Times: BA staff shortages shut first-class cabins
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Times: BA staff shortages shut first-class cabins
BA seeks staff as shortages shut first-class cabins
According to The Times:
"British Airways is recruiting 300 cabin crew because staff shortages are forcing the airline to close its first-class service on some flights."
Seems odd to me (an outsider) - surely there is more profit to BA from 5 1st-class pax than 100 in economy? However:
"A union agreement means first class must be staffed by at least three crew whatever the number of passengers."
According to The Times:
"British Airways is recruiting 300 cabin crew because staff shortages are forcing the airline to close its first-class service on some flights."
Seems odd to me (an outsider) - surely there is more profit to BA from 5 1st-class pax than 100 in economy? However:
"A union agreement means first class must be staffed by at least three crew whatever the number of passengers."
Seems quite surprising to me also, but then you really can't trust the press can we.
In spite of the least number of passengers being unhappy, the rolling impact is sure to spread rapidly throughout the busness community and drive the money customers to seek more reliable upgraded service elsewhere.
I suspect that the impacted business passengers were likely upgrades from low priced tickets. I also suspect that the bumped first classies were suitably compensated with multiple future upgrades.
I doubt that BA is going to counter the bad press by stating what accomodations were made to the downgraded passengers, feeling that this is typically done on a case by case basis.
My gut feeling as a frequent front end passenger is that the ultimate accomodation in the future far outweighs the inconvenience of being downgraded once.
In spite of the least number of passengers being unhappy, the rolling impact is sure to spread rapidly throughout the busness community and drive the money customers to seek more reliable upgraded service elsewhere.
I suspect that the impacted business passengers were likely upgrades from low priced tickets. I also suspect that the bumped first classies were suitably compensated with multiple future upgrades.
I doubt that BA is going to counter the bad press by stating what accomodations were made to the downgraded passengers, feeling that this is typically done on a case by case basis.
My gut feeling as a frequent front end passenger is that the ultimate accomodation in the future far outweighs the inconvenience of being downgraded once.
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Greater London
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
emmmmmmmmmmmm
Wonder if this has anything to do with the very large number of cabin crew who voluntarily went part-time, when BA asked, about 3 to 4 years ago?
They do alot less hours for relatively alot more money than you'd think and they are under no obligation to go fulltime again...
Short-term gain = long-term cockup?
They do alot less hours for relatively alot more money than you'd think and they are under no obligation to go fulltime again...
Short-term gain = long-term cockup?
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Silly Cone Valley
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The problem is the Company’s continuing inability to sensibly resource the operation with enough contingency to cope with any disruption. In this particular case with the Cabin Crew, as part of the latest round of firefighting, it was announced by Commercial that 4 longhaul and 4 shorthaul services would be axed. Customer Service and Operations responded by using the Business Response Scheme to send people away on unpaid leave and voluntary severance.
Commercial then realised that the market wasn’t as bad as they thought and decided not to cancel those services, leaving the CS & O short of crew. Their response was to implement the Attendance Monitoring Programme to prevent people going sick, taking leave, seeing their families or having a work life balance.
If this is beginning to confuse you with faceless bureaucracy and incompetence you’re in good company. You’d be amongst a growing multitude within this Company who are frustrated, in despair, and who see this once great airline slipping from our grasp. The problems are manyfold, and are deeply engrained into the corporate culture of this civil-service-esque leviathan.
The solutions include:
A revolution in Customer Service and Operations, including the departure of its Director. Throughout his tenure, we have witnessed a continuous failure to effectively manage operations at our main base, despite numerous maladroit reorganisations and short term measures. This must address the TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE management of Terminal 4, the wholesale attack on the standards of customer service delivery and onboard product. We can no longer subject our premium customers to the 40 minute post arrival delay for stands, and the 40 minute waits for baggage. As for the in-flight catering, we should remember that you can only take so much cheese off a pizza, before it‘s no longer a pizza. We must remember that customers will not pay for a product that promises much, but delivers little.
The operations culture which is completely unsuited to today’s fast changing aviation environment. The situation at T4 is largely because the stand plan was prepared yesterday and they won’t make adjustments for today’s reality. It’s like the Soviet Union and the Five Year Plans, and no more successful. You have to play the game on the day, watching the ball, and playing the right strokes.
