from the look on they're faces - the cabin crew too (I've taken enough flights to know).
In summary we had what I thought was severe turbulence all the way down or at least it seemed like it, huge bumps, shaking cabin, flaps going down and up! engines screaming, passengers screaming (I could deal with everything else it was the passengers screaming that really made me twitchy) this all continued all the way into LHR - the last 60 seconds of the flight were particularly disconcerting as we were getting thrown up and down at a v.low altitude, we landed well off center and as the wheels touched I had a clear view down (our) runway from my window over the wing! Rapid correction and what seemed like particularly heavy braking & RT followed by this announcement...."ladies and gentleman etc etc thank you for flying BA, I'd like to apologise for our lack of finesse during the approach and landing, I'm sure you will all appreciate that our number one priority is to get the aircraft and passengers on the ground safely and in one piece, if it's any consolation we are as relieved to be on the ground as you are! Once again thanks for flying BA, safe onward journey etc etc”
I’ve had plenty of comfortable flights and a few uncomfortable flights but as far as I'm concerned - and this one was no exception - they were all 'good' flights with incredibly professional crews. I like to be kept informed by the guys up front and a bit of advance warning is always welcome if things are going to be rough, even a short 'sorry about that but alls well and nothing to be worried about' after the event, but unless this particular captain has an incredibly dry sense of humour, I'm not sure I want to know how relieved he was to still be alive afterwards! Anyway, whatever the conditions - serious respect to all the guys sit up front and deal with whatever comes their way.
This will sound like a nothing to you guys but I'd like tell you about one of my experiences as - from a passengers point of view - I guess it's relevant to this thread. I was on a flight (BA 744) JFK/PHL (Can't remember) to LHR around this time last year, as we crossed the Irish Sea and started descent PA along the lines of ETA and "we're expecting a bumpy ride into LHR", what actually transpired scared me and from the look on they're faces - the cabin crew too (I've taken enough flights to know).
In summary we had what I thought was severe turbulence all the way down or at least it seemed like it, huge bumps, shaking cabin, flaps going down and up! engines screaming, passengers screaming (I could deal with everything else it was the passengers screaming that really made me twitchy) this all continued all the way into LHR - the last 60 seconds of the flight were particularly disconcerting as we were getting thrown up and down at a v.low altitude, we landed well off center and as the wheels touched I had a clear view down (our) runway from my window over the wing! Rapid correction and what seemed like particularly heavy braking & RT followed by this announcement...."ladies and gentleman etc etc thank you for flying BA, I'd like to apologise for our lack of finesse during the approach and landing, I'm sure you will all appreciate that our number one priority is to get the aircraft and passengers on the ground safely and in one piece, if it's any consolation we are as relieved to be on the ground as you are! Once again thanks for flying BA, safe onward journey etc etc”
I’ve had plenty of comfortable flights and a few uncomfortable flights but as far as I'm concerned - and this one was no exception - they were all 'good' flights with incredibly professional crews. I like to be kept informed by the guys up front and a bit of advance warning is always welcome if things are going to be rough, even a short 'sorry about that but alls well and nothing to be worried about' after the event, but unless this particular captain has an incredibly dry sense of humour, I'm not sure I want to know how relieved he was to still be alive afterwards! Anyway, whatever the conditions - serious respect to all the guys sit up front and deal with whatever comes their way.
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Would just like to encourage all you CPL's that a little PA goes a long way.
I was in the back of a B737 on a perfect flying night over Europe recently at FL35ish, when we had a bit of a bang. I'm only a PPL, and it felt like wake turbulance... but then there followed quite a bit of auto (presume) throttle activity which gotme wondering. Thanks to the captain for a prompt announcement.
The other thing that gets us PAX sometimes is an abrupt altitude capture, esp when it's on a SID - it makes your stomach go if you're not expecting it, and then the engines run back aswell!
Keep up the good work!
I was in the back of a B737 on a perfect flying night over Europe recently at FL35ish, when we had a bit of a bang. I'm only a PPL, and it felt like wake turbulance... but then there followed quite a bit of auto (presume) throttle activity which gotme wondering. Thanks to the captain for a prompt announcement.
The other thing that gets us PAX sometimes is an abrupt altitude capture, esp when it's on a SID - it makes your stomach go if you're not expecting it, and then the engines run back aswell!
Keep up the good work!
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Sometimes it doesnt need a member of the crew to calm nervous passengers down. On the approach to LHR a few years ago, I was a passenger when the aircraft took a lightning strike, Loud Bang!!, the five year old kid sitting with his parents in the seat in front leaps to his feet and in a loud voice says "What the f**k was that!!!. Cabin dissolves in to laughter. Exit mortified parents.
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maxalt
you are a complete and utter baffoon..!!!!! You are exactly the
self inflated and opinionated pratt that gives all us professional pilots bad names. Not only is an airline pilot supposed to be able to drive an aircraft...he has a duty of care to his customers...and if
he values the industry he is in and the company he works for he
would not feel inclined to ridicule customers when they feel the need to ask perfectly reasonable questions. These customers may not be blessed with the same knowledge that you have about this flying stuff.... but how many times have you quizzed the doctor or dentist during your visits?? I bet they don't tell you to take a hike !!
I bet your colleagues love a day out with you...AAAAAAAAAARGGG.
u is a dipstick
you are a complete and utter baffoon..!!!!! You are exactly the
self inflated and opinionated pratt that gives all us professional pilots bad names. Not only is an airline pilot supposed to be able to drive an aircraft...he has a duty of care to his customers...and if
he values the industry he is in and the company he works for he
would not feel inclined to ridicule customers when they feel the need to ask perfectly reasonable questions. These customers may not be blessed with the same knowledge that you have about this flying stuff.... but how many times have you quizzed the doctor or dentist during your visits?? I bet they don't tell you to take a hike !!
I bet your colleagues love a day out with you...AAAAAAAAAARGGG.
u is a dipstick