The beancounters must realise that contingency is not waste. We cannot have an operation that will fall apart the moment one batsman is out. (To continue the metaphor). It’s not a shortage of employees in BA, by Golly it’s not, but we have critical shortages in key areas of front line staff. It’s the same age old problem that we have consistently failed to address.
For our long suffering customers, I can only apologise unreservedly for our current performance. Please understand that we the staff are doing everything that we can to bring about change within this airline. Some of those measures may seem suicidal to you, but it has forced senior management to face up to uncomfortable realities in some key areas. You have to understand the numbskulls that we have to work with, they will not listen to reason, and they are certainly not interested in hearing anything ‘off-message’. Like a poorly housetrained dog, their noses have to be rubbed in it before they learn.
I’ll take on the opposition anyday. It’s my management I can’t beat!
Commercial then realised that the market wasn’t as bad as they thought and decided not to cancel those services, leaving the CS & O short of crew. Their response was to implement the Attendance Monitoring Programme to prevent people going sick, taking leave, seeing their families or having a work life balance.
If this is beginning to confuse you with faceless bureaucracy and incompetence you’re in good company. You’d be amongst a growing multitude within this Company who are frustrated, in despair, and who see this once great airline slipping from our grasp. The problems are manyfold, and are deeply engrained into the corporate culture of this civil-service-esque leviathan.
The solutions include:
A revolution in Customer Service and Operations, including the departure of its Director. Throughout his tenure, we have witnessed a continuous failure to effectively manage operations at our main base, despite numerous maladroit reorganisations and short term measures. This must address the TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE management of Terminal 4, the wholesale attack on the standards of customer service delivery and onboard product. We can no longer subject our premium customers to the 40 minute post arrival delay for stands, and the 40 minute waits for baggage. As for the in-flight catering, we should remember that you can only take so much cheese off a pizza, before it‘s no longer a pizza. We must remember that customers will not pay for a product that promises much, but delivers little.
The operations culture which is completely unsuited to today’s fast changing aviation environment. The situation at T4 is largely because the stand plan was prepared yesterday and they won’t make adjustments for today’s reality. It’s like the Soviet Union and the Five Year Plans, and no more successful. You have to play the game on the day, watching the ball, and playing the right strokes.
The beancounters must realise that contingency is not waste. We cannot have an operation that will fall apart the moment one batsman is out. (To continue the metaphor). It’s not a shortage of employees in BA, by Golly it’s not, but we have critical shortages in key areas of front line staff. It’s the same age old problem that we have consistently failed to address.
For our long suffering customers, I can only apologise unreservedly for our current performance. Please understand that we the staff are doing everything that we can to bring about change within this airline. Some of those measures may seem suicidal to you, but it has forced senior management to face up to uncomfortable realities in some key areas. You have to understand the numbskulls that we have to work with, they will not listen to reason, and they are certainly not interested in hearing anything ‘off-message’. Like a poorly housetrained dog, their noses have to be rubbed in it before they learn.
I’ll take on the opposition anyday. It’s my management I can’t beat!
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: no idea
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Roobarb,
A very well written post IMHO - and clearly from the heart. Sad to see the way BA appears to be going.
There are some extremely talented and experienced people within BA who, I'm sure, given the opportunity (and that is key..) would be able to effect some serious change and turn things around - albeit slowly.
One can't help but feel that time is running out though and many of these people are either leaving or have already left. One should be mindful that, until relatively recently, people simply didn't leave BA... well, not often anyway.
Finally, and I may well be wrong on this so please don't immediately flame me, is there any truth in the rumour that the only staff group who cannot be called back from unpaid leave at the immediate behest of the company are cabin crew?
CG
A very well written post IMHO - and clearly from the heart. Sad to see the way BA appears to be going.
There are some extremely talented and experienced people within BA who, I'm sure, given the opportunity (and that is key..) would be able to effect some serious change and turn things around - albeit slowly.
One can't help but feel that time is running out though and many of these people are either leaving or have already left. One should be mindful that, until relatively recently, people simply didn't leave BA... well, not often anyway.
Finally, and I may well be wrong on this so please don't immediately flame me, is there any truth in the rumour that the only staff group who cannot be called back from unpaid leave at the immediate behest of the company are cabin crew?
CG
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London, England
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Roobarb - excellent post.
CG - My understanding of the situation is that many of the CC have realised that life does exist outside of BA and have decided not to come back from unpaid leave. There are also quite a few who have not been responding to BA's attempts to get in touch with them!
Getting the job done these days is an up-hill battle. Poor morale has resulted in some employee groups unofficially working to rule - especially the cabin crew. However, I wonder how many staff at Waterworld went without summer leave? Also, there are 300+ cabin crew who will be losing their jobs (not redeployed as the government intended) due to failing the criminal record check.
I believe that it has been the threat of legal action, by cabin crew who have been refused leave, that has resulted in the search for new recruits. Apparently, the number of cc on unpaid leave has reduced the number of leave days available for those who are still working. Recently, one CSD told me how he was owed 42 days of leave yet the company wouldn't let him take any unless it was unpaid.
Edited to add: The sooner MS is forced to fall on his sword the better.
CG - My understanding of the situation is that many of the CC have realised that life does exist outside of BA and have decided not to come back from unpaid leave. There are also quite a few who have not been responding to BA's attempts to get in touch with them!
Getting the job done these days is an up-hill battle. Poor morale has resulted in some employee groups unofficially working to rule - especially the cabin crew. However, I wonder how many staff at Waterworld went without summer leave? Also, there are 300+ cabin crew who will be losing their jobs (not redeployed as the government intended) due to failing the criminal record check.
I believe that it has been the threat of legal action, by cabin crew who have been refused leave, that has resulted in the search for new recruits. Apparently, the number of cc on unpaid leave has reduced the number of leave days available for those who are still working. Recently, one CSD told me how he was owed 42 days of leave yet the company wouldn't let him take any unless it was unpaid.
Edited to add: The sooner MS is forced to fall on his sword the better.
Last edited by Hot Wings; 24th Sep 2003 at 17:22.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why is MS still there? How surprising when you deny CC their contractual right to take leave sickness levels go up. If the FC had been told that there was no leave over this Summer and Winter there would have been uproar.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: on the edge
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cabin Crew sickness is running around 2% over 'budget'. Many Crew are resigning each week and 'ignoring' calls for them to return from unpaid leave.
If this is how Crew are feeling, then imagine what it's like lower down the food chain in the eye's of BA Mgmt!
First Class cabins have been closed on many services now since early summer, social sickness - call it what you like has reached unheard of levels and has caused the chartering in of EAL 747's to op mainly to Florida. Shorthaul crew are being used to fill the Longhaul crew shortages, but lo and behold shortages are now occuring on Shorthaul with cancellations creeping into the schedules.
As Roobarb said, they are many, many staff within BA who strive to make a success of it all, but sadly people are trying to deliver an already hopelessly under resourced plan with one hand tied behind their back. It's been flagged up to those who can do something about it, but its ignored because its 'not the right message' and it's 'too difficult to tackle sensitive groups'.
Still, plenty of floggings are handed out to those poor souls left at the sharp end...
BA excels at de-motivating good people!
If this is how Crew are feeling, then imagine what it's like lower down the food chain in the eye's of BA Mgmt!
First Class cabins have been closed on many services now since early summer, social sickness - call it what you like has reached unheard of levels and has caused the chartering in of EAL 747's to op mainly to Florida. Shorthaul crew are being used to fill the Longhaul crew shortages, but lo and behold shortages are now occuring on Shorthaul with cancellations creeping into the schedules.
As Roobarb said, they are many, many staff within BA who strive to make a success of it all, but sadly people are trying to deliver an already hopelessly under resourced plan with one hand tied behind their back. It's been flagged up to those who can do something about it, but its ignored because its 'not the right message' and it's 'too difficult to tackle sensitive groups'.
Still, plenty of floggings are handed out to those poor souls left at the sharp end...
BA excels at de-motivating good people!
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Come on chaps, its not all that bad.
What I see here is prevalent in just about every industry, and almost every company. For sure that does not make it right, but it is encouraging to see such debate. Many BA people I speak to want the airline to be great because it is, not just because you are slightly less worse than United et al.
I have been contracted to Hewlett Packard who just lay off thousands, impose pay cuts, and if you have to fly for 24 hours, its still down the back routing thorugh 2 stops etc etc. You can't even order paper and some admin's have to go and buy their own. Meanwhile, the CEO goes and buys another couple of Gulfstreams.
Mgt in general have lost the plot, the bean counters have taken over and it will take a few years before people realise that saving a pound can cost 100.
As a passenger, all I can say is thanks for trying your best, the 40 min wait to get a stand at T4 is annoying, as is the awful food, and the delayed baggae. However, your planes are safe, and the crew work wonders. Compared to the rest, BA is still the best and lets hope mgt doesn't kill it all off with crass stupidity.
What I see here is prevalent in just about every industry, and almost every company. For sure that does not make it right, but it is encouraging to see such debate. Many BA people I speak to want the airline to be great because it is, not just because you are slightly less worse than United et al.
I have been contracted to Hewlett Packard who just lay off thousands, impose pay cuts, and if you have to fly for 24 hours, its still down the back routing thorugh 2 stops etc etc. You can't even order paper and some admin's have to go and buy their own. Meanwhile, the CEO goes and buys another couple of Gulfstreams.
Mgt in general have lost the plot, the bean counters have taken over and it will take a few years before people realise that saving a pound can cost 100.
As a passenger, all I can say is thanks for trying your best, the 40 min wait to get a stand at T4 is annoying, as is the awful food, and the delayed baggae. However, your planes are safe, and the crew work wonders. Compared to the rest, BA is still the best and lets hope mgt doesn't kill it all off with crass stupidity.
While the likes of cabin crew, baggage, bus drivers pushback crew live in the dark ages of trdeunionism,then nothing will change and ba will continue its inexorable descent into the abyss.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Failing Criminal Record Check...?
Hotwings -- Did you really mean that 300 cabin crew already working were let go because they eventually were found to have criminal records they hadn't disclosed (which I assume would have prevented their acceptance to begin with)?
Do you think people with undisclosed criminal records should be crew?
Do you think people with undisclosed criminal records should be crew?
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmm, suspect what BA needs is a "Frank Lorenzo" type to come in and clean house of all the (especially) deadwood management...and the few (many I suspect) CC and flight deck crew (only a few) who really don't care any more.
Only way to survive...and time is running out, rapidly.
Think about it...a once well run carrier, now heading straight for the rocks.
Some of the best folks left long ago...pity.
Only way to survive...and time is running out, rapidly.
Think about it...a once well run carrier, now heading straight for the rocks.
Some of the best folks left long ago...pity.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hmmm, suspect what BA needs is a "Frank Lorenzo" type to come in and clean house of all the (especially) deadwood management...and the few (many I suspect) CC and flight deck crew (only a few) who really don't care any more.
The actuality shows this to be generally a flawed and foolish view, with the Jack Welch's of this world being the exception - and he took nearly 20 years to take GE through the change journey.
There are no 'quick fixes' for BA, despite what some dinosaurs may think.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Roobarb - excellent post, a true version of current events at BA, and lets only hope the current recruitment helps out.
Alot of people have left BA this summer, the kind of people who are the best, and you thought would never leave, sadly though they have had enough,and have gone agains't their will, in most cases.
Darkstar, good post too.
Norodnik, you maybe a little naive in thinking its not that bad at BA, if you were there you may think very differently.
Of course many companies have scaled down/made sacrifices in the last 2-3 years, but having saved the company over a £billion in 18 months , they are now trying the impossible with the cabin crew and trying to enforce ludicrous crew reductions, (having had 2 'waves' of reductions in crew complements already).
I know what you are saying, but they are stressing the hell out of some of these guys .
BrightonGirl, as far as i know, there has been no mass find of crew with CR's as yet ( I have yet to hear of 1 case!) ,and it appears that the major causes of crew shortage are the amout of crew released on Unpaid leave/temp part time (when the 8-10 flights/ routes weren't dropped in relation) , high resignation levels due morale, and some crew long-term illness.
And SLF3 , there is/was a contingency plan laid in place for up 2 crew in First on certain routes, but the problem may also lie in the fact that only so many are trained for this service.
Oh,and Cumulo-granite,as far as i understand it , ALL temporary part-time crew are returning next month (OCT)to make up the shortages.They were given a period of notice, but some rushed back as they had run out of money!
Alot of people have left BA this summer, the kind of people who are the best, and you thought would never leave, sadly though they have had enough,and have gone agains't their will, in most cases.
Darkstar, good post too.
Norodnik, you maybe a little naive in thinking its not that bad at BA, if you were there you may think very differently.
Of course many companies have scaled down/made sacrifices in the last 2-3 years, but having saved the company over a £billion in 18 months , they are now trying the impossible with the cabin crew and trying to enforce ludicrous crew reductions, (having had 2 'waves' of reductions in crew complements already).
I know what you are saying, but they are stressing the hell out of some of these guys .
BrightonGirl, as far as i know, there has been no mass find of crew with CR's as yet ( I have yet to hear of 1 case!) ,and it appears that the major causes of crew shortage are the amout of crew released on Unpaid leave/temp part time (when the 8-10 flights/ routes weren't dropped in relation) , high resignation levels due morale, and some crew long-term illness.
And SLF3 , there is/was a contingency plan laid in place for up 2 crew in First on certain routes, but the problem may also lie in the fact that only so many are trained for this service.
Oh,and Cumulo-granite,as far as i understand it , ALL temporary part-time crew are returning next month (OCT)to make up the shortages.They were given a period of notice, but some rushed back as they had run out of money!
Last edited by Anti-ice; 26th Sep 2003 at 17:37.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This and other recent BA items display the same thread. Too many BA folk see themselves in some sort of cocoon in which they have a right to ignore the commercial realities of the world. These are not cooked up by a nasty BA management bent on doing down its staff,- the majority work hard for average rewards. Certainly few are fat cats and on average probably earn something in line with a middle ranking First Officers total package.
All businesses, not just BA, not just airlines ,are facing constant downward pressures on their margins thanks to increasing competition and -rightly,- ever more demanding customers who are not interested in protecting anyones pay packets or lifestyles. When customers themselves it is unlikely that BAs staff behave any differently.
The issue now for its staff is the collective will to survive and make BA the customers first choice. This isnt done by management. Its done by each and every one making BA a pleasant company to fly with. If the ambience isnt good they will just walk away and without the revenue the company will join Pan Am etc as history.
All businesses, not just BA, not just airlines ,are facing constant downward pressures on their margins thanks to increasing competition and -rightly,- ever more demanding customers who are not interested in protecting anyones pay packets or lifestyles. When customers themselves it is unlikely that BAs staff behave any differently.
The issue now for its staff is the collective will to survive and make BA the customers first choice. This isnt done by management. Its done by each and every one making BA a pleasant company to fly with. If the ambience isnt good they will just walk away and without the revenue the company will join Pan Am etc as history.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes Skylion, of course you are right , all the BA staff refused to comply with the measures that have just saved the company over a £1billion , beacuse they were so busy inside their selfmade cocoon
(FYI all frontline staff (except the pilots ) have yet to see any of the 3% payrise promised 2 years ago).
And the staff under some very challenging circumstances, have maintained and even improved on the customer satisfaction surveys despite losing 12,000 heads in the business response scheme.
So , No, there are some people like the ones you describe, but the majority are harddworking, selfless, and have gone out of their way to protect the customers best interests , and of course the airline.
(FYI all frontline staff (except the pilots ) have yet to see any of the 3% payrise promised 2 years ago).
And the staff under some very challenging circumstances, have maintained and even improved on the customer satisfaction surveys despite losing 12,000 heads in the business response scheme.
So , No, there are some people like the ones you describe, but the majority are harddworking, selfless, and have gone out of their way to protect the customers best interests , and of course the airline.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: IOM & GLA
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SLF3....there are 3 cabin crew allocated to the F cabin on the 777s & 747s.......however when the load in F goes down to 8 pax or below automatically works elsewhere to cover previous crew reductions imposed after 9/11 (normally the economy cabin).
I've just worked a trip involving 4 sectors across the atlantic as a Purser in the F cabin & on 3 of the sectors there were only 2 of us working the cabin. Due to the nature of the a la carte service offered it can be very quiet with 14 pax up there or extremely busy with just 6 pax, so whilst taking away the 3rd crew member as proposed would not always affect the service to pax BA can still not afford to mess around with their highest paying customers.
I've just worked a trip involving 4 sectors across the atlantic as a Purser in the F cabin & on 3 of the sectors there were only 2 of us working the cabin. Due to the nature of the a la carte service offered it can be very quiet with 14 pax up there or extremely busy with just 6 pax, so whilst taking away the 3rd crew member as proposed would not always affect the service to pax BA can still not afford to mess around with their highest paying customers